"Future" Cards: What One Needs To Believe At The Time?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

noby	10 Dec 2004
My experience as a beginner with tarot cards has been incredible. My readings have been incredibly accurate reflections of what's going on in and around my life, as well as a faithful guide and endless source of wisdom. But for the first time, it looks like the future outcome predicted by a couple of my tarot spreads was incorrect, specifically in that a relationship has gone sour and broken up, whereas the cards seemed to suggest it was going to be a lasting and happy affair. In a relationship spread I did a few months ago, the "future blessing" card was the Six of Cups from the Navigators of the Mystic Sea, keyword felicity. A few weeks ago, I did a spread asking about the direction of the relationship, and the first three cards were very informative about what was going on at the time, but didn't really say much about where things were going, so to clarify, I asked, "Will we break up or not?" and pulled the Two of Cups. Now I know there's many ways to interpret the cards, but of all the cards in the deck, the one I would have chosen to most represent that we weren't going to break up would have been the Two of Cups. Of course, one thing I'm aware of is that the future cannot be predicted specifically. The cards can only show trends and possibilities, which depend on a lot of intervening probabilities to come to fruition, and if certain things happen, the future can move onto a different track. And of course, one can always go back and "re-read" the cards to see how one might have been able to read them in a way which reflects what really happened. For example, I can now see the Six of Cups as saying that the relationship would bring us both happiness during the relationship and after it was over by having helped us grow. I am having a hard time seeing how the Two of Cups in the other spread could have suggested breaking up, though... Another thing I've considered is that those two examples reflected what I really wanted to see and believe at the time. Pondering the future is only as useful as it can affect and inspire action in the present. Seing the promise of an unhappy future in the cards would have stagnated and confused me, while seeing a happy future was what I needed at the time. Believing our relationship was going to work out well as a long-term happy union helped me immerse myself in the relationship. The idea it would last boosted my confidence about the future. Now that it's over, I feel even more confident about the future, but had the cards suggested a breakup at the time I read them, it would have lowered my confidence and prevented me from getting as much out of the relationship as I did. Has anyone else pondered similar thoughts, or noticed a spread in which the future outcome you predicted didn't come to pass, but yet was more helpful to you at the time than a reflection of what really was going to happen would have been?

contradiction	10 Dec 2004
noby, i do understand what you are saying, but i don't think the cards were wrong, i think you misunderstood, what they were saying. the two of cups, (bringing two things together in a good union, (my interpetation)), did not necessarily refer to the relationship. it can also refer to knowledge gained. which would be bringing you and the knowledge together. thereby creating the union between you and the confidence you gained. but, yes i have read the cards to mean one thing and later when something else happened, went back and saw where i read what i wanted, not what the cards were saying. sometimes we get in a habit of interpertating the same meaning for a card every time, and forget to actually listen to what the cards are saying. then when they say something different we miss it. i am most guilty of this. contradiction

dadsnook2000	10 Dec 2004
In the RWS two of cups card, and many other tarot decks, there are two figures, male and female, who are looking at each other. However, each has their own cup. One is standing, one is stepping forward. One is reaching out and one is not. Perhpas one of the meanings of this particular card is not that these two are lovers but that they may be attracted, they may stay attracted later, but they are separate. The passive, tentative poses can suggest two differing approaches to a relationship. Maybe the card's meanings are not that cut and dried -- a lesson for all of us to keep in mind. Dave.

Keslynn	10 Dec 2004
One thing to consider is that things may have changed enough after the reading to alter the course of things. You said you did the reading a few months ago. If a relationship is going through some trouble, then the course can change quite a bit in a short amount of time. The reading is a snapshot in time. As things were going when you did the reading, you were not going to be breaking up in the near future. If you change where you're standing, you change the snapshot. Your relationship changed enough so that the energies and events influencing whether you'd break up had also changed. Ergo, the outcome is different than predicted. That's just my 2 cents. :) Kes

contradiction	10 Dec 2004
dave, you are so right about the meanings not being cut and dried. that is one problem i have had since being here. i not only believe that the cards can alter their meanings but since that is true positional names in a lay-out can also alter slightely, with each reading, especially depending on the card in that position, and have felt that my feelings on this have raised some negative energy. although i don't care, it does irritate me that a group of people as diverse as this, who have come together, seeking a higher knowledge on something as subjective as the tarot, would be so unmoveable about whether or not tarot itself can be subjective. anyway getting off my soapbox. i am glad someone did point this out.

Imagemaker	10 Dec 2004
I agree, contradiction (great name!). And not so much that the cards *change* their meanings as that a card can have so many facets, angles, and applications. If the question allows wiggle room ("will we break up or not?") the 2 cups could reflect the one passive, one active concept mentioned, or merely the exchange of feelings (in the breakup or in the staying-together), or "in this moment you're together. Tomorrow the breakup starts." The only way I can deal with this is to have a simple question in mind (don't add the "or not") and see what the *first thought* is when I look at the card. Is it a flash of "good" or "oh, no!"--unrelated to any set meaning I'd attributed to that card. It's a flash of knowing that logic and analysis quickly bury, may support or not, but it has truth in it.

dadsnook2000	10 Dec 2004
Imagemaker, your mention of a simple, or a direct, question is important in terms of limiting some of the ambiguity of the cards. I believe proper phrasing of a question is a primary key to a good and helpful reading. "Will we break up or not?" is not quite as simple or direct a question as it could be in that it includes two outcomes. Of course, the card involved revealed two outcomes. Being a man, and naturally insensitive to these things (truly), perhaps a question such as "What is required of me to keep this relationship healthy?" or "What does my partner require of me?" could be more productive. I don't know. So often our questions are formed within the context of the conversation and only later do we give ourselves a dumb-slap and say "Oh, why didn't I say that instead?" Dave.

