Let's Marseilles group - what have we achieved?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Diana	23 Dec 2004
I have to put this thread here, because the Let's Marseilles forum is for Reading Exchanges only, and general threads are not allowed to be posted there. I would like to ask the people who have participated in the Let's Marseilles group about their impressions now that the sub-forum has been going on for some time, thanks to Charming Pixie's inspiration. Do they feel they have achieved something? Do they feel lost? Comfortable? Happy? Are they satisfied with the learning procedures in place? Are there things they are dissatisfied with? And if so, do they have any ideas on how to improve things? Etc. etc. etc. Thank you in advance for your input.

maria42airam	23 Dec 2004
To me personally, the Lets Marseille! reading circle has been a real eye-opener. First, I met a lot of people on this forum. I had been here only a few weeks and didn't know anyone! Also, I read for a stranger for the first time ever. I found out that the deck of cards that my grandmother had was indeed a Tarot deck and not playing cards! That was illuminating. I learned another way of reading. Until then I had basically gone by book meanings for the RWS deck. And the "every-two-weeks" threads forced me to do readings and study the cards. My Tarot education increased by leaps-and-bounds because of the circle. On my own, just reading books and web-pages, I would never have learned as much. In general terms, I think this type of "reading circle" is a first, no? I haven't been around long, so I don't know if something like this has existed before. Different people learn in different ways; this type of circle allows people to learn by doing.

Moongold	23 Dec 2004
I enjoy using the Marseilles with others. It is much more fun learning in a group. Before the Let's Marseilles forum there was very little chance to see readings actually using the Marseilles deck. Now there is plenty of opportunity. People are creative with reading "projects" as well. Problems? Everything has growing edges. I think we have sorted some of these out and I won't rehash them all. In an affectionate way - the one that bothered me the most was what I perceived to be strong views about the "purist" approach and where authority came from for this. I think we seem to be working that one out. This is being done well I think. Thanks to all concerned with establishing and maintaining this sub-forum :).

Fulgour	23 Dec 2004
[center]I wish I could understand what this thread is supposed to accomplish... is there something to be gained by this, or is the intended purpose to pronounce a verdict upon the present status of a work in progress? Leave it alone, and it will do fine, without any intrusive improvements.[/center]

Diana	23 Dec 2004
No, no verdict. Only seeking people's feelings. (Those who wish to share of course. Those who feel no need to can just pass by happily. :) ) A pause to see the road that we have travelled and where it is taking us. A very Tarotic procedure. Past... Present... Future... I myself have a comment on the Learning Process which I feel is not being exploited enough. I mean the Shared Learning Process. I think people just don't have TIME to go onto other people's threads and give their comments. It seems to becoming less and less of a School, and more and more just an ordinary Reading Exchange. Which is not a bad thing in itself, but then I don't see why a sub-forum is needed. Many of the recent readings could have been put on the ordinary Reading Exchange. Personally, I wish we could find a way to ensure that more people would comment and give their two or three or more cents on each other's readings. Perhaps there are sometimes too many readings going on at the same time? Unless of course, people are not interested anymore in the School idea which was the original inspiration and prefer the Let's Marseilles group just to be a Reading Exchange... I personally would love to hear people's views on this.

Moongold	23 Dec 2004
I can see what you are saying, Fulgour. Perhaps it is too early to review. Solandia did say she would review the sub-forum three months from inception and I think it has only been going for not quite two. CharmingPixe started the reading circle more than three months ago though. I can also understand Diana's commitment to the forum and her enthusiasm about keeping it going and keeping it interesting. Oh well...... I am a compulsve opinion giver :D. Usually if asked, I'll give an opinion.

maria42airam	23 Dec 2004
Diana wrote: I myself have a comment on the Learning Process which I feel is not being exploited enough. I mean the Shared Learning Process. I think people just don't have TIME to go onto other people's threads and give their comments. It seems to becoming less and less of a School, and more and more just an ordinary Reading Exchange. Personally, I don't always feel comfortable commenting on other people's readings unless the reader or querent requested input from others. I'm definitely not saying that other's should not do it, just that I do not feel comfortable with it. If I was experienced and could provide that aspect to the reading, that would be different. This may be silly but I see a reading as similar to a painting. If I were to look at a painting and comment to the painter about the colors s/he chose or the brushes or the angle of the strokes. Now if the painter asked "what do you think of the mixture of these colors?" or "Do you think using a different brush would have helped here?" then I could respond.

Anna	23 Dec 2004
I am glad of the opportunity to have a review! Reviews are important, especially in a non-heriarchical group like ours. I can honestly say that I have learned more about Tarot in the last 3 months or so, through our group work, than I have in the whole 13 years I've been reading cards for. But, in a way, I feel like I've learned enough for now... I feel like I want to take a break to absorb what I've learned and do some study of the history and social and cultural context of the Tarot of Marseilles. And this is what is great about our group, and the fact that it is structured in a non-heirarchical way - I will be able to take a break without feeling that the circle will colapse without me in it!! :) And I was thinking that, even if the circle should reach a point were it does come to an end - that is ok too. There is a natural cycle of things I think. But the great thing about the internet is that the work we have done, all the wonderful threads we have created, they will remain as a testament to the study we've done. Future Marseilles students will be able to read them, and maybe a new Lets Marseilles! will happen (although maybe the person who initiates it will have the sense to call it something less silly! :D) On a personal note: I want to take the opportunity to say thank you to everyone. The inspiriation to start this reading circle came at a time when I'd just been through 2 bereavements very close to each other. This circle was my "thing to feel good about" in the midst of all the sadness I was feeling. Being able to throw myself into organising threads and the excitment and positivity of the whole experience really gave me an anchor to hang onto. Thank you so much everyone!!

Fudugazi	23 Dec 2004
I hope it continues! I am learning so much, and I've only just started. In reading, cards I'd always considered beguiling, but old-fashioned, come alive. I must thank the Charming Pixie for getting me on board, and starting the circle in the first place. I like getting feed-back, but I realise it does take time. For me too! Perhaps a system could be found for feedback - for instance, the two behind us in the circle comment on our reading (and we comment on the two ahead). A bit articificial, I admit, but it would also help us look at other people's readings and wonder what we do have to say about them. Another form of exercise. If we keep the readings over two weeks I hope most people would have the time, no? We could also continue to add our comments to a reading that inspired us, so keep the whole thing flexible.

Diana	23 Dec 2004
CharmingPixie wrