When you can't get a reading on someone

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Sep 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Trogon	03 Sep 2004
Okay... blame this thread on Ace and wispwings... ;) First some background; Most of the time, when I do a Tarot reading for someone, I end up being pretty accurate. Most of the readings are based on a blending of "traditional" or learned meanings for the cards - but that is just a starting point at best. I tend to add to, subtract from, come up with various points of view within, or sometimes totally change the meaning of the card based on what I feel at the time of the reading. Having said that... there has been one person, recently, for whom I just can't seem to get a good reading. He is a college student who works part-time for the police department at which I also am employed. He came to me for a general reading after I'd given some really good readings to a couple of other part-time student workers and the wife of one of the police officers. When he sat down with me and I dealt out the cards (a 5-card PPF reading with no specific question)... I looked at the cards... and nothing. Well... maybe not "nothing" at all, but very little. So, I tried going with some of the "traditional" meanings for the cards and nothing seemed to fit. At least, according to him it didn't... and as I would think of these learned meanings for the cards, I was pretty sure they weren't going to fit. So... we kind of stumbled through the reading for a bit and I finally had to say that I just wasn't really getting much from the cards for some reason and that we'd try again another time. I was thinking, maybe I was just a little worn out... I'd already done 2 readings just before his. But, I've done 3 readings in a row before and have usually been okay. I don't have a real negative feeling around him, so I don't think I was blocked by personal feelings either. Anyway... about a month and a half later we tried again. Same result. Totally blocked. I even tried looking through my notes to see if anything caught my eye and while a few key words did, things were just so general as to be almost meaningless. (Like 4 of coins - be careful with money - duh! He's a college student! :rolleyes:) So... let's see. The first reading was done using the Röhrig Tarot and was, as I mentioned above, a 5-card PPF. That was on June 5. The second reading was done on Aug 1, using the RWS Tarot and again was a 5-card PPF. I'm wondering if anyone else has had something like this happen? And, if so, were you able to work past it and how? I'm figuring we'll try once more, maybe using another deck and/or a different spread and see what we get.

Francesca	03 Sep 2004
Did you ask a specific question with the 2nd reading? If not, perhaps a specific question, not too complex would help get a handle on it all. Your friend may be very scattered or closed. There are a couple of 'ice breaker' spreads out there too that might help. I have one that I got from this site and you might find others that are helpful; ...........2 1......................4 ............3 1. What's been happening in your life 2. HOw you feel about it 3. What you didn't know 4. Why you're here. I don't remember who originally posted this, and I haven't had a chance to use it, but it or something along those lines could help. Francesca

Nevada	03 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Francesca Did you ask a specific question with the 2nd reading? I would also suggest this. I know that my readings for myself tend to be rather dead if I don't have a specific question. That brings another question to mind. I'm wondering, could you and he have a lot in common? Could you be tuning into something that is so like you that you don't see it as "other"? (I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense. Sorry, for some reason it's hard for me to put into words.) Nevada

Alissa	03 Sep 2004
If the sitter is vague in what they ask, the answer is often vague is my experience. However, open-ended or "no-question" questions can also provide fantastic readings. Dichotomy? Open questions (or no-question questions) work best for very specific spreads, where every position will tell you something. Issues (work project, relationship, etc.) can work very well with open-ended spreads (no position meanings applied, but 5 cards to see what's happening). Mixing no question with a loose PPF spread ... I can see how that might prove problematic. And, there's the possibility that the reading was fine, but as a reader we missed the message (I hate when that happens, but I admit that it does for me). A more specific question for future readings when this happens is a great suggestion, I think.

VGimlet	03 Sep 2004
I have also found that when there is nothing particular going on, nothing exciting with the love life, or work life, just the same-old same old, reasonably happy stuff the cards often reflect that, especially if it's a general reading. It's not exciting, but it's not BAD either. :) I will also agree - his having a specific question, or your having a spread to use for him - might work better.

