A question about the Moon.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Oct 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cait_inthe_moon	24 Oct 2004
This may be a silly question, but I'm really curious. Why does the Moon have a lobster (or some type of crustacean) on it?

xviiirkna	24 Oct 2004
according to S. L. MacGregor Mathers... The Moon. The moon shining in the heavens, drops of dew falling, a wolf and a dog howling at the Moon, and halted at the foot of two towers, a path which loses itself in the horizon (and is sprinkled with drops of blood, a crayfish emblematic of the sign Cancer, ruled over by the Moon, crawls through water in the foreground towards the land). It symbolises Twilight, Deception, and Error. http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/mathers/index.htm Blessings, Sally Anne

horoskope88	24 Oct 2004
There are a few explanations for this. First of all, the Moon in astrology rules the sign Cancer, which is often called the Crab, but has been depicted as more of a lobster-like creature. The Moon card, however, is attributed to the sign Pisces by most. Second, I've read that the image of this crustacean crawling out of the sea represents "something" emerging from the unconscious mind for good or bad, drawn to the surface by the moonlight, be it hidden fears or repressed urges, psychic hunches, dreams, and artistic inspiration.

RedMaple	24 Oct 2004
For me it's a reminder that there's all sorts of things crawling around in the subconscious, it's not all sweet inspiration. But, on the other hand, healing and most good art comes from looking at some of our most painful truths.

Fulgour	24 Oct 2004
Crayfish are fresh water creatures, and this is the special significance of this symbol: we are reminded of the Nile River, and the tropics of Capricorn and Cancer ~ cometh the floods. Lobsters have a larger claw, and Crabs are roundish, and both may inhabit either salt water or fresh. Also note: card number XVIII correspondes with Letter 18 which is Tsade ~ and the sign of Aquarius. The Moon in Aquarius has been known as the Astrologer's Moon since ancient times, a clue to which may also be found in the compass-like antennae of the Marseille deck's Crayfish. Every astrologer worth his beans had a good compass: http://letarot.com/images/original-Dodal/XVIII-web.jpg * Also of etymological interest: astacura: astacus [nl, fr. latin, crab, fr. greek [i]astacos, ostakos[/i] lobster, crayfish; akin to Greek osteon bone - more at OSSEUS] : a genus (the type of the family Astacidae) of crustaceans containing the freshwater crayfishes of Europe and related species of western No. America astarte [nl, fr. latin [i]Astarte[/i], principal goddess of Tyre and Sidon (often identified with Aphrodite by the Greeks), fr. Greek Astarte, of Sem origin; akin to Hebrew Ashtoreth, Phoenician and Canaanite goddess] 1 cap : a genus (type of family of Astartidae) comprising marine bivalve mollusks (order Eulamellibranchia) with thick equal-valved shells often concentrically ridged and with well-developed hinge teeth 2 -s : any member of the genus Astarte 1. Freshwater Crayfish 2. Astarte, Goddess of Phoenicia 3. Concentrically-Ridged

cait_inthe_moon	24 Oct 2004
I had guessed the meaning had something to do with something unseen coming out of a deep mysterious pool, and I was wondering if the creature had any significance. Thank you for satisfying my curiosity.

HudsonGray	24 Oct 2004
The crayfish is pretty primitive in nature's scheme of things, and I figured it stood for the little 'lizard mind' in the back of all our subconscious minds, the one that screams out RUN! before instinct or actual real thinking kicks in. Having it pop up out of the water, to me, means that it's present in all situations & you should be aware of what it's trying to say, as well as use reasoning to get past the hurdle of it always trying to co-opt your actions to 'save you'. Instinct has it's place & is neccessary, but not to the exclusion of all else. Having one show up on cards in other decks (where the crayfish comes out of the water completely & is on the path) can show that something is out of it's element, which can be very important also.

magpie9	24 Oct 2004
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9226&highlight=Crab+in+the+Moon Here is a delightful old thread on that very question, cait_in_the_moon. Enjoy!

Fulgour	25 Oct 2004
please delete

magpie9	25 Oct 2004
Well, my goodness, fulgour, I can't imagine how we could have missed that! :D :D :D edited to add: :eek: Ooops! I meant that in a funny silly way, not mean and sarcastic. I am in awe of fulgours ability to find information online...he's like a magician pulling stuff out of his hat...he makes it look effortless! I'm sorry. Here are 3 jolly laughers as compensation. Hope no feelings are permantly hurt.

cait_inthe_moon	25 Oct 2004
Magpie, Thank you for posting that thread. It was really helpful in understanding The Moon card more, as where the other posts for this thread. There are so many ideas for why there is a lobster (or a crab or a crawfish) in the card, so I guess I'll just have to find the meaning in the context of othercards. Or go with whatever instinct tells me to go with. Thanks again!

jmd	25 Oct 2004
The more I reflect on this card, the more distant I find myself from the Golden Dawn attributions, and the more closely to the simpler Cancer-Moon connection. Apart from the thread already linked (why is there a lobster in The Moon?), it may also be worth reading through the thread on the sequence of Star, Moon, Sun, and on the Marseille thread on XVIII La Lune. In the opening post, cait_inthe_moon asks indeed a difficult question: ' Why does the Moon have a lobster (or some type of crustacean) on it?' As other posts and other threads have shown, we may indeed begin to reply as to what the crustacean may refer to, but the 'why' I suspect we shall continue to have disagreements over. For myself, the 'why' is simply partly as a consequence, as my first paragraph indicates, of early astrological considerations and of iconography relatively common in mediaeval times: Cancer and its ruler, the Moon - therefore the Moon and the sign it rules, Cancer. Yet I do not think that astrological correlations are to be taken in any way as figuring in all cards (not even in twelve of these) - rather, I consider that the very apparent incompleteness of obvious correlations gives Tarot its active creative tension.

Fulgour	25 Oct 2004
Of course now we might also pose the question: What really is it that is pictured there in the sky?

jmd	25 Oct 2004
...and so I begin a new thread on this very question: Is it the Moon that is depicted on XVIII the Moon?

Shoegal75	29 Oct 2004
There are a few explanations for this. First of all, the Moon in astrology rules the sign Cancer, which is often called the Crab, but has been depicted as more of a lobster-like creature. The Moon card, however, is attributed to the sign Pisces by most. Second, I've read that the image of this crustacean crawling out of the sea represents "something" emerging from the unconscious mind for good or bad, drawn to the surface by the moonlight, be it hidden fears or repressed urges, psychic hunches, dreams, and artistic inspiration. __________________ Sounds like Freud's Theory to a tee. Hmmm....Wonder if Freud was a cancer. LOL

The A question about the Moon. thread was originally posted on 24 Oct 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.