Pages as Moon Phases

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

AngelAstro	11 Jul 2004
Hi all. I'm fairly new here and so I hope I'm not repeating something that has already been discussed. I know there has been many threads about the Court Cards and their reference to the Zodiac signs. However, in one post I saw someone had mentioned that the Pages can be linked to the Moon Phases as follows: New Moon - Page of Pentacles Waxing Moon - Page of Wands Full Moon - Page of Cups Waning Moon - Page of Swords This does seem to make sense to me and I'm just wondering if anyone uses this or knows much about where the idea came from. I'm studying Astrology so I find it quite helpful to make links like this. I'd value any comments or feedback. Thanks AngelAstro

Fulgour	23 Jul 2004
When I first started studying Tarot, the Pages were defined as Messengers... fine, Ok ~ but aren't all the cards messengers? And then I began to run into every possible definition imaginable, with a lot of very creative thought being shown, but little agreement. Basically, there are 16 Court Cards but only 12 Signs of the Zodiac. So where do the Pages fit in? Every seeming solution created a contadiction somewhere in the overall system or arrangement. I began to refer to them as my Orphans of the Tarot ~ secure but still somehow seeking. A lot of time went by, and I tried everything from Mandalas to elemental yin yang crossovers. The Moon Phases came as naturally as you might imagine, they were simply there. The modern Zodiac often overlooks its Lunar roots. By now you may have read other posts by me on this subject, but here we are now ~ and for me, my orphans have finally come home.

Fulgour	23 Jul 2004
Many, I'm sure very many people have already long ago found that there is a most appropriate connection in the Tarot between the Pages and the four main phases of the Moon. The Irongwing Tarot, due out this coming autumn will energetically feature this relationship. My experience though, has been that books I have read do not consider it among the many wondrous and original interpretations available. I've also come to associate the Pages with The High Priestess, as she would subtly govern the energies of each Moon phase. Autumn's Waning Moon, The Page of Swords, loosening, giving, ebbing. Winter's New Moon, The Page of Pentacles, original, fresh and unbounded. Spring's Waxing Moon, The Page of Wands, awakening, gathering, becoming. Summer's Full Moon, The Page of Cups, generous, strong, and fulfilled. The High Priestess is within each one of them, and among them always.

smleite	23 Jul 2004
I find this to be another valuable and insightful way of understanding these cards, together with others, traditionally used or not, that might come along when we study the Tarot. But the Court cards have an obvious connection to four-phased systems, and the lunar cycles have to be seriously regarded here. It is very interesting to find this “sub-system” of 16 cards in the Tarot, since (as many times stressed in other threads) that means 4 x 4; here, a symbolic system of base four, the same also present in so many Majors (and The World presents a wonderful depiction of it), is magnified (but also diluted) when the four suits unfold in 16 aspects.

Fulgour	23 Jul 2004
Tarot seems always to present just enough of a system to take you so far. I think this is because it is genuinely based on very real things, rather than abstractions or concepts. We are led up to a point and then must move beyond, to expand our view to encompass the greater whole. XXI The World may be seen as part of a Triad, with XIII and The Magician. 'Sin Mem Aleph as Fire Water Air signifying Soul Body Mind. Here it is The Moon that completes the 4-fold creation, as the embodiment of Earth seen by its exaltation in Taurus, the only fixed sign with a traditional exaltation. If you consider that The High Priestess is universally designated as the Moon, and yet there is card XVIII called The Moon, you can begin to see how we are being asked to do much more than simply recognize their names.

Shade	23 Jul 2004
This was done similary in theWitchy Tarot, except it was the knights not the pages who were linked to the moons.

Fulgour	27 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Shade This was done similary in theWitchy Tarot, except it was the knights not the pages who were linked to the moons. Knights shown on horseback may be the newer of the 16 Court Cards. They seem to rank up there with Kings and Queens though, above Squires. Jack, Fante, Valet... Pages probably don't have a place in the 12 Zodiac signs.

