Inside the mind of a newbie

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Aug 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

ReverendDan	24 Aug 2004
Hi - I'm afraid I'm doing a "cry for reassurance" thing here. I've started learning the meanings of the Wands as this is where the book I'm working from begins, but I've been reading the meanings from the book, the LWB for my deck, and Thirteen's descriptions. I've now run through the suit a couple of times with the cards in front of me and what I'm now doing is going through card by card and trying to figure out how to "amalgamate" the different meanings into something I can identify with. I know that there are no "rights" and "wrongs" as such, but I am very new to this, and I'd just like to check that I'm not getting the wrong end of the stick (no pun intended!) or missing something fundamental, especially as I'm working with plain pip cards for the Minors. I've done the Ace and Two of Staves so far, and this is what I've ended up with; Ace of Wands/Staves/Rods: Upright/Constructive - A rush of energy and drive towards a new goal. The start of a journey. Faith in success. Untried determination. Reversed/Destructive - Misplaced or directionless enthusiasm. To be in love with an idea to the exclusion of reality. A hope which is easily shattered. Fire, Power, Vision, Hope, Determination, Fertility, Virility You set out on your Quest with only a staff to accompany you. As the rising sun shines its first light upon you, you feel a sudden rush of excitement and raise your staff to the heavens, letting out a wordless yell of joy and determination. Something that feels this right cannot possibly go wrong! Two of Wands/Staves/Rods Upright/Constructive - Hard work brings a reward, and with it comes a choice. No answer is wrong in itself. Chose one path or the other, or even both. Each has benefits and consequences. Trust your instincts to find the right path. Reversed/Destructive - A flawed effort, either in method or in result. Gain through dishonest or brutal means. Demanding rather than earning. Failure of an endeavour, loss without gain. Indecision. Regret for a decision made. Fire, Reward, Choice, Effort, Instinct You help a passing merchant lever his cart's wheel out of a rut, using your staff. As a reward, the merchant gives you his own walking stick. Expensive and well-made, it bears little resemblance to your crude wooden staff, and you gladly accept it. As the merchant rolls off into the distance you decide to keep both for now, and continue on your way.

MeeWah	24 Aug 2004
ReverendDan: Welcome to Using Tarot Cards (& to Aeclectic Tarot in general)! Off to a stupendous beginning, based on your detailed insights. Do keep them coming--we all can learn from them.

Little Baron	24 Aug 2004
Hey Dan It seems like you are making a great start to me; it also seems that the wands were a good suit to start with as you are approaching the tarot with the fire and excitement of that ace. You have captured some good traditional meanings and used your insight to uncover some more personal ideas about the cards, which is great. Is it the Handl you are using? I don't know that deck so well but am currently studying the Grimaud Marseilles which has non-scenic pips. I started with scenic minors, but now that I am looking at the non-scenic, am learning a different approach, which is both exciting and opening up a whole lot of new ideas for the minors. Keep going with the suit; as MeeWah says, keep them coming. I look forward to discussing both of our discoveries along the way. Best wishes and welcome to AT. Yaboot

morandia	24 Aug 2004
keep it up!! I"m working on wands also, but I started with the 10 and am working my way downward. I"d love to see what else you come up with!!!

Thirteen	25 Aug 2004
I think you're doing a great job, too. Really excellent. My one bit of advice would be this: Unless you're really into the reverals, save them for later. Think of yourself as a Freshman, starting to learn, getting to know the landscape. Reversals is when you get to Junior or Senior years. It's when you know how to read a map, so now you can turn it upside down and learn to recognize it that way, too. Trust me: Reversals are SO much easier once you've gotten to really know all the cards upright. When they're feeling good, you've a handle on them and you don't have to chew on your lip trying to remember...."What's the 5 of wands mean again...?" That's when you want to take up the gauntlet of reverals. Or not. There are plenty of posts and discussions on reverals, whether to use them at all, whether they're necessary. That's up to you in the end. But it's faster and easier to learn 78 meanings (at first) rather than 156 meanings. In short--don't rush things. Don't try to learn it all at once. Right now, just getting to know the upright cards is your job. Then you can move onto small spreads, then larger ones, then reversals.... Did I mention that once you start learning tarot you never stop? :D Have fun and welcome to the wonderful world of Tarot and Aeclectic!