Flavio	03 Sep 2004
Adding to other's comments, there are tricky querents... they ask about something but cards show what really concerns them. Have you considered he is a "closet skeptical"

Ace	03 Sep 2004
I know, it is all my fault (sniff!) Thanks Trogon for doing this thread. What is a PPF reading? Present, past, future? how is it laid out? Actually, I have one person I know of whom I could NOT read. I got NOTHING, nada, zilch. I don't know if it was me, the moment or the person but she had never let me try again, so I may never know. But she is a very private person so I think she simply refused to let me in. (I was new at all this and wanted to show off, so that is why I was trying to read her at all.) Once I went word blind, I picked up the center card in a CC reading (the Fool) and could not figure out what it meant! As you did, I stumbled through it, but not even the "traditional" meanings were there. The querent was on HEAVY doses of Prozac (new at that time) and I don't think she could even think straight. Since then I have read for people on Prozac (who were more functional) and I get depression, despair, etc. and not much else. Finally there are some people who want to show you can't read them... so you can't read them! I like phone readings at that point, people let their guard down more. (You might try that Trogon with this person-or maybe an e-mail of a specific question) Once I read for someone and at first I was doing fine, then I think he figured out this was REAL and shut down-suddenly I was just getting the traditional meanings for the cards and none of it made much sense. Again, people CAN shut you out, consciously or unconsciously. One thing: I am NOT asking for feedback (although it is nice when I get it) if I am reading right, I just say what I see, and sometimes they will insist that isn't true. They might even be right, but I still tell the story of a reader I worked with years ago. She kept telling this lady that she saw someone close to her in trouble with the law. "no, no one I know." the lady insisted. Finally the reader finished and asked, "well, that's it, any questions?" Yeah, " the client said, I want to ask about my nephew, he is in prison." I hope this doesn't seem too disconnected, but those are the reasons wanted this thread. Usually, I can read just fine. At this point, if I can't read someone I try to be aware of it enough to just say so, and let it go.

MeeWah	04 Sep 2004
Trogon: Perhaps the querent unwilling &/or otherwise blocking consciously or unconsciously; also as passive-agressive behaviour. Medication can also contribute to blockage (both ways). Instead of a reading, try a brief look at the person''s lifetime cards or preface reading with same. That can offer insight. Would not see it as necessarily critical of your own reading abilities, though possible a matter of timing.

Diana	04 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MeeWah Trogon: Perhaps the querent unwilling &/or otherwise blocking consciously or unconsciously; This sounds like it is the case here. This person is possibly in complete denial about something in his life and possibly doesn't even KNOW what he is in denial about. A specific spread to find out what is blocking him may help to uncover his problem.

lark	04 Sep 2004
At the beginning of every reading no matter what spread I use I do an Inner You Card and an Outer You Card. This usually opens up the door for the reading. Sometimes those two cards end up telling us what direction the reading needs to take. Especially for people who don't have a question. And some people just lead very quiet lives without alot going on.

Ruby7	04 Sep 2004
I can't read for my sister. She totally "blocks" me. Whenever I read for anyone else I don't usually have this problem, even if it is someone I don't even know. I think it is because she keeps information from me, doesn't want me to know everything in her life. For example we did a relationship reading and she wouldn't give me a question. I did a general reading about her love life that went nowhere and after I finished she told me that she had met someone new etc. I told her that it would have been more productive if we had consulted the cards about this new relationship instead of her keeping information from me. I wont read for her now unless she gives me a specific question. The querent has to be "open" for a reading to work. Ruby7

Diana	05 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by lark At the beginning of every reading no matter what spread I use I do an Inner You Card and an Outer You Card. Thanks for sharing, lark. Sounds good....

Trogon	05 Sep 2004
All very good points! Thank you all. I do feel that the 2 main points that were brought up do seem to apply. That he was subconsciously (or consciously) blocking me. And, that in the future a more specific question might be helpful. Ace, yes... "PPF" is Past-Present-Future. I generally lay the cards in a horizontal line, past being to the left and future being to the right (present in the center obviously). I've had very good results, most of the time, using this type of layout for relatively short general readings - with or without specific questions. If I use this spread without a specific question, it tends to reveal things that are going on in the querrent's life that they are concerned about. Okay... come to think of it, there probably is a specific question, but they haven't asked it out loud... ;) Diana... I think you may have hit the nail on the head though, when you said he may be in denial, or consciously hiding something. It is now time for me to reveal that thing which was hidden... }) (Yes, I know, this wasn't fair of me... but I did want to get some honest opinions/ideas on the subject without this information "tainting" the discussion.) In his first reading, his "Present" card was The Devil reversed... now this card usually is pretty meaningful to me, but like I said, it didn't speak to me and none of the "traditional" meanings seemed to fit. So, I had him draw a "clarifying card"... Princess of Disks. It didn't seem to clarify any thing at all at the time. Then a few days later, I was reviewing my notes for this reading - not that it bothered me, I was just hoping to get some insight after the fact - I also layed out the cards again. I looked at that combination of The Devil with the Princess of Disks... and it hit me... I think he may be gay and denying it... or simply questioning his sexuality... and again in denial about it. And, if he is in denial about this, or trying extremely hard to stay "in the closet", he would be blocking me. Here's his full reading from June 5th (Röhrig Tarot) along with the brief thoughts I had at the time ("rx" = reversed); 1 (past) - 3 of Cups - "happy" - girlfriend? 2 (recent past) - Prince of Wands-rx - "sad" (tells me he broke up with girlfriend about a month ago) 3 (present) - The Devil-rx - (Clarifier - Princess of Disks) - ??? 4 (near future) - 4 of Disks - Watch/be careful with money. 5 (future) - 5 of Swords - troubles (will need this money?) I usually read fairly intuitively. I look at the cards and just let the images, or portions of them, bring new images, thoughts, impressions and feelings to my mind. These images, thoughts, impressions and feelings are what I then relay (or try to relay) to my client. My notes are usually quite a bit more fleshed out than this, if I take notes, which I do when I can. And, it is very unusual for me to have no impression from a card, as with The Devil in this reading. But, even with the idea in mind stemming from the Devil rx/Princess of Disks combination, his second reading was just as "dead" to me as the previous one. As in the first case, I had finished a reading shortly before his which was quite meaningful for the client (well, I hope it was - in any case, it was accurate and "lively), so it wasn't because I was generally blocked that night. I think you all might be right though... he is blocking me. He was curious about the Tarot, but didn't really want anything revealed.

juju	05 Sep 2004
I'm a little out of it right now but your reading definitely seems like it has some important things there. Unfortunately, I try to stay away from PPF spreads because they always confuse me. I prefer specific spreads - ones that ask what the sitution is, what can be done, etc. I DO believe firmly this guy may be blocking you - because often when we read for people who are afraid of what we may learn, they may unknowingly close themselves off. I tend to do that to other readers, even being a reader myself. So I can relate on the other side. 1 (past) - 3 of Cups - "happy" - girlfriend? I also see this as a card of social happiness, parties, gatherings with friends. Perhaps he was going out a lot, socializing, making new friends. 2 (recent past) - Prince of Wands-rx - "sad" (tells me he broke up with girlfriend about a month ago) Yes, if he broke up with his gf - this card can mean a person who feels confused, broken, etc. 3 (present) - The Devil-rx - (Clarifier - Princess of Disks) - ??? Again, since you use reversals - the devil reversed to me means a situation where he may be "breaking free" from bonds. Perhaps he is a lot more heartbroken ove rthis ex than he claims? Or perhaps she (being a princess of disks) may have provided him with some sort of financial security? Was she older? 4 (near future) - 4 of Disks - Watch/be careful with money. The above cards make me wonder if she was indeed a financial security for him... 5 (future) - 5 of Swords - troubles (will need this money?) Now he has to support himself? I can totally be off target of course because I rely on intuition for readings. I would do a reading with a more focused spead in the future for this person. It may help to make the reading more clear.

gareth.	05 Sep 2004
This thread has been food for thought.I do like the contribution from Francesca and Lark and have made notes!I think it is risky placing responsibility for a failed reading onto the client.Like writers block there is tarot block.You know if a reading is wrong.Reading the Tarot at its highest is intuitive.Do you need to know why something happens? Knowledge and ability can come from acceptance that something is.Those you can read for will bring your satisfaction and reward!

Ace	05 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Trogon Here's his full reading from June 5th (Röhrig Tarot) along with the brief thoughts I had at the time ("rx" = reversed); 1 (past) - 3 of Cups - "happy" - girlfriend? 2 (recent past) - Prince of Wands-rx - "sad" (tells me he broke up with girlfriend about a month ago) 3 (present) - The Devil-rx - (Clarifier - Princess of Disks) - ??? 4 (near future) - 4 of Disks - Watch/be careful with money. 5 (future) - 5 of Swords - troubles (will need this money?) This reading seems fairly staightforward to me. But I don't use the Rohrig deck partly because it has captions on it (I laughed right out loud at the clip your Rohrig thread!) I see it as a story: boy and girl, happy (but 3 of cups can be superficial), Prince of W- the querent broke it off. Now he is actually feeling freer (the Devil reversed is free of the bad things the Devil entails, guilt, mental luggage, pain, whatever) but near future, insecure (trying to avoid change-that may have caused the break up: I wonder if the Devil Rx was a need to avoid a conflict of some kind. He didn't feel he could stay with her and be himself somehow-I see a lot of detail in that Devil Rx) I think, if he can relax a bit, he will find he is maturing: discovering things about himself and his relationship to woman that make him nervous. NO I DON'T see him has gay or something, just not feeling like light weight relationships any more--and not ready to face it! Anyway, try laying out the spread with a non-captioned deck and see what you see with it. I think the captions are getting in your way. They don't agree with what you see, so you are blocking the reading.

Diana	05 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Trogon In his first reading, his "Present" card was The Devil reversed... One should always listen to one's little voice. When I wrote my post yesterday about him being in denial, and doing a reading on what it is, I nearly said "I bet you'll get the Devil and that this guy has some problems related to his sexuality". But I didn't. I thought "you're going out on a limb here, Diana." It may be more than just denying his gayness.... I think he needs to see a therapist. Enough said. My little voice is anxious. Tread carefully, Trogon. Please.

MeeWah	05 Sep 2004
Trogon: Whence first I spied your thread, the immediate thought was sexual identity issue. As this is a extremely delicate matter, I was reluctant to make such a pronouncement publicly nor out-of-hand, I posted moreorless in general or generic terms. I do feel that this young man desperately needs professional help to learn to come to terms with himself. Past: 3-Cups: In the past, comfort found in female relationships, possibly due to their nurturing qualities. Pushed away the private concern by putting on a happy face or even "partying". The last possibly part of an effort to test the self as a rite of passage, almost as if in imitation of his peers &/or the perceived societal mores. Also the idea to acquire more experience through the various relationships with the oppositie sex. Such as via a number of girls to detemine compatibility, to "find" the self, connect with the feelings towards developing a connection. Not clear that there really has been "a number" of relationships as the heart not really in it. Recent past: Prince-Wands, R: Living a lie is what he feels. As occurs, the time comes whence one is no longer able to sustain what is not true nor comfortable to the sensibility. Present/Clarifier: The Devil, R/Princess of Disks: Denial leaves one caught between the devil & a hard place. That is, no where to go. He is in a very bad place. Would venture to state desperate. Near future: 4-Disks: Very much afraid of the self-discovery. Also of being "outed" out of his apparent stable existance in relation to family, friends, society. Needs to find a well of strength to accept the self & to establish a sense of security within the life parameters. A need for counselling or assistance on a practical level. If he is still a college student, may feel his educational support by family or other hinges on his apparent acceptance as "one of the boys". Future: 5-Swords: Difficulties loom large. Whether there already exists gossip or innuendoes, he perceives such which make him even more distressed. Questions his mind. Not unusual to have other factors weighing in--family traditions may be one.

