The Lovers

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Sep 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Tootsie	03 Sep 2004
Hello everyone. I have a question and am hoping you can enlighten me. I did look under the meanings section on this card but am still confused. I've always been under the impression that the Lovers card could indicate the possibility of affairs? I know the card speaks of trials or choices, and it also speaks of a deep true love, but I thought I read somewhere that it can be indicative of a love affair. Everything I've read on the search I did on under the meanings, spoke more of a pure love, soulmate type of thing, and the angel above both the man and woman. So, I ask you...is one of the meanings for this card infidelity? I use the RW deck. Thanks :)

Fulgour	03 Sep 2004
I'd be more concerned about the validity of the question. :rolleyes:

Tootsie	03 Sep 2004
LOL, I'll take that as a no?

Flavio	03 Sep 2004
Same card can mean different things for different readers, if during your practice and depending of surrounding cards, spread positions etc, you have seen The Lovers as infidelity then, that is part of the language you share with your deck, for example I had a personal reading where 10 of Cups showed me my father funeral, ask anyone and nobody would coincide in that meaning for the 10 of Cups. Going back to your question, from a conservative point of view if you compare The Lovers and the 2 of Cups as probability of an affair the 2 of Cups is has more chances to be affair, of course surrounding cards and spread are to be consider, in my opinion 2 of Cups by itself can not give you that information. Hope you found helpful this answer, let's see what the other say.

Ace	03 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tootsie So, I ask you...is one of the meanings for this card infidelity? I use the RW deck. In my usual direct and absolute way, I answer: it depends. :D I have never had it mean infidelity, (I am assuming you mean Lovers Rx) I would probably see it more as lack of communication, rather than unfaithfulness, but it depends (as always) on the situation.

feticeira	04 Sep 2004
Ace can you explain how The Lovers can stand for lack of communication?

Tootsie	04 Sep 2004
Thank you all for clarifying this card for me :)

Diana	04 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tootsie So, I ask you...is one of the meanings for this card infidelity? Absolutely. A love triangle. It would be important though not to read a card by itself in a case like this but to read it with the surrounding cards.

Ace	04 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by feticeira Ace can you explain how The Lovers can stand for lack of communication? Well, um, er, you are asking me to explain my feelings about a card??!?! :| well, this is the RWS deck, right? the woman is looking at the angel and the man is looking at the woman, right? well, if the man can't understand what the woman sees or the woman can't explain herself, it is miscommunication. (I am assuming the Lovers Rx.) BUT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, I SAY: it depends on the other cards at the time and if that is really the situation between the querent and his/her partner at the time. The cards only reflect reality, not what could be in the future. When you try to look to the future, it gets scarey since it COULD go wrong but it hasn't happened yet. If the querent asked: is my mate unfaithful? and the card pulled is Lovers Rx it could be infidelity. Or it could be lack of passion (the Lovers is passion more than love in most readings I do) or a lot of things. If the reader is the querent, she/he should look a thte LWB for the message. If the querent is somene other than the reader, the reader must stop and look carefully at the card and see what clues to the correct message it gives. It isn't always lack of communication, it isn't always lack of passion, it isn't always infidelity. BUt if you relax, forget about what it is SUPPOSED to mean, and just look, it will tell you what it does mean right now.

Lucretia Luna	04 Sep 2004
Hi, Tootsie! Like to support last bit by Ace: "if you relax, forget about what it is SUPPOSED to mean, and just look, it will tell you what it does mean right now." You mentioned having come across the affair idea in your reading, and I find trying to read as much as possible, from as many variable sources as poss, extremely interesting and helpful. But it is only really helpful when I can distill the info into knowledge I, personally, understand. This is why, in the end, the question has to be: What do The Lovers mean to you? This is likely to change over time, readings, circumstances, etc. but while it's scary - and I don't always take my own advice - go with your gut instinct at the time. Explore these options found from others and then trust yourself - the more you have questioned and sought answers, the more you will have to work on, but it is you doing the work and it will be you who knows the answer, in situ. Hope this is more helpful than preachy! Didn't mean to be, but can get a bit intense on one of my favourite subjects. :D So - final advice: have fun! Lu

Tootsie	04 Sep 2004
hmmmm...so, Diana then agrees it can mean a love triangle. And, Ace and Lucretia Luna feel it can mean whatever the card says to me, including miscommunication if rx, and/or the possibility of infidelity? Bottom line, as you guys have said, is that the cards will let you know, if you interpret them correctly, what the message is they are trying to get across. I've done some readings for people that I don't know and didn't know of their personal situations. When this card would come up, I'd ask them if there was someone else in the picture and they were shocked and would tell me there was. Either they were the lover, or they were the partner..but, seems that card gives me strong messages when this situation is present. Thanks again everyone.

