Reversals - what do *you* think?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Sep 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

blackroseivy	14 Sep 2004
Hi, all! In reading, I have had reversals to deal with for a long time now; however, they *still* give me a headache. They still confuse me to this day. I am wondering what everyone thinks of this much-discussed topic. I try to take them in context with the rest of the cards, but it's still difficult. Generally, I see them as having a negative quality, unless the card is negative, but then the card is still negative only less so. What do you think? :confused:

contrascarpe	14 Sep 2004
I used to get hung up on them, but I now ignore them completely. To me, the card is just the gateway to how the reading will progress - almost makes me believe that I will be able to someday do a reading with a Marseilles deck :) Dan

mercenary30	14 Sep 2004
Although I do not use reversals on purpose, if a card actually shows up that way, I will keep it. All cards have positive and negative aspects to them. I will try to take that into context with the cards surrounding them, that lets the overall reading determine which way to interpret the card. I believe the Golden Dawn description of this fits best. They use the term dignified. So if the cards support each other (like suits, similar themes, ect.), they are well dignified, and if the card is surrounded by elemental opposites or generally negative cards, than it would be poorly dignified and the "reversed" meaning should be considered.

blackroseivy	14 Sep 2004
Well, to me, it gives a more nuanced reading to use reversals. I need that book, "The Complete Book of Tarot Reversals"!

Centaur	14 Sep 2004
I have the book, The Complete Book of Tarot Reversals, by Greer, and I would thoroughly recommend it. I was reversal-phobic until I read that book. And now, after some readings, and practice, I feel quite comfortable with them. Yes... there are some cards which, whilst reversed still stump me and require a little extra effort on my part. But, for the most part, I feel that the Greer book has been a very welcome addition in my collection of tarot information. BUT... At times, I feel as though I do not want to use reversals, and read without them. At these times, I judge any negativity or reversed interpretation on the basis of the surrounding cards. I liked what Mercenary said with regards to the whole notion of dignities, in that respect. Not to mention the fact that with some decks, for instance the Thoth, I never use reversals in any instance!! In short, I just use whatever I feel comfortable with at any given time. LOL.

Gyda	14 Sep 2004
I've always used reversed cards when I read. I don't see them as negative. I see them as a warning in some cases or as a caution in other depending on the card where it is and what the general theme of the reading is. Take last night for example I was randomly pulling cards and I pulled the ace of Disks (penticles in some decks). Representing the negative side of wealth. I would see this as a warning against letting materialism take over and well as a financial loss occuring, warning them to be more responsible with money and wach that they don't get to greedy as it leads to down fall.

lunakasha	14 Sep 2004
I don't use reversals either....just my own preference, and I think each reader should go with whatever he or she is comfortable with in that respect. Like merc said, I believe all cards have both positive and negative aspects to them...I look at the cards individually and in relation to each other to determine whether the "upright" or "reversed" meaning is more appropriate for that particular reading. :) Luna

Flavio	14 Sep 2004
Depending on my mood I use reversals, not following book interpretations but the methods for reading reversals foun at Tarotmoon. That article help me a lot and the proposed methods work very well for me. I suggest you take a look ;)

Original Destiny	14 Sep 2004
I used to use reversals but now I only work with the cards upright. it really is a matter of personal preference, go with what you feel is right for you. For me i find there is enough in the imagery with out having the added complication of the cards being upside down

all78degrees	14 Sep 2004
I like reversals, though the truth is that I don't use them much. Mostly this is because either I forget to do them or I feel that reading wouldn't be enhanced by using them. As for the double negative thing you could see them as inner things that need doing and uprights as outer things. Thats the most common one for me. gav. manandcards.co.uk coming soon.

Fulgour	14 Sep 2004
To me the cards just never looked right upside down, but I know many readers who actually rely on reversals. They understand them, and it all makes perfect sense. I guess it's like lace-ups versus loafers ~ if the shoe fits...