noby	12 Dec 2004
Lots of good points, everyone. And I agree that "Are we going to break up or not?" is not the best question for a tarot spread. The best questions are ones which open up room for a more descriptive answer, one that can depict patterns and tendencies rather than one specific outcome versus another. That said, I though the Two of Cups was as clear an answer as I could have gotten for a not-so-great question for tarot. Keslynn wrote: The reading is a snapshot in time. As things were going when you did the reading, you were not going to be breaking up in the near future. If you change where you're standing, you change the snapshot. Your relationship changed enough so that the energies and events influencing whether you'd break up had also changed. Ergo, the outcome is different than predicted. Great point, and well put. Like you say, when I laid out that spread a few months ago, things were headed towards a happy outcome, but since then, "energies and events" influencing our relationship have changed. And I've thought about one way of seeing the Two of Cups in the more recent spread I did is that love would be a factor in the breakup, but not necessarily in the most obvious way of seeing the card or love's influence on a relationship. As dadsnook2000 points out, it's a shame to get stuck in a rut with always seeing a card in the same routine way. Rather, it could be seen, as the Joy Division song goes, that "love will tear us apart." I simply felt too much for him for me to be able to weather all that was going on in the relationship. Too much had been put on the line for me to back down. And that interpretation goes well with the message of the rest of the spread, which was that it was time to make a stand for myself and stop being such a doormat and pushover. However, I must say that it doesn't sit entirely well with me to do these ex post facto re-interpretations. I'm not a person of faith in that I'm only interested in what works. And if I can only see what a tarot spread was "really saying" in hindsight, then I don't see the worth in that. It's not much use to me to divine a situation after it's already happened. Of course, experiences like this should help me to read more accurately in the future, but I also keep coming back to my original point, which I think is important in light of how I see things. For me, it's a matter of what works at the time, and if an outcome shows me what I need to believe in some way to get the most of the situation at the time, then that's better in my book than seeing an outcome that better reflects what will happen down the road but yet does not help me as much at the time. Seeing a happy future better helped me get what I needed to get out of the relationship at the time, and seeing an unhappy future would not have been helpful, so in the end, it was better that I saw the cards the way I did to begin with.

L'Etoile	12 Dec 2004
Disclaimer: I don't know your whole situation and so therefore cannot definately say what the meaning even MAY HAVE been. But I think, if your relationship was good until the end, the two of cups could have merely been an indication that the relationship would be good while it lasted. Especially if you and your fromer partener stayed friends afterward (I know it's not common but it does happen).

Phoenix Rising	12 Dec 2004
Sometimes a break is as good as a change. Did you consider that you might get back together, after you've had or she's had a time to think. sometimes that's all we need. A Reconciliation?

similia	13 Dec 2004
Hi Noby, I'm a beginner too, (read rank amateur!). I've found it useful when interpreting a card to also think about the cards that didn't show up, especially for a very specific question. In your example a 2 of cups is less permanent than a 10 of cups, or a Lovers etc., so I might think of this card as showing a good relationship, but not necessarily a permanent one. Remembering a few keywords for each of the numbers, and using that to differentiate is really helping me a lot (especially when struggling to remember a meaning or variation of!)

Keslynn	13 Dec 2004
noby wrote: For me, it's a matter of what works at the time, and if an outcome shows me what I need to believe in some way to get the most of the situation at the time, then that's better in my book than seeing an outcome that better reflects what will happen down the road but yet does not help me as much at the time. Seeing a happy future better helped me get what I needed to get out of the relationship at the time, and seeing an unhappy future would not have been helpful, so in the end, it was better that I saw the cards the way I did to begin with. A very good point. Sounds like you got exactly the information that you needed, which ended up being even better than "factual" accuracy. :) Kes

Ivy Rhiannon	15 Dec 2004
noby wrote: Of course, one thing I'm aware of is that the future cannot be predicted specifically. The cards can only show trends and possibilities, which depend on a lot of intervening probabilities to come to fruition, and if certain things happen, the future can move onto a different track...I am having a hard time seeing how the Two of Cups in the other spread could have suggested breaking up, though... You answered your own question noby! At the time when you pulled the two of cups. and inturpreted as not breaking up, it was the path you were on! The future is not definate, and you made a desicion that took you off that path (or your partner did!) Or maybe rather you couldn't see past what you wanted. I am sorry to hear of your breakup, but it is proboly for the best as you said...indacated by the 6 of cups. Good luck, and don't give up!

SunChariot	15 Dec 2004
noby wrote: In a relationship spread I did a few months ago, the "future blessing" card was the Six of Cups from the Navigators of the Mystic Sea, keyword felicity. A few weeks ago, I did a spread asking about the direction of the relationship, and the first three cards were very informative about what was going on at the time, but didn't really say much about where things were going, so to clarify, I asked, "Will we break up or not?" and pulled the Two of Cups. I don't think the way you asked the question was well suited to a yes/no question. There is an easier way to ask a yes/no question. You shuffle the deck so as to reverse some of the cards. Then you pull 3 cards: 1---2---3 Each upright card counts as a yes. Each reversed card counts as no. But the middle card counts twice, so you could have a tie. If it is a tie, it is too soon to tell yet, or it is not to your benefit to have the answer at that time...You could ask the question "Will we break up?" I would leave off the "or not" part, so the asnwer can be easily answered with a yes or no. Hope this helps, I took it from Mary Greer's book, "Tarot for Your Self..." Bar

The "Future" Cards: What One Needs To Believe At The Time? thread was originally posted on 10 Dec 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.