Good advice from a friend on reading the cards

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Phoenix Rising	07 Nov 2004
I went over to a friends the other day. She is a very experienced reader of 25 years, using playing cards. She gave me some really good advice on becoming a very good reader, she said: "When you know your cards so well, it doesn't matter how others interpret it, even if they are more experienced than you, they are your cards and it's like you train them, as it's showing itself to you, how your logical mind will perceive them. So once you know them, when you lay those cards out, you will instantly know what it's talking about, without too much effort in analysing it. So you just practise, practise, practise on as many people as you can, just to see how the cards are showing itself to you." I thought this was just the best advice that I have been given since i started using the cards. Hope it helps.

Dark Inquisitor	07 Nov 2004
I think that is excellent advice. I have often thought that the tarot functions as a language of symbols that is trying to get through to us. And each of us has filter in the form of our own mind, culture, associations, etc. Which makes it difficult to say that the tarot will function identically for each person. (There may be an objective symbolic language of the tarot, as well as the subjective one though. ) Playing cards would seem to me to be almost wholly intuitive based though. Did she say she learned their meanings from somewhere, or just made up her own? I tend to think the original tarot pip cards had no meaning whatsoever.

magpie9	08 Nov 2004
[quote=Dark Inquisitor]I Quote: I tend to think the original tarot pip cards had no meaning whatsoever. Oh dear, Dark Inquisitor, let's hope the Marsaille-as-only-true-deck crowd miss your post! But I think you may have something there....just when did the pips aquire meanings, anyway? And how? Phoenix, I agree with your teacher/friend--i absolutely feel that the cards adjust to one's level of reading and understanding. Which, to my mind, is why you can ask 2 different readers the same question, and get essentially the same answer from both--but not neccessarily the same cards.

Phoenix Rising	08 Nov 2004
. Quote: Did she say she learned their meanings from somewhere, or just made up her own? she was taught by her grandmother when she was 10 years old. She uses the same spread, never changes. The intuitive side came in after a few years of reading. When she first started getting paid, she only charged a donation of whatever they gave her. When they all seemed to give her the same amount $30 she set the price at that and hasn't changed in 15 years.

Jewel-ry	08 Nov 2004
I think this is great advice! Does she just have the one deck then? For some time I have thought that if we just used one deck we would grow to know it really well and that having too many decks just makes this an impossible task. I have been offloading decks ever since ;) ~

RedMaple	08 Nov 2004
Jewel-ry wrote: For some time I have thought that if we just used one deck we would grow to know it really well and that having too many decks just makes this an impossible task. I have been offloading decks ever since ;) ~ I love the advice, too, and have to say that what she says about training the cards seems very true to me. (I've been reading for about 25 years also.) I guess I think there is just one Tarot, and that all the decks are doorways to it, or languages it speaks. While I agree that you can get scattered if there are too many decks, it is possible also that all the images work together to deepen readings. But it does mean you have to take time to really work with the imagery of each deck. I think this is part of what people mean when they talk about bonding with their deck -- it's learning the imagery, the language of the deck so it is an effective doorway. RedMaple

Major Tom	08 Nov 2004
Jewel-ry wrote: I think this is great advice! Does she just have the one deck then? A playing card deck of 52 cards - I'll bet she uses a poker deck - somehow though a bridge deck might be appropriate. :laugh: Good advice for any kind of divination really, whether cards or chicken bones or toothpicks. ;)

Diana	08 Nov 2004
magpie9 wrote: Oh dear, Dark Inquisitor, let's hope the Marsaille-as-only-true-deck crowd miss your post! Why would you hope that? (People can believe what they like. It's a free world. It's spelled Marseille/s, by the way.) To get back to the original post, I also think that eventually, reading the cards becomes a kind of very individual thing. It's as if the cards and the reader set up a kind of a code.... (I'm not anthromorphosing my cards - it's just a figure of speech) and that the reader instantly knows what the Tarot is trying to tell him or her. Like when a Pope comes up in my reading - it 90% of the time represents a school-teacher, a doctor, a vet, or someone in that line. (And only rarely someone of a religious nature.) I've got so used to it that I have to be careful not to jump to conclusions when it comes up... just in case the cards are exceptionally trying to tell me something else. That's why I sometimes find it hard to interpret readings for people on the Reading Exchange (apart from the fact that they use a deck which I am often not acquainted with). Because their cards could very likely have come up specifically for them, and would not have come up for someone else.