Ace	14 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by danubhe Hi, all! In reading, I have had reversals to deal with for a long time now; however, they *still* give me a headache. They still confuse me to this day. Generally, I see them as having a negative quality, unless the card is negative, but then the card is still negative only less so. What do you think? :confused: Try reading them as NOT... the upright meaning. If it means good things up right, then the Rx is Not.. that good thing. If it means bad things up right (like say, 9 of Swords) then the Rx is not that Inot feeling scared, doomed, anxious or whatever the 9 of Swords means upright). It isn't perfect but it might help you get started. Or just make them all upright, not everyone reads reversals. Maybe you should just look at the card at the time of the reading and see what you feel right then. It may mean something totally new or more positive or more negative than ever before. That might be what is confusing you: you see a meaning that is not what the card is SUPPOSED to mean and can't make it relate to the information it is supplying.

pandora	14 Sep 2004
I do use reversals if they come up....sometimes. A question I have wanted to ask is........ what do you do with your cards after a reading with reversals? If someone wants to swirl the cards because they can not shuffle it is O.K. with me, any way they want to mix/shuffle and feel comfortable is fine by me and mine. So I do end up with reversed cards. Before a reading I always say in my mind if reversals will be noted/read or not, and I just flip them if it is a no. So after each reading I go thought the deck and right every one before I clear or do a new reading. Is this right or am I being really anal? I have always thought if a card is going to be reversed it should get that way with each reading if it needs to be. If you do reversals, do you right each card before you shuffle and do another reading? Learning so much here, thank you all Pandora

Mesara	15 Sep 2004
Ive always enjoyed reversals; for me it just adds a new dimension to readings and keeps things interesting and stimulating. After every reading, I simply gather the cards up, shuffle them 3 times (my lucky number I guess) with no regards to whether the cards are upright or not. But that is just me- If it makes you feel better to right your cards after every reading then do so; I really don't think it will affect the outcome one way or the other.

Moonbow*	15 Sep 2004
I have now found (after trying both ways) that the best way for me, is to see the card upright. Yes, I use reversals but I don't reverse the card. My readings are very much based on intuitiveness and this cannot be done when looking at a picture the wrong way up! I am open to all the meanings relevant to the card, together with my own feelings about the individual card and the spread as a whole, sometimes the reversed meaning is more appropriate to the spread. I think that using the text book meanings for reversals probably works well for some people, I know some very experienced readers that use them, but I have always found it too restricting for me.

Anna	15 Sep 2004
Quote: Yes, I use reversals but I don't reverse the card. Yes!! This is how I use reversals too Moonbow*. I used to read with cards upside down when I first began reading, but it just confussed me and I would end up getting frustrated and not being able to see anything. I decided that I would only read the cards upright...and this was fine for a few years. Then I bought and loved Mary Greer's book "Tarot Reversals", but as much as I loved her explorations into the range of meanings for each card, and the new dimension that this brought to my cards, I still ended up in mess when I turned them upside down! So now I try to read with the full range of meanings open to me, and I pay attention to how the spread looks, the combination of the cards and what my intuition is telling me. Some cards become very reversed in my interpritations even though they are physically completly upright. It seems to work for the time being.

Jewel-ry	15 Sep 2004
I hardly ever reverse cards on purpose although if they turn up that way then I look carefully at that card. That said, I don't read every card upright either. I think there is a whole spectrum of meanings for a card and I read within that spectrum. Some cards will be more concentrated one end and others more focused the other end. I don't think you have to turn the card to get a reversed meaning. I don't actually know any reversed meanings per se, the meanings just come to me. ~

Diana	15 Sep 2004
I only read with reversals. Upright cards are boring. (Is this a reversed post or not? That is the question.) You are all welcome to ignore this post. If you reverse yourselves you won't be able to read it anyway. I checked - I turned my head completely upside down and it is practically impossible to read what is on the screen.

Sulis	15 Sep 2004
I use reversals. I didn't for ages but I feel quite comfortable using them now. I wouldn't advise a beginner to use reversals - I think you should wait until you feel comfortable with upright cards before you even think about reversing them. I have Mary K Greer's book and find it quite helpful but I prefer to use James Ricklef's method; If a card comes up reversed, it's qualities are either present or potential but they might be: 1. Delayed 2. Diminished / diminishing 3. Underutilized 4. Internalized 5. Blocked Love Sulis xx

starhermit	15 Sep 2004
I use reversals, wouldn't be without them :) Having said that though, I have a rather 'messy' method of interpreting them. I use Sulis's methods as above (the James Ricklef style),but as to what quality does the card represents... that all depends on my gut feeling. Sometimes I even ignore the reversedness (is that a word? hehe) and read the cards as upright. Though that has only happened once, in a reading I did recently asking what actions I should take in a situation. All the cards were reversed and their reversed meanings would've been plain silly. So I just flipped them over and read them the upright way :)