Eco74	25 Aug 2004
ReverendDan, That is some first class work if ever I saw it... I've been thinking about how to structure my own deckstudies and I'm boldly going to take your example straight off. Just need the right notebook before I start scribbling. :)

ReverendDan	27 Aug 2004
Wow... consider me reassured! Thanks to all of you for the support right when I needed it, although Meewah I have a sneaking suspicion I might be able to learn more from you than thee from me =) I do really like the Ace of Wands, Yaboot (good call) - it feels like a really energetic card, but maybe with a hint of naivete. Not unlike myself! I'm using my dad's Prediction Tarot deck at the moment to learn the basics - Haindl is on my "to buy" list once I've got the basic meanings in my head (so another decade or so then?). Having the non-scenic pips is prooving tricky but fun as I have to do the creative visualisation to get the card meanings set in my mind. I enjoy doing it (it's really nice to enjoy learning something again!) but they don't always flow. Good luck with the Wands morandia, hopefully we'll meet somewhere in the middle (if you're not already done - I tend to be a bit slow!) And special thanks to kind words from the Guru with the mostest, Thirteen! I really love what you wrote for the Major Arcana linking the Fool's journey from card to card, it really brought it to life for me. It also brought home how far I have to go personally, and The World seems a long, long way off right now (as it should be, I guess). I'm mainly using reversals because the LWB and the book I'm working from uses them, but you're right, I think once I've got the standard meanings down they should come more easily. I was using my imagery to clue me in on them, so with the ace my young wanderer would be so caught in the moment that they either don't move or wander off in the completely wrong direction. With the two I had either their staff breaking as they try and lever out the wheel, or managing to get the cart out but then clubbing the merchant over the head and nicking his cart! (not exactly traditional symbolism...) Nice to know I've inspired you Eco74, I'm currently writing in the remains of an old notebook I used for my Oceanography degree. Technically that could be bad symbolism as I dropped out halfway through but I'm hoping to turn it on it's head and use it as a reminder to keep going. The only trouble I've found with my method is where there's a substantial difference in the interpretation its quite difficult to unify them, especially when coming up with an image or scenario for it - I just got properly stuck on the 3 but finally got it down, so all being well that and the four (which seems a bit more forthcoming) will be up tonight. Anyway, I'd better go to work!!

Moongold	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen Trust me : Reversals are SO much easier once you've gotten to really know all the cards upright. When they're feeling good, you've a handle on them and you don't have to chew on your lip trying to remember...."What's the 5 of wands mean again...?" That's when you want to take up the gauntlet of reverals. Hi Reverend Dan ~ I agree with Thirteen about this. You never stop seeing new things in the cards, and it was a delight for me to read what you had written. I look forward to your first readings. All the best :) Moongold

ReverendDan	30 Aug 2004
... but that's typical of me. Three of Wands - The dream begins to take shape. Collaboration yields results. Faith and determination proove well-founded and stable. Circumstances are favourable to sucess. Fire, Results, Assistance, Progress, Reassurance You meet a fellow traveller in the city who turns out to be on a similar quest to your own. Together you have enough money to secure a cabin on a ship to your shared desitination. As luck would have it, there is a ship ready to wiegh anchor just as you arrive, and you are underway quicker than you had though possible. (NB - I read a thread about the problem of differentiating between the two and the three of Wands, as in some definitions both deal with gain/results. The way I've got my head round it is having Two relating to gain that is incidental to the querents goals - helpful, but not directly related - wheras I think of the Three as being genuine progress along their chosen path) Four of Wands - A goal is reached, and the foundations are laid for a new beginning. A time of peace and stability, a chance for celebration. A home or relationship is well-established. Doubts vanish and a moment of certainty is granted. Fire, Completion, Stability, Satisfaction, Celebration You won! Your quest was a success, and you use the physical and mental riches you gained to establish yourself in a new home. You look at your lover and smile, remembering how they were once a complete stranger who just happened to be heading in the same direction. With the completion of your once all-consuming quest, you now realise it is only the beginning, and not the end at all. But that is a thought for later, and for now you turn hand in hand to the sun, and bask in the mid-morning light.