Francesca	08 Nov 2004
My deck of playing cards is about 20 or 25 years old. I must have got it when I was twelve or so and it has stuck with me oddly enough through countless moves. Every now and again I'll have my playing cards with me but not my tarot (I rarely cart it around) and when I do lay out the playing cards I get the clearest, simplest, most accurate readings. I rarely do so, though, but it's odd how I've had those cards for so long let alone how effective they are. Francesca

elysgrl	08 Nov 2004
I'm brand new, and I can already see how this is happening, how my deck and I are attuning to each other. It's almost as if my cards know I'm new, so they're making things easy for me. I got the King of Cups a couple times, and I was poring through my books and wracking my brain trying to figure out who this older, wiser man in my life was. Then I was thinking, okay it's not a person, it's an aspect of myself, but that didn't feel right either. Finally, I read that this particular king is the kind of guy who brings you flowers for no reason at all, and it clicked: of course! The King of Cups is my husband! I realized this the very day he surprised me with a beautiful wooden box to store my cards in. But I hadn't been able to see it right away because all the books say the King is an older, wiser man and my husband is six years younger than me. But now it's so obvious: if I'm the queen then of course he's the king. So now when this card comes up, I know exactly what it means for me and I don't have to look anything up. One down, 77 to go..... Blessings, Denise

Mesara	08 Nov 2004
I think what your friend said is very true Phoenix- Decks become very attuned to their readers, and vice versa. I don't believe that the same deck works the same for every person.

Flavio	08 Nov 2004
Phoenix Rising wrote: "When you know your cards so well, it doesn't matter how others interpret it... So once you know them, when you lay those cards out, you will instantly know what it's talking about... Totally agree, when started using the cards I had to open the book FIRST to know which card I picked! and then open AGAIN to know the meaning! when I well knew the cards interpretation of the meanings was much more easy once broken the block of the card image which now is in my mind, currently my cards and I get to know each other, the more we know each other the better the message is received by me. Once I addressed to the forum asking for advice on how to become a serious student, hope the answers on that thread can add to the advice given by your friend.

Pipistrelle	08 Nov 2004
I think this a huge part of reading Tarot (which I'm still very much learning). I find my Crystal Tarot speaks to me through the images. Sometimes during a reading I'll be drawn to a particular part of the image and that will make sense to me in context (however, this is not working so well with the pip cards!) The interpretation I get is sometimes not at all like the "book meaning", however I feel I've read it right - it feels right. During my first reading for someone else, I asked the powers that be (haven't figured out who they are yet) to help me and not be too cryptic. One of the cards was the Empress and I swear she seemed to be almost kicking that moon at her feet trying to draw my attention to it. When I posted my reading and mentioned that I thought time of day had something to do with the problem, turns out it was quite accurate (I just had it the wrong way round - but hey, I'm a newb!) What I'm trying to say rather long-windedly, is that the Tarot speaks to each of us on our particular level. I'm a beginner and I feel the Tarot speaks to me on beginner level. When I've had a bit more practice and I'm more experienced, I'm sure it will start throwing in some wild cards :) Funnily enough though, although I feel the Crystal Tarot does this, I never got it with the Aquarian - my first deck. Interesting thread :) Pip

Little Baron	08 Nov 2004
Thanks for the link Flavio; some really useful and important information there. Yabs

Dark Inquisitor	08 Nov 2004
magpie9 wrote: Oh dear, Dark Inquisitor, let's hope the Marsaille-as-only-true-deck crowd miss your post! But I think you may have something there....just when did the pips aquire meanings, anyway? And how? Lol- yes, my saying that the Hermit is really a BLIND fool and the pips have no original meanings all within 24 hours might be a little unnerving. (Don't tell anyone I said that. ) Pips were just part of the card game (and many other card games) that was around before the majors got inserted later .Probably in the 1300's, maybe even before . I always think psychics must have been naturally reading with playing cards all along .The addition of the majors must have been a stunning jump that made the cards much more easily learnable snd understandable for the average person. (Though that was probably not the original intention.)And therefore much more dangerous to the church and whatever public officials didn't want anyone to know what they were up to. Frankly, I think the majors were introduced to spice up the game, boost sales, and secretly give the lower classes a laugh at the major figures and themes of the day. But the human mind and natural psychic forces hooked in to the unforseen oracle aspect and it went off in a different direction. So , Phoenix Rising-- your friend learned from her grandmother . I love stories like that ! Now all you have to do is find out exactly what grandma said and where grandma learned from , and print it here as soon as possible...