Bean Feasa	15 Sep 2004
I like to use reversals, although, like most people, here I don't see them as 'opposite' or 'negative' meanings. When I see a reversed card I think of the card's energy as being distorted or weakened in some of the ways that Sulis mentioned. I also like Gail Fairfield's suggestion in 'Everyday Tarot' that reversals can deal more with the inner aspects of a card e.g. where upright cards in the suit of wands might mean how the self/spirit operates and interacts in the outer world, reversed wands might mean a person's own view of themselves or their own spiritual consciousness.

diane drizzy	15 Sep 2004
I never use reversals. First off I feel overwhelmed to do so. I also feel a reading doesn't run as smoothly. Being a perpetual student though I'll never say never! :D

Gyda	15 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by pandora If you do reversals, do you right each card before you shuffle and do another reading? Pandora I put them back as they are. I found in my own experience that it makes no difference if there are reversed cards in the deck before a reading because of the way I shuffle.

Ace	15 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I only read with reversals. Upright cards are boring. (Is this a reversed post or not? That is the question.) You are all welcome to ignore this post. If you reverse yourselves you won't be able to read it anyway. I checked - I turned my head completely upside down and it is practically impossible to read what is on the screen. Well, Salvadore Dali insisted that we should stand on our heads to get a new view of life, so why not see the World Rx-as an individual or long wolf perhaps! :D

Diana	15 Sep 2004
Ace: The Hanged Man takes on a whole new dimension when he is the only card with his feet on the ground.

Ace	15 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Ace: The Hanged Man takes on a whole new dimension when he is the only card with his feet on the ground. He-he! :P Actually, I tend to see Hanged Man Rx as finally getting his show on the road. HM upside up is looking at new ideas, or discussing them or saying, "please: go ahead" (sacrefice) but not DOING. Rx is Doing!

littlehermit	16 Sep 2004
I don't like reversing my Spiral deck - that purple cloud background isn't symmetrical from top to bottom, so even the slightest fanning of the deck, as I do sometimes, shows a jumble when some cards are reversed. (If Spiral weren't such a small deck to begin with, I'd consider getting a second copy of the deck and slicing the pictures entirely free of the borders a la Yaboot and Gardener!) Because of this (at least in part), I haven't really tackled reversals yet. I have another, more reversable deck, but I'm still getting to know it, and I'm still studying and thinking over what directions the reversals could take. (I don't like doing readings where I have to check books. I prefer to have all my reference material in my head when the cards are dealt.) I treated myself to Mary Greer's book for my birthday, and it's quite helpful... but it's a lot to take in! I think there are some decks that lend themselves more to reversals than others. The backgrounds and outer borders have to be perfectly symmetrical, for one thing. And I don't think that I shall be reversing Marseille cards (my next purchase) until I know those pips like the back of my hand. Maybe not even then. I'll have to see what the deck tells me. ObSilliness: I only stand on my head once a day, and that's only when I'm doing yoga regularly. Why should I ask my cards to do it more often than that? :D

blackroseivy	16 Sep 2004
Thanks, everyone, for your helpful shtuff!!! BTW: Diana, I know you *think* you're fuuuuuunnny!! :D Eeeeeeeee!!

Fulgour	16 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I only read with reversals. Upright cards are boring. I tried that for awhile, but kept getting reversed reversals upright.

blackroseivy	16 Sep 2004
Er...? :confused:

schuldich_sunde	18 Sep 2004
i don't use reverals. instead, if i feel a card applies more in a reversed meaning, then i'll go with it intuitively. i think it makes more sense that way.

Diana	18 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I only read with reversals. Upright cards are boring. What rubbish that Diana talks sometimes. Now this post is a serious one: I don't read upright nor reversed. I just read the cards. Punkt. And that is the honest truth. Cross my heart and all that.

blackroseivy	18 Sep 2004
I'll try & figure out if it really *is* serious this time!!!!!