Ace	04 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tootsie Bottom line, as you guys have said, is that the cards will let you know, if you interpret them correctly, what the message is they are trying to get across. Absolutely! Quote: Originally posted by Tootsie I've done some readings for people that I don't know and didn't know of their personal situations. When this card would come up, I'd ask them if there was someone else in the picture and they were shocked and would tell me there was. Either they were the lover, or they were the partner..but, seems that card gives me strong messages when this situation is present. Sounds like you read very sensitively, good for you. Just don't assume it ALWAYS means that. Also: I am assuming negative meanings if Rx, but if you are seeing an extra person staight up, then so be it. I will keep that in mind as a possible meaning. Want to tell us more detail about the context that this happened in?

Tootsie	04 Sep 2004
Actually, Ace, if I recall, it was in its upright position that I would sense this third presence. Not much to tell, especially since it was a while ago. For a bit, I did some online readings for free to get practice, so people would email me requesting readings and would ask questions...some were specific, some were very vague. If they asked about romance, I would get a feel when this card would come up, but it didn't happen in every situation. So, definitely, the card spoke to me. However, I think I was starting to feel that it was indicative of a love triangle..having read what I have on this bard (in the meanings post), I realize how limited that scope was for me. So, I'm glad I looked into it, and that you guys have all helped me with this.

Trogon	05 Sep 2004
Hi Tootsie! Yes... you are right... The Lovers does mean that to you. ;) I am curious, do you use reversals in your readings? This type of question is one of the reasons that I decided early on to use reversals. If I get The Lovers reversed in a reading, then these "negative aspects" of the card (infidelity, disharmony in a realationship, coldness, etc... ) come to mind. Fortunately, I've only seen it come up twice reversed in a reading, both times it was more saying something along the lines of "the relationship is weak, you're not close to one another". Howver, Ace also mentioned the 2 of Cups. Now this card is one which I might interpret as meaning a person is "interested" in more than one lover. This is especially true in the Röhrig Tarot - this card shows a woman in an embrace, though you can't see who is holding her, just arms around her. However, if you look closely, there are three arms holding her! I don't get that as much with the image in most of the RWS decks though... but "new love" or a "love affair" can certainly be indicated. Again, as the others have said, it definitely depends too on what other cards in the reading are indicating as well.

juju	05 Sep 2004
Everyone already gave good responses. I absolutely believe that you can't really ask if a card ALONE means something - you should relate to surrounding cards. If the Lovers came up with say -the devil and a court card - it could very well mean infidelity. If you use reversals, then a reversed card can definitely point to that answer.

Ace	05 Sep 2004
Now this discussion of reversals is interesting. It dawned on my last night that I had made a mistake: I had (contrary to EVERYTHING I was saying) ASSUMED that it had to be reversed to be negative. Lovers upright is ALWAYS positive I was thinking, but it ain't neccessarily so. As Tootsie points out, if the cards say something is going on, well it IS-even with an upright card. I am learning again (and again, and again: never assume anything. And take a reading slowly and carefully so as to catch every nuance.) :| I do think, Juju that one card can be significant--I can do a whole (short) reading with one card--but more cards to confirm a big thing like that might be a good idea!

Tootsie	05 Sep 2004
Yes, Trogon, I do use reversals in my readings. I find reversals to be very relevant to readings, and can give a much deeper look at the situation as a whole. And, in the readings I was referring to, there were other cards that were drawn, so I didn't just use one card, and as Ace points out, for a situation like that, I'd certainly use more than a one card reading :) Tootsie

Thirteen	05 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by feticeira Ace can you explain how The Lovers can stand for lack of communication? This is if you follow the RW astrological assignments: The Lovers Card is Gemini--a card of talking and communication. Think of it this way--Geminis are always looking for their other self, their soul mate. The Lovers is Gemini in its most perfect state--paired with that other self, perfect communication. Which brings us to that THIRD presence: in RW, it's an angel indicating communication, a divine presence there to help make imperfect communication between two people, perfect. Also to unite them with divine blessing (very Adam and Eve). In some older cards, the third presence is Cupid. And in some cards, it's a matchmaker OR a choice made by a young man between a pretty but friviolous young woman and an older but wiser woman. Thus, the card reversed--or just feeling that it's not to be read as positive--could indicate a lack of communication usually between siblings, neighbors or lovers, and/or picking the wrong girl. I wouldn't interpet it as a threesome or infidelity unless there were other clues (3/cups, 3/swords, that sort of thing).

feticeira	05 Sep 2004
Thank you, Ace and Thirteen for shedding light on this card, I just found out it´s my soul card so I´m trying to comprehend it more fully.

cartarum	15 Sep 2004
yes, and no. in a reading focusing on the love life of your current partner, in the presence of the five of pentacles, and the five of swords reversed, can indicate infedelity. but beware your actions if there is also the eight of swords upright, the moon reversed, or the world reversed.

The The Lovers thread was originally posted on 03 Sep 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.