Emerald	08 Nov 2004
I have struggled with several decks and thought that I would never get to grips with the tarot. I have finally found a deck that feels like 'home' and I am very happy with it. I am now settling down to learn/understand. Good advice from your friend.

Keslynn	08 Nov 2004
I think it's less you bonding to a particular deck and more a process of you accumulating experiences and associating them with certain cards. You may have had lots of life experiences before, but once you start using tarot cards, the 2 things are associated. You build up a bank of events that pop into your head when you're reading and are always very appropriate for what the querent is going through too. Humans go through a lot of the same things. That's why I personally don't think that the particular deck matters. I have lots that I rotate through but I still really feel like I'm getting the cards that I need to see (and that my clients need to see). When I first started, I didn't have the bank of experiences or the association with tarot so it was harder to read. As I grew and started seeing things through a tarot lense, I got much better. Still, it's good advice. I really do think you get the information exactly the way you need to get it, whether it's tarot or some other form of divination. :) Kes

carly	12 Nov 2004
about associating(sp?) certain cards with life events, i thought, "I've done quite a few readings now, and I don't think of any events when a familier card comes up", but then, oh yes i do, lol. we've been looking about for a new house, and both on the day that we veiwed the house and the day they exepted, I pulled Knite of Wands. I will always associate this wth moving house now. Just my 2...pence(???). Carly

Kissa	12 Nov 2004
Jewel-ry wrote: For some time I have thought that if we just used one deck we would grow to know it really well and that having too many decks just makes this an impossible task. I have been offloading decks ever since ;) ~ I totally agree with you, Jewel-ry. I have stopped the search for the perfect deck and I am living happily ever after with one deck now. I still have all the others (cannot find time to put them on ebay or have to ask relatives/friends who could be interested). Whatever... Anyway Phoenix Rising's friend said something very clever and probably true as well. BTW I admire readers who can read with non scenic pips, personnally not only do they turn me off but they bore me to death too. I am still hoping I will witness with my own eyes one day a reading with a Marseilles deck or playing cards. Somehow reading about these readings seems unreal: how can ppl make sense of these pips???? ok, ok, if you have to learn numerology and all kind of esoteric meanings from different philosophical movements but I use Tarot for a completely different goal so I've decided not to feel guilty anymore about not being interested in the "source" of all decks. I go for the intuitive thing, that's why I need scenes on all the cards. But still, would like to see someone actually read with those non-scenic pips... Thanks, Phoenix Rising, for sharing your friend's advice. Kissa

ihcoyc	12 Nov 2004
magpie9 wrote: Oh dear, Dark Inquisitor, let's hope the Marsaille-as-only-true-deck crowd miss your post! But I think you may have something there....just when did the pips aquire meanings, anyway? And how? Blasphemy! Everybody knows that the Miss Cleo deck is the One True Tarot. The best guess seems to be that the idea of individual meanings for playing cards was invented in the late eighteenth century. Etteilla may not have been the first, but he was the first in print. Before then, systems of cartomancy existed, but they were a complicated business. You drew cards, and then performed some sort of computation with them, and then looked up the resulting fortune in a book. The fortunes were very specific prophecies about marriages or other misfortunes. There's nothing in these systems that suggest that readers were expected to intuitively read the cards and know their meanings. They essentially used a deck of cards as an elaborate random number generator. Personally, I tend to see the pip cards as cyphers, myself. For the pip cards, suit and number are the main thing. I could read slips of paper that said "8 Cups" on them just as well, I suppose.

