Learning RWS and Thoth at the same time?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Oct 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

IDN	11 Oct 2004
Hi, Could I please have your opinions on learning the Tarot with RWS (and clones) decks and also learning with the Toth at the same time? I currently own an original RWS, Spiral, Morgan Greer and Osho Zen decks. I do a daily draw on the Morgan Greer and record my interpretations and observations in a journal (actually use a Palm handheld for convenience). I feel drawn to the Thoth deck. But I also feel a bit “daunted” about the unillustrated pips. So my main question is: Should I just stick with the RWS-style decks until I am really comftable, or would it be OK to buy the Thoth and delve into that as well. Will one confuse the other, or maybe compliment and ease the learning of each? Many thanks, Regards, Ian Edited to add: Only be studying for 3 months.

MeeWah	11 Oct 2004
IDN: I am not sure than 3 months will be enough time to devote to both the RWS & the Thoth as learning is an on-going process; however, see no reason why not to learn 2 different decks. The RWS & Thoth are very different from each other. The advantage to learning the RWS or its clones is the wealth of resources available. RWS can provide a firm foundation to apply to other decks though not always the RWS-based. Unillustrated pips can still trigger the imagination/intuition based on their numbers, colours & shapes. Thoth would provide exposure to another tradition & can enhance another or a broader view. It can be confusing as it may appear not merely different but also diametrically opposed to the RWS & particularly where the pips are concerned. Its card captions can be limiting or prohibitive, but can be ignored. Recommend perusing the threads of the respective study groups before committing to a purchase. They would also enhance the learning of both decks.

maria42airam	11 Oct 2004
IDN, I started with the RWS also and the Thoth was my second deck. After about three months, I find myself with seven decks! At some point, I realized that I would never stop learning the RWS, so I couldn't wait until then to start the next deck. Each deck I have is very different, so I am taking a modified "Comparative" approach to them. Each night I draw a daily card from each, describe it in my journal and read about the "documented" meanings of the card for that deck. Lately I've been considering just pulling a daily card from the RWS and writing up the same card in each deck. That would be a better comparison. But I like pulling the seven cards and looking at them as a sort-of spread for the following day. I'm torn at the moment as to which way to go. I really do not have time to do both! I think that the RWS and the Thoth are significantly different enough that you can study both and not confuse them, and it's interesting to see what areas the author drew information from in order to "create" their decks.

Fulgour	11 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by IDN Will one confuse the other, or maybe compliment and ease the learning of each? Would you want to learn Snooker on a crooked table? Try this test: Shuffle the cards and see how they feel. Your deck will reveal itself to you in many ways, but always on the level, like shooting with a straight cue.

closrapexa	11 Oct 2004
I've learned that they compliment eachother. But one thing that bothers me is that you said that you'll be studying for only three months? May I ask why? i mean, why stop after three months if you are interested in Tarot. Or have you been studying for three months?

floracove	11 Oct 2004
I found this site the other day... They have both the Thoth and Rider deck side by side in their meaning infomation. Meanings of all 78 Arcanum

IDN	12 Oct 2004
Thanks for all the input so far, SORRY for the TYPO: I meant to have said "Only BEEN studying for 3 months. I realise the Tarot is a Life Long Education. Well, last night I bought a Thoth deck. It is the AGMuller standard size. It has greyish borders and only 1 Magus. I assume this version is as good as any? In the very short time I have had it, I LOVE it! Regards, Ian

skh	12 Oct 2004
I think the three-magi edition(s) is/are out of print, so yes, what you have is a standard Thoth and should be fine. I see no reason why even a complete beginner shouldn't use the Thoth. It will not bite newbies, nor go up in flames when touched by an uninitiated hand... I'm using Waite/Colman-Smith based decks and the Thoth side by side, and to me they are close enough to each other that some cards may vary and depict different aspects of the same idea, but still are understandable as two interpretations of the same system of reference. Oh, and the numbered minor arcana are far from being unillustrated, there are just no people on them ;-) cheers, Sonja

noby	16 Oct 2004
As a tarot novice who does not yet own either of these decks, but has studied and examined the cards and their meanings online and in books, I see these two decks, the Rider-Waite and Thoth, as being more similar than different. I think they would be wonderful to learn at the same time, as they have quite a bit in common, and most of the differences are just subtle shifts in meaning. Only a couple cards in the entire 78-card decks seem to have totally different meanings. :CL :SL :WL :OL As for the Majors, the Thoth steers them away from some of the Christian symbolism of the Rider-Waite, has more complex imagery in the majors, and shifts some of the ideas a little. But it seems to me the ideas, archetypes, energies, and symbolism are basically the same in both sets of cards. For the entire Major Arcana, it seems to me the only card between the two decks that has a different meaning and not just a different name is the Thoth "Lust" / Rider-Waite-Smith "Strength" dichotomy. But I think a closer examination reveals that the underlying ideas and energies are similar; the authors just interpreted them differently. Crowley celebrates unleashing Lust while the Rider-Waite seems to take a more Christian view of restraint and mastery of animal urges. Different takes, but both address shoring up internal power, the "beast within." :CL :SL :WL :OL As for the Minors, the Thoth "pips" may not have picture illustrations, but just as the Thoth majors use geometry to communicate ideas and energies, so do the "pips," and they also have very precise, but yet not limiting, keywords. And for the most part, these Thoth keywords match the images in the Rider-Waite. Only in a very few instances (I counted six) can the meanings be seen as irreconcilably different between the decks' pip cards. In a few other instances, the meanings aren't quite the same, but seem to be variations on the same underlying message and energy (I counted nine instances of this). In one instance, the Thoth keywords match up exactly with Waite cards, but in reversed order (the Thoth keyword for the Nine of Cups is "Happiness," which matches up with the Rider-Waite Ten of Cups; the Thoth keyword for the Ten of Cups is "Satiety," which matches up with the Rider-Waite Nine of Cups). Otherwise, the cards seem to be pretty much the same. :CL :SL :WL :OL The differences between the Court Cards seem to be a bit more difficult and complex to analyze, but overall it seems to me that they too communicate the same underlying energies and ideas. The same elemental energies seem to be associated with each suit, and similar qualities seem to be associated with each member of the court, though it seems some people associate the Thoth Knights with the RWS Kings, while others associate the Thoth Princes with the RWS Kings. :CL :SL :WL :OL So I think the study of both at the same time would be really beneficial and useful. I think the systems are quite similar and complement one another. And as something of a beginner myself, I've found that even though I have not been studying these two decks directly, my study of card meanings always goes back to and references the Rider-Waite-Smith and/or Thoth as a base. I think a solid understanding of these cards is probably the best and first thing a beginner should go for. :CL :SL :WL :OL And for reference, this site has links to several entire decks, including the Crowley and Rider-Waite-Smith in its traditional coloring as well as the subtly shaded Universal Waite edition, which I prefer for the most part.

The Learning RWS and Thoth at the same time? thread was originally posted on 11 Oct 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.