Flavio	29 Jul 2004
When it comes to Court cards I have lots of trouble, my question will let you know how clueless I am... what's the use to link the pages to Moon phases? 1.- To give them a place in the Zodiac? 2.- Is part of some system for time prediction? ("the news you are waiting will be received by the next full moon") 3.- Use as significator according to the part of the month in which the reading is done? Thank you for your comments (please do not be mean with me :D)

Fulgour	29 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Flavio ... what's the use to link the pages to Moon phases? In its 12 House tour of the Zodiac the Sun may be cleary noted inhabiting each of the Signs. These are the easily identifiable Court Cards: Kings, Queens, Knights. But with the four Pages, there has always been a question of placement. They can't be the four elements since those are the Aces, and the solstices and equinoxes come under the governance of the Cardinal signs. In keeping with the logic of the Sun Signs, we may now see the Pages as the embodiment of the 4 Phases or 4 Quarters of the Moon. And it fits. The interpretation of their meaning as such, is the same as with the others: It's all up to you to decide.

Penelope	30 Jul 2004
I have a dozen books and none of them agree on the Pages. In one they get dubbed as "Earth" and then its all simply: Fire of Earth Water of Earth Air of Earth Earth of Earth Isn't "Earth of Earth" the Ace of Pentacles?

smleite	30 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Fulgour I've also come to associate the Pages with The High Priestess, as she would subtly govern the energies of each Moon phase. I know nothing about the connection established between the Kings, Queens and Knights to the houses toured by the Sun (the astrological Signs). But I can’t help wandering why not the Queens as Moon phases. Not only superficially, due to the fact that the “Eternal Feminine” is traditionally linked to the Moon, but also because it would match the Triple Goddess traditions – and because, for me, the Queens are subordinated to the archetypical figure of The Papess, maybe even as “her” multiple aspects, or ways of manifesting in matter. The Queen of Cups would correspond to the full moon (and, in Marseilles depictions, she holds a sphere-like cup), the Queen of Pentacles to the new moon, full of potentiality, the Queen of Spades to the waning moon (and the Marseilles curved spades can relate to this too), and the Queen of Wands to the crescent moon. This is an interrogation, more then an assertion– and anyway, as Fulgour said, it’s all up to us to decide. Silvia

Fulgour	30 Aug 2004
There does seem to be an elemental energy that flows from The High Priestess to The Pages and with The Queens... There is a Full Moon in Pisces tonight, and it's sooo beautiful!

Thirteen	30 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by smleite But I can’t help wandering why not the Queens as Moon phases. Not only superficially, due to the fact that the “Eternal Feminine” is traditionally linked to the Moon Ah, but in certain decks (Thoth for example) the Pages are actually princesses and thus part of that eternal feminine. If I were creating the "rules" on this (and I don't expect anyone to let me because I'd just complicate matters), I'd actually have the following: Waxing Crescent (Probably Princess of Wands) Waxing Half (probably Princess of Cups) Waning Half (Probably Princess of Pentacles) Waning Crescent (Probably Princess of Swords) This because the princesses work as the "chaste" aspects of the moon, waxing or waning. The Queens, mature, fertile women, would be stand for various the Full Moons on or near Spring Equinox, Summer Solstice, Fall Equinox and Winter Solstice. I agree that the HPS is all phases, but I think she, alone should stand for the New or Dark moon, because in Quabala it is she who helps travelers across the abyss, the dark area. But that's just me.

Fulgour	30 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen Ah, but in certain decks (Thoth for example) the Pages are actually princesses... I do actually consider the Pages to be young women, without a bit of concern for the historical iconography of Knavish Valets. But the Thoth Princesses, by the pronunciation of the edicts of The Hermetic Order Golden Dawn, signify: " The Four Parts of the Celestial Heavens which lie around the North Pole. " After that, it only gets more and more complicated!

The Pages as Moon Phases thread was originally posted on 11 Jul 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.