Another person in the Nine of Pentacles?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Oct 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| primaryreality |
19 Oct 2004 |
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I'm reading Tarot and The Tree of Life, by Isabel Radow Kliegman--it's a really excellent book.
However, in her discussion of the Nine of Pentacles--and she's referring to the Universal Waite deck--she says, parenthetically, "Can you find the other person in the card? Is the lady's isolation about to end?"
I am mystified. Anyone know what she's talking about? I know it's probably something that is going to make me feel really silly after someone explains it, but I'd really like to know. I have looked and looked at the card and I don't get it. For anyone who has the book and might want to look up the reference, it's on page 69, near the end of the discussion of the Nine of Pentacles.
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| fan |
19 Oct 2004 |
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Hi!
I don't know the book, but now I'm also interested, what the others know about it, and I also searched for another person in the card. All I found was a snail in the bottom of the picture. ;)
But I have to say, that I talk about the Rider-Waite, not about the Unsiversal Waite.
Maybe she is not talking about a real person...she is talking about the snail :D
I am very excited to read, what the others know about it!
fân
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| Fulgour |
19 Oct 2004 |
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NINE of PENTACLES
The separation of the Pentacles into one group of three
and another group of six suggests that a multiplication
has taken place, and with her gown imprinted with the
astrological sign for Venus, symbol of creative feminine
power, and the card's theme of fullness and fulfilment,
perhaps the "other person" is being suggested the six
Pentacles to the left ~ in the form of a funny little kid?
Note: Special thanks to Sandra A. Thomson and her
very informative book, The Heart of the Tarot. Though
she doesn't at all suggest that "Lady Nine" isn't alone...
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| primaryreality |
19 Oct 2004 |
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Yes, those six pentacles are arranged in a way that could symbolically represent a human form, and she is resting her hand on the top one in the same way you'd rest your hand on the head of a child standing beside you.
I did notice that, and wondered if Kliegman was somehow implying that the woman in the garden might be pregnant. But even with the multiplication idea, that all seems to me to be quite a leap to another person in the card, or to the idea that somehow her isolation is about to end.
One of the things I love about this card is how content this woman seems in her garden, enjoying it alone (except for the snail and the falcon, of course). Maybe I just don't want her lovely alone-ness interrupted!
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| Fulgour |
19 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by primaryreality
One of the things I love about this card is how content this woman seems in her garden, enjoying it alone (except for the snail and the falcon, of course). Maybe I just don't want her lovely alone-ness interrupted! I think that her aloneness is actually highlighted by the silent
presence of the hooded falcon and the unseen garden snail.
If I had to place another person "in" the card it would be myself.
After awhile I get the funniest feeling that bird is looking at me!
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| Webfoot |
19 Oct 2004 |
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Perhaps the lady is pregnant.
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| Fulgour |
19 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by Webfoot
Perhaps the lady is pregnant. Or it could be that the illustration is a dramatisation of a song or verse,
and according to the lyric or text ~ the way the story next goes is...?
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| maria42airam |
20 Oct 2004 |
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I don't have the Universal Waite, but in the RWS 9 of Pentacles, I do see something that could be a second person.
Check it out, left hand side, outside the garden behind the lady, on the left hand side of the tree. "He" is wearing a yellow cloak, closed against the wind and a black "hat" on his head.
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| CreativeFire |
20 Oct 2004 |
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I am also not familiar with the book but the Universal Waite deck is one of my favourite reading decks, so this thread definitely got me curious as I have never noticed or heard of another person in the image ;) So my son and I sort of played "Where's Wally" with the card to see what we could come up with! :D
After looking at it quite a bit and not seeing a 'person', we got to talking about the 'head' of the falcon, in that it looks more like a human head under the hood than a birds head. As the shadow markings for the eyes are at the front and facing forward whereas a birds eyes are usually at the side of their heads.
But after looking a bit more, I think I sort of see an outline of a person to the left of the post, near the tree on the left hand side of the card - just a head and shoulders like someone in the distance . . . have attached a scan - am I seeing things? :D
CreativeFire
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| OakDragon |
20 Oct 2004 |
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I think you're all grasping at straws, personally. Not everything that's written can be trusted, you know.
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| primaryreality |
20 Oct 2004 |
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I agree that not everything that is written can be trusted; in this case it was more a matter of my being curious about what it was Kliegman could possibly be seeing in this card that to her suggested the presence or impending presence of another person. And if I could manage to see it from her perspective, to see what it is she saw there, whether or not I agreed with her, being able to understand what she was getting at or seeing would give me an expanded consciousness of the possibilities of the card that might turn out to be useful or meaningful to me at a later time.
As it happens, I personally feel that the atmosphere of contented solitude is the core quality of this card; Kliegman-- by her use of the word "isolation"--seems to perceive it in a different way. Where I see "solitude" in this card, and see it as a positive, she sees "isolation," which has a whole different set of associations and connotations.
Maybe I'll get to meet her someday and ask her just what the heck she was talking about!
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| Imagemaker |
20 Oct 2004 |
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Where I see "solitude" in this card, and see it as a positive, she sees "isolation,"
This is a crucial difference in how an image brings up thoughts in the reader's consciousness. For me, too, the 9 pents is a comfortable solitude of a woman with inner resources, power (falcon), appreciator of beauty, etc.
I see it completely differently from those who see her trapped, locked in by her abundance (!) and waiting for someone to free her.
We each develop a relationship with the images that is so different from those who filter them another way.
Fascinating to learn about the filters and interpretations of others, but always go inside and clarify your own.
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| Fulgour |
20 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by OakDragon
I think you're all grasping at straws, personally. Not everything that's written can be trusted, you know. Maybe the clue is a riddle ~ or a pun! What's there to lose by playing?
If we wanted, we could compare it to Frieda Harris' 8 of Discs which
is so oddly reminisient... or find an 'answer' in the 7-8-9-10 sequence.
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| OakDragon |
20 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by Fulgour
Maybe the clue is a riddle ~ or a pun! What's there to lose by playing?
If we wanted, we could compare it to Frieda Harris' 8 of Discs which
is so oddly reminisient... or find an 'answer' in the 7-8-9-10 sequence.
Oh, alright! :D
I was looking at the card online (here: http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/decks/browsedecks.php?newdeck=34) and thought the castle in the background looks a bit like a face. (A red-haired guy with a long nose.)
There, how's that?
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| CreativeFire |
21 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by OakDragon
Oh, alright! :D
I was looking at the card online (here: http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/decks/browsedecks.php?newdeck=34 ) and thought the castle in the background looks a bit like a face. (A red-haired guy with a long nose.)
There, how's that?
That's the spirit, OakDragon!! :D Good imagination ;)
I personally however do not really think and feel that there is another 'real' person in this card and also agree that isolation and solitude just comes down to how comfortable someone is with their own company. ;)
Thinking about it, looking from the point of view that the lady in the 9 of Pents is a hard working girl and probably enjoys her time alone in the beautiful, peaceful garden whenever she can find the time!
CF
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| Sillanza |
22 Oct 2004 |
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Everyone has all come up with some great "maybes" about the other person that might be in play in this card. "Maybe" that's the answer. The potential to see so many others is there, does she see them? Will she see them? Is she isolated by choice, or by design? Has someone chosen to isolate her and then gaze upon her, undetected, from afar? Has she chosen comfortable solitude over engaging with the others in the world around her? Is she living in a fishbowl?
Thanks for the thread, primaryreality!
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The Another person in the Nine of Pentacles? thread was originally posted on 19 Oct 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.
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