Trogon	06 Sep 2004
Thank you all so very much for your insights! You've all been extremely helpful... so helpful that you made me remember something which I hadn't really put in place here before. During both of this person's readings, he had at least one friend or co-worker "observing". When he had asked for his reading, they were standing there and asked if they could watch. He said it was okay. Then, before I actually started, I checked with him again... "are you sure it's okay if they watch?" I tried to make sure he knew that it would be okay if he didn't want an audience. But, thinking back, he may not have wanted to "insult" his friend. It could be then that I was blocked because of the presence of the other persons both times... possibly because I was seeing some things more serious than I wanted to bring out in front of said audience. In otherwords, my own subconscious was stopping me from bringing out things in public which he wouldn't want brought out. (By the way, I have done other readings with an "audience" so to speak, and usually there's never been a problem. A couple of times there might be something which needed to be discussed in private and I've just said to the querrent, and their friend, that there was a private matter and to "please excuse us." This has never really caused a problem. But maybe in this reading, there was too much and hence the blockage?) If he asks for another reading... I think my first step is going to be to chase off the audience. And yes MeeWah and Diana... thank you, I already was figuring I'd need to be pretty careful with this client... Quote: Posted by Ace This reading seems fairly staightforward to me. But I don't use the Rohrig deck partly because it has captions on it (I laughed right out loud at the clip your Rohrig thread!) [snip] Anyway, try laying out the spread with a non-captioned deck and see what you see with it. I think the captions are getting in your way. They don't agree with what you see, so you are blocking the reading. LOL Ace. Actually, the keywords which appear on the Röhrig Tarot seldomly cause any problems for me... I pretty much ignore them when I need to. There have been a lot of times that I've gone with an intuitive interpretation of the Röhrig cards which was quite a bit off from the caption or keyword... or the book meaning for that matter. ;) I did like your thoughts on the reading though. I guess it would help if I'd remember to put these kinds of things in my post in the first place, huh? :| Oh heck... that reminds me... another little tidbit! I've been working with him off and on for about a year... so I don't even notice it any more. But he does have a speach impediment - he can't pronounce his "R's". So, there is undoubtedly some reservedness, selfconsciousness relating to this. Okay... I think that's all the pertinent details... :rolleye:

Diana	06 Sep 2004
Trogon: I hope things will soon settle for you and this querent. I still think there is more to this than just being a closet gay and that there are some things too big for us mere Tarot readers to handle. I told a client today that I refuse to read for her again until she begins some serious psychotherapy. I was up against something much to big for me.

Ace	06 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Trogon Thank you all so very much for your insights! You've all been extremely helpful... so helpful that you made me remember something which I hadn't really put in place here before. During both of this person's readings, he had at least one friend or co-worker "observing". When he had asked for his reading, they were standing there and asked if they could watch. He said it was okay. Then, before I actually started, I checked with him again... "are you sure it's okay if they watch?" I tried to make sure he knew that it would be okay if he didn't want an audience. But, thinking back, he may not have wanted to "insult" his friend. It could be then that I was blocked because of the presence of the other persons both times... possibly because I was seeing some things more serious than I wanted to bring out in front of said audience. In otherwords, my own subconscious was stopping me from bringing out things in public which he wouldn't want brought out. (By the way, I have done other readings with an "audience" so to speak, and usually there's never been a problem. A couple of times there might be something which needed to be discussed in private and I've just said to the querrent, and their friend, that there was a private matter and to "please excuse us." This has never really caused a problem. But maybe in this reading, there was too much and hence the blockage?) If he asks for another reading... I think my first step is going to be to chase off the audience. And yes MeeWah and Diana... thank you, I already was figuring I'd need to be pretty careful with this client... I think that is a major hit right there, Trogon! I always ask the querent if they mind if people watch. Sometimes even having friends around is good, it adds to the energy and the fun, but I remember a party I was reading at. Four women were getting read around the table, all laughing and having fun. They invited a fifth in to join them, but when it came time for her reading, I started and CLAP! Blocked up completely! So I chased the other ladies from the table (she was an acquaintence but I got the impression not as close as the others were to each other) and she relaxed and we did the reading fine. So next time-do this guys reading in PRIVATE and reassure him of confidentiality and see what happens. Good luck.

The When you can't get a reading on someone thread was originally posted on 03 Sep 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.