Diana	18 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by danubhe I'll try & figure out if it really *is* serious this time!!!!! It's as serious as the Emperor.

Moongold	18 Sep 2004
At the moment I don't use reversals. I used to and I may go back to using them. I think there is enough information in the cards upright and I would trust my intuition if I thought there was a meaning that is sometimes attributed to reversals.

Ace	18 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I just read the cards. Punkt. And that is the honest truth. Cross my heart and all that. What you are saying and what works for some, is not to read reversed, but if the meaning is more negative or NOT usual, then it must be a Rx meaning. or vice versa.

blackroseivy	18 Sep 2004
I'm getting so that I can think that way, but it's tough! :)

Diana	20 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Ace What you are saying and what works for some, is not to read reversed, but if the meaning is more negative or NOT usual, then it must be a Rx meaning. or vice versa. Do you think that's what I'm saying? I dunno. I don't think so. I'm just saying that I prefer just to read the cards. One can also LISTEN to them first before reading them. And more important than anything: to listen to what your HEART tells you when you are listening and reading them. I actually am getting tired of all this endless chatter (not in this thread!! (don't get me wrong) - I mean, in general) about REVERSALS and NON-REVERSALS and UPRIGHT and UP-SIDE-DOWN cards. There are 76 cards. And each card probably has about one hundred million different meanings. I'm not going to even attempt to sort out which fifty hundred thousand are up-side-down and which fifty hundred thousand are reversed - only to find out that I've been wasting my time because there is maybe no such thing. And I reckon there are a lot of those meanings which are at 1 degree angle, 2 degree angle, 3 degree angle... ALL THE WAY TO 360 degrees. That would take too long. I have a life to live. So I just read the cards. Punkt. Makes it very simple. And the Tarot SHOULD be simple. Anyway, in every yin there is some yang. And vice-versa. No???????

Moongold	20 Sep 2004
Diana ~ I agree with you. :)

Fulgour	20 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana There are 76 cards. And each card probably has about one hundred million different meanings. Now I'm getting dizzy...

Moongold	20 Sep 2004
I would like to qualify my comments about reversals, although I essentially agree with Diana. My tarot reading over the two years of my own apprenticeship has become more intuitive and I am much more aware of the symbolism and stories in the cards. Somehow the images speak much more to me now. This is quite a delightful experience and privilege. So it is quite disconcerting to see a reversed card and have to interrupt the stream of consciousness to interpret it. It is as though someone is asking me to read a book upside down. As I progress in my development as a reader I may go back to using reversals but not right now. People need to do what suits them, and my own decision is no reflection on the preference or practice of anyone else. Many blessings ~ Moongold

Lee	20 Sep 2004
Oops, please delete.

Rusty Neon	20 Sep 2004
(delete)

Fulgour	20 Sep 2004
They say two negatives will make a positive, but two positives will never make a negative: "Yeah, right!"

Moongold	21 Sep 2004
The discussion is getting to deep for me now :D :D. Is there a particular meaning to <> ?

dawns_eve	21 Sep 2004
For now I have chosen not to read with reversals. I either turn the card or make sure the deck is upright.

Semiramis	21 Sep 2004
I've always used reversals, although I couldn't tell you exactly why - it just seemed to be right for me. I used to hate them and be afraid of them, but now I tend to look at them as not an entirely different meaning of the card, but the aspects of the card that are currently most relevant and that I should pay attention to. I have the book Learning the Tarot by Joan Bunning and although she doesn't give reversed meanings, she has a chapter on Reversed Cards that I found quite helpful. I think it's up the individual reader whether to use reversals or not. If it seems right to you and you gain more insights from your reading, great, but you do not have to feel forced to use them if you don't think they work for you. I would try to use them a couple of times and compare them to your readings with no reversals, and see what you think.

blackroseivy	21 Sep 2004
I have decided that the Viscontis are somehow better off without reversals, although I think that depends on the case; this was new to me, & felt very different. It also felt in some way a lot like cheating! :D I am used to reversals & feel that they are trying to tell me something particular, & dropping them out feels like I'm trying to avoid something. At the same time, I know only too well that "upside-down book" feeling!!! :joke: Ah well, it's all experience!

