Court cards

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 22 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cheekyminx	22 Nov 2004
Can gay men or women be depicted as the opposite sex in a reading? That is, if a gay man asks about relationships/love and a queen comes up, can 'she' represent a 'he'? No offence intended here, its just that a few times I've had queens come up instead of kings..... :)

jmd	22 Nov 2004
I've had Queens come up for heterosexual men as well... (including myself). It probably depends more on how you are likely to read the cards as to which will come to the fore.

krazymayj	22 Nov 2004
i have done extensive work on this subject. a gay man is often considered a knight of cups reversed in true form. they also appear as a page of cups reversed or upright. a lesbian is also a knight of cups or a page. a gay man can often be a queen, but usually only realize this until you find out. anybody can be a queen page or knight. arthur waite, for example, was a queen of cups. i myself can sometimes be a queen of pentacles reversed. be well

Vincent	22 Nov 2004
cheekyminx wrote: Can gay men or women be depicted as the opposite sex in a reading? That is, if a gay man asks about relationships/love and a queen comes up, can 'she' represent a 'he'? No offence intended here, its just that a few times I've had queens come up instead of kings..... :) It might be a mistake to believe that court cards are definitive on gender, but as jmd says, it depends on the way you read the cards. The forces the court cards represent are designated as masculine and feminine, but it doesn't really imply gender, or sexual orientation, any more than some electrical connectors, for example, are designated as male and female. You might find Pauline Hanson represented by the Knight of Wands, just as the forces motivating John Howard could be represented by the Queen of Wands. Vincent

Paul	26 Nov 2004
Gargoyle_guarded is chatting about this as well other chat I posted a longer answer there. More succinctly, I believe the cards will work with your own mojo, so to speak. As for me, Kings and Queens are simply males and females; no quess work. I don't use layouts, just sentence-strings. So, a gay couple will be shown by 2 Kings together in a string of cards. A lesbian couple by 2 Queens in the sentence-string. Another card or cards will indicate a relationship (good, bad or ugly). Therefore, it the sexual orientation is not being highlighted, but the relationship, which is of more importance. The sexual orientation is implied. Pages are the courts that can shift gender (which fits: children are of course androgynous as far as sexual characteristic development is concerned). Knights rarely mean people in my readings; more often, actions.

HudsonGray	26 Nov 2004
I take them as aspects of people, not gender related. It wouldn't be a problem to have all female figures come up for a male or vice versa.

Moongold	26 Nov 2004
cheekyminx wrote: Can gay men or women be depicted as the opposite sex in a reading? That is, if a gay man asks about relationships/love and a queen comes up, can 'she' represent a 'he'? No offence intended here, its just that a few times I've had queens come up instead of kings..... :) Cheekyminx. I had to laugh when I read your post because gay men who are very feminine or dressed up in drag are often referred to as "Queens" or "Drag Queens". Being gay myself, I say that with affection and the irony of ths insider. No intention to be derogatory. In some ways, with the delightful irony of the tarot, you could take the appearance of a queen or a king in this way. It would depend on the context and the perpective and skill of the reader. More likely though, the Courts refer to aspects or characteristics of the querent, and these would be further defined/refined by the suit characteristics. Moongold

cheekyminx	27 Nov 2004
Moongold wrote: I had to laugh when I read your post because gay men who are very feminine or dressed up in drag are often referred to as "Queens" or "Drag Queens". Being gay myself, I say that with affection and the irony of ths insider. No intention to be derogatory.Moongold I realised after I had posted that I didn't word my sentence correctly. I laughed as well. I'm a great fan of "drag shows" and I love going out to Oxford St and meeting new people. I often use the term "Queen". I guess I can sort of, kinda, be considered gay ;) my best friend of over 20 years is gay and so is my housemate. lol Yes, I'm a gay man trapped inside a womans body. I think this heat is getting to me.....its about 34 degrees here

cheekyminx	27 Nov 2004
Oops!!

WhiteRaven	27 Nov 2004
cheekyminx wrote: Oops!! roflol!!! Is this AT's idea of a Pride parade? Which float am I suppose to be on? Cheeky...when I do a spread...especially when it's concerning myself and my Ex...I look at the Courts as non gender...much like MoonGold I suppose. I lean more towards the character and personality, plus the physical description in regards to "coloring"..so to speak. Sometimes it gets confusing when you DON'T know someone is gay or not and you're trying to do a proper reading for them. I try and ask in a very subtle way when my radar is screaming at me. :)

The Court cards thread was originally posted on 22 Nov 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.