ReverendDan	30 Aug 2004
For the time being I'll leave these be as suggested (although I think I can feel them wriggling around at the back of my head). If nothing else it'll give me a chance to read through the threads on them and work out whether I want to use them or not. I get the feeling I will, but that still leaves me to figure out the how. At the moment I'm thinking of it as the energy (or "insert random term here"!) of the card misfiring. The clearest example I've been able to give myself is The Star, which seems to be about finding a guiding light in the midst of darkness. Upright I would expect that this light will lead the querent on to their hope, wheras reversed I would worry that it might turn out to be the headlamp of an oncoming train. Allthough I suppose even then there's always the chance to dodge aside at the last moment and grab a lift... Many thanks for the well-wishing, Moongold! I'm afraid you might have to wait for a while for my readings at the rate I'm going, though!

Trogon	31 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ReverendDan I do really like the Ace of Wands, Yaboot (good call) - it feels like a really energetic card, but maybe with a hint of naivete. Not unlike myself! I'm using my dad's Prediction Tarot deck at the moment to learn the basics - Haindl is on my "to buy" list once I've got the basic meanings in my head (so another decade or so then?). Having the non-scenic pips is prooving tricky but fun as I have to do the creative visualisation to get the card meanings set in my mind. I enjoy doing it (it's really nice to enjoy learning something again!) but they don't always flow. ReverendDan... as others have already observed... you're off to a great start. Sounds like you're doing it "right" alright! :D And yes, there is some level of naivete in that Ace of Wands... in all the Aces I believe. Many times, when we are right at the beginning of things, we might not see all the pitfalls, tripups and other hazards that might be heading our way. Think of that first burst of love (Ace of Cups)... do we see the disagreements that are coming? Yet all long-term relationships have some disagreemtns along the way, yes? But when we first fall in love we can't even consider the possibility of them. Perhaps it's the same with with the energy and enthusiasm one feels when one discovers Tarot for the first time. "Wow... this is great! I lay out these cards and the meanings in this Little White Book are just spot on!" Then... a few months, or a few years down the road... "wow... there is just so much to learn here... how will I ever memorize all these meanings?" At the beginning, all we could see was the excitement of learning something new, opening our minds to new possibilities and new horizions. We couldn't see the hours and hours of study... the many, many readings we would have to do before we got "good" at it. Not everyone goes through all of that of course, this is a broad generalization (though based on personal experience ... :rolleyes: ) But... the Tarot is all about human experience and life, isn't it? Lay the images of your own experiences over the images of those Tarot cards and their meanings... personalize the ideas that are presented by those cards. Make them your own. Let them make you smile, laugh, cry, remember and feel. That's... well, that's one way to do it, isn't it? ;) Also... do like 13 said... don't try to learn reversals right off. The do make for a much steeper learning curve. ;) I do note that you've been using the Prediction Tarot. Now, while you're studying the Wands, that will work and it allows for the possibility of using reversals, as does the suit of cups. But the Swords can't be reversed (except the Ace) and neither can the coins. I believe, for the most part, that "pip" cards really aren't meant to be read reversed. You've got to be pretty intuitive to figure out whether the card is meant (in a particular reading) to be interpreted in a more positive or less positive manner. This would be based on the position of the card in the reading and the other cards around it as well as the general flow of the reading. Sorry for rambling... I seem to be doing that quite a bit tonight. :D

Shalott	31 Aug 2004
Wow, you are doing great! When i was new, at age 13, I was really flying blind. LOL. I'm not familiar with the prediction deck - does it have people on the minors? If so, i have a couple of books I can recommend: Learning Tarot reversals by Joan Bunning and The Complete idiot's Guide to Tarot and Fortune Telling by Arlene Tognetti and Lis Lenard. I really like the later's approach, and find it still applicable even though, like Yaboot, I've recently converted to Marseille. (Although I think he still uses other decks.) Basically, their approach is to look at what the person is holding, and what surrounds the person, and it fall from them upside down, if so, it's falling away from the meaning of the card, like in the 9 of Swords (Rider-Waite-Smith) the swords would represent the figure's depression, but reversed, those troubles are falling away, leaving her, she can start to hope again. (So for non-peopled pips, I just have to remove the "person."Combined with the different system.) I wrote up a thing on the Old English deck's minors using this apporach, if you want, click my "website" link at the bottom of this post, it may help you apply it to your deck, if that's how you wanna do things. ;) Welcome, in no time you'll be teaching others, I have no doubt!