Ace	21 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Fulgour Now I'm getting dizzy... Especially since there are 78 cards not 76! but I do see Diana's point. I think I will try that: read all the cards upright and see if I can see which are sending messages (at that moment) that I would normally interpret as "upright meaning" and which are sending messages that I would usually interpret as Rx.

Diana	21 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Ace Especially since there are 78 cards not 76! Oh??? Darn... and all these years I've been reading with 76 cards. I wonder which ones I have not been reading with! Perhaps they are REVERSED cards? Or INVISIBLE cards? Should I start up a thread called: "Invisible cards - what do *you* think?" Lee also wrote to me to point out what he thought was a mistake on my part. Thanks Lee! :D *Diana wanders off very puzzled wondering which two cards she has yet to discover.* (Only kidding, guys! Only kidding!)

Nevada	21 Sep 2004
I pay less and less attention to them, though I do shuffle in a way that allows reversals, with most decks. (Not with Thoth, as I like those crosses all upright. :D ) They used to make me tense, just seeing them in a reading. But I'm much looser in my approach to them now, and I let the reading interpret without much ado over reversals, unless it's obvious to me that they're significant. When all or most cards in the spread are reversed, then I look at it as maybe a more internalized or private situation, as opposed to public or externalized. Or out of the ordinary, as when things in life suddenly flip around on you. If you're in a slump that flip can be a good thing. I also look at the picture in the card and its changed scene (if there is one) in a reversal. For instance, if you look at the 3 of Swords in the Crystal Tarot, you'll notice that when the card is upright, the fish is floating dead on the surface of the water. But when it's reversed the fish appears to be alive and well, swimming in the depths among those upside-down lilies. My favorite all-time reversal interpretation is a reading firemaiden did for someone, where she called the reversed Thoth 9 of Swords "dancing red chili peppers." With both uprights and reversals, there is no set negative or positive meaning. If you remember that, they won't bother you so much. Edited to add: I also like the Mary K. Greer book on reversals, though it's mainly geared toward RWS, and I'm not entirely happy with the court interpretations. Choice Centered Tarot by Gail Fairfield has some good material on reversals. Nevada

Moongold	21 Sep 2004
A couple of years ago I began a little bit of research into reversals. There was little material available and it was Lee who actually advised me that using reversed cards dated from the use of ordinary playing cards for divination. Mary Greer herself in "Tarot Reversals" accredits Etteilla/Alliette (1738 - 1791) with creating the concept of reversals. He also wrote a book on divination in which he explained the technique. According to Greer, Etteila originally used a version of a plying card deck called piquet which contained only 32 cards and he developed the concept of reversals to increase the number of interpretations which could be made. At some stage, Etteila also published his own Tarot deck, the Etteilla Tarot , in which he actually published the reversed meanings on the cards themselves. There are pictures of the deck in The Encyclopaedia of Tarot Volume 3 Greer goes on to point out that in our present times with the developing tendencies to use psychological and spiritual approaches in reading the tarot, the use of reversals has increased. All her excellent book on reversals does is sum up the many different approaches to this in one place. She herself acknowledges that there are many ways of using reversals and that it is a personal and intuitive matter as to whether and how one uses them. So there is perhaps no ultimate truth about this? Reversals simply seem to reflect a dynamically evolving Tarot. The Marseilles itself almost assuredly evolved from something else and one day we might find out exactly what it was. I will probably go back to using reversals one day, and I might, as I always have done, use them with some decks more than others. At the moment I'm simply concentrating on what comes with the upright meanings because I see and feel so much more now and want to let that gift develop. It is another joy of the Tarot that it does allow so many different and personal approaches, according to our own gifts and stages of development.

Ace	21 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Oh??? Darn... and all these years I've been reading with 76 cards. I wonder which ones I have not been reading with! Perhaps they are REVERSED cards? *Diana wanders off very puzzled wondering which two cards she has yet to discover.* (Only kidding, guys! Only kidding!) Well, now you know: you weren't working with a full deck! and yes, I am going to add this to the jokes thread!

blackroseivy	23 Sep 2004
Well, thanks all of you for such brilliant insights - links too! I am exploring the reversals as I feel that they hold significance for me. But I did one without them for the very first time, & felt how different it is. I will go on experimenting both ways. :D :D :D

The Reversals - what do *you* think? thread was originally posted on 14 Sep 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.