Imagemaker	12 Nov 2004
Quote: I could read slips of paper that said "8 Cups" on them just as well, I suppose. I think so, too. Once we've learned meanings, whether from images or number/suit/symbol lessons, we *could* get by with just an identifier. But of course, the fun, mystique, and solace comes from shuffling the cards, the beautiful art, and the hands-on connection with Higher Knowing. I wouldn't have it any other way.

rachelcat	12 Nov 2004
Posted by ihcoyc: The fortunes were very specific prophecies about marriages or other misfortunes. O.k. You've maligned Marseilles and now you're maligning marriage!!! But seriously, folks--Using cards as a random number generator and looking up the meanings in a book? Like the I Ching? Do you know of such books? I'd love to get my hands on one. (But I agree. Bibliomancy is pretty boring when you want a real reading.) I would also love to hear about the traditional playing card meanings handed down from Grandmothers! I have been able to read pretty effectively with playing cards using numerological/kabbalah-based meanings. And if I get stuck, I just visualize the corresponding Hanson-Roberts card! The different courts don't pose much a problem, but readings do seem a bit flat without some majors to spice them up! [i didn't think i was technologically challenged, but i don't know how to do the quote thingy. i'll figure it out eventually, i guess . . .]

ihcoyc	12 Nov 2004
rachelcat wrote: Posted by ihcoyc: The fortunes were very specific prophecies about marriages or other misfortunes. O.k. You've maligned Marseilles and now you're maligning marriage!!! But seriously, folks--Using cards as a random number generator and looking up the meanings in a book? Like the I Ching? Do you know of such books? I'd love to get my hands on one. (But I agree. Bibliomancy is pretty boring when you want a real reading.) The tarot history timeline at The Hermitage says, Quote: 1540-1550 Playing Cards used for Divining in Venice. Francesco Marcolino da Forli, Le Sorti di Francesco Marcolino da Forti in Il Giardino di pensieri (Le Ingeniose Sorte), W 159. No Tarot cards--but definitely cartomancy--cards/pointer + book. Dummett p 94; Kaplan I/28; W. H. Willshire 1876. A descriptive catalogue of playing and other cards in the British Museum (Emmering, Amsterdam, 1975) refers to a complex fortune-telling system using playing cards. “Marcolino uses cards only as a randomizing device, ascribing no particular significance to the cards themselves (of which he uses only the suit of danari and the king, knight, knave, ten, nine, eight, seven, two and ace); they direct a questioner to the pages in the book that tell the future.” There's another site on it here that has more information on this method. My recollection is that you took those cards from the suit of coins, and drew one that referred you to a page, then you drew another that referred you to another set of choices, and finally you drew a third that brought up a specific fortune. No meaning was assigned to any one card; rather, it did in fact work just like the I Ching or some such. There's a set of fortune telling meanings for dice and dominoes that are in a book I have called The Complete Book of Psychics and Fortune Telling that was published back in the early 1960s by some people named Litzka, IIRC. This was in my high school library many years ago as well. There was no system there, no meanings or numerology; you just rolled the dice or picked a domino and read the fortune it corresponded to. If it was on the money, great; if not, tough.

magpie9	12 Nov 2004
ihcoyc said: Quote: Blasphemy! Everybody knows that the Miss Cleo deck is the One True Tarot. Quote: The fortunes were very specific prophecies about marriages or other misfortunes. ROLF :D :D :D

Dark Inquisitor	12 Nov 2004
Kissa wrote: ok, ok, if you have to learn numerology and all kind of esoteric meanings from different philosophical movements but I use Tarot for a completely different goal so I've decided not to feel guilty anymore about not being interested in the "source" of all decks. Kissa The source could turn out to be rather disappointing if one is expecting a grand revelation about the nature of reality and a lofty motive for the cards' reason for being. I think the revelations are more within ourselves and the mystery of oracles and holograms . If one is looking specifically for all kinds of esoterica, I think it was purposely packed into the Rider Waite - although some say imperfectly and incorrectly. I am with you Kissa- hell with it. Better to have fun and be amazed at the intuitive workings of the universe.

Diana	12 Nov 2004
Dark Inquisitor wrote: The source could turn out to be rather disappointing if one is expecting a grand revelation about the nature of reality and a lofty motive for the cards' reason for being. And then again... it could turn out not to be disappointing at all. :)

rachelcat	12 Nov 2004
Thanks for the bibliomancy info and the link. There's always more to learn about tarot--now I have more to learn about divination, too !!! (But isn't it fun!)

The Good advice from a friend on reading the cards thread was originally posted on 07 Nov 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.