Thirteen	31 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Shalott Basically, their approach is to look at what the person is holding, and what surrounds the person, and it fall from them upside down, if so, it's falling away from the meaning of the card, like in the 9 of Swords (Rider-Waite-Smith) the swords would represent the figure's depression, but reversed, those troubles are falling away That's an unusual approach for reversals. Usually a "downer" card doesn't get better reversed. Typically, it gets worse. I can see where the implication would be that you have the sky, down below, therefore the swords fall away--as we presume they would right out of the back of the 10/Swords guy, for example. But most interpetations of reversed cards have it that if you turn the guy upside-down, he's now laying on the sword points about sink right down on all of them, to the hilt. He's going to be skewered even worse ;) Not saying this approach is wrong, just atypical.

Shalott	31 Aug 2004
Well, that's the approach these guys use, and the first one I learned. It's worked for me, and seems to make sense! (But if it's atypical, that explains why I've read so many posts on reversals around here and wound up totally baffled...)

TemperanceAngel	01 Sep 2004
Interesting, I personally wouldn't see the Nine of Swords as depression at all. I know this is off thread, but I quite often see the RWS Nine of Swords as a healing/nurturing card. Consider the figure in bed, we all like to be somewhere comforting when we need to release. Crying is a great release. The blanket that is covering the person has all the astrological signs on....protected by the Universe. It would also depend on what card this was in combo with, and if the client needed to ease up on themselves a bit....meaning not being so hard on themselves. Apologies again for hijacking the thread!

Shalott	01 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by TemperanceAngel Interesting, I personally wouldn't see the Nine of Swords as depression at all. I know this is off thread, but I quite often see the RWS Nine of Swords as a healing/nurturing card. Consider the figure in bed, we all like to be somewhere comforting when we need to release. Crying is a great release. The blanket that is covering the person has all the astrological signs on....protected by the Universe. It would also depend on what card this was in combo with, and if the client needed to ease up on themselves a bit....meaning not being so hard on themselves. Apologies again for hijacking the thread! Perhaps we're all "atypical!" Which is probably something worthwhile for Reverend Dan to see...(Hi, RevDan, not meaning to talk like you're not here!)

ReverendDan	02 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Shalott Perhaps we're all "atypical!" Which is probably something worthwhile for Reverend Dan to see...(Hi, RevDan, not meaning to talk like you're not here!) And thus God did say "Let there be as many ways of reading the Tarot as there are stars in the sky", and so it was. And he didst allow himself a brief snigger as he moved on to something else, thinking "That'll fox 'em...". No problem Shalott (and hijack away Temeperance Angel) - it's making for interesting reading so keep going (especially as I'm going to be at least another day before I've got the 5 and 6 relatively straight in my head) - and that is a really appealing way of doing reversals. Just to confuse me a little bit more. Maybe someone should start a thread and try and get 78 different meanings for the same card! Quote: Originally posted by Trogon I believe, for the most part, that "pip" cards really aren't meant to be read reversed. You've got to be pretty intuitive to figure out whether the card is meant (in a particular reading) to be interpreted in a more positive or less positive manner. This would be based on the position of the card in the reading and the other cards around it as well as the general flow of the reading. I'm starting to see the hours and hours of study now! Actually doing readings seems like a very distant future, but it's just nice to have my brain set to "active" for once so I'm not complaining. I suppose I could ask the Tarot how long it's likely to be but I wouldn't understand the answer! BTW the LWB (wow, I sound like some kind of 1337 haXXor of tEh tAroT...) for the Prediction Tarot does give reversed meanings for the Swords and Coins - I think the cheat is that the Roman Numeral is positioned at the top of the card. I agree that's a bit tenuous when the symbol itself is the same either way up but no matter! ("It is ze power of Mind over Matter: I don't mind and you don't matter!" - Psycho the Magnificent)

Shalott	02 Sep 2004
I'm a big fan of reversals. I did use them when I started reading - BUT - I was using Marseille-type majors only! Hadn't even heard of minors back then, so it still led to less stuff overall to learn. If I'd had - or known about - all the resources that are out there now, I don't think I would have waited to learn them. I think I may be in the minority here. Reversals seem to have fallen out of favor, and can also be rather contraversial because ppl seem to love them or hate them - not a whole lot of: "eh, they're OK." LOL But ultimately, your style of reading is UP TO YOU. And it sounds like you have a really good handle on it so far!

Eco74	03 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ReverendDan And thus God did say "Let there be as many ways of reading the Tarot as there are stars in the sky", and so it was. And he didst allow himself a brief snigger as he moved on to something else, thinking "That'll fox 'em...". LOL I LOVE that comment Rev. :D

The Inside the mind of a newbie thread was originally posted on 24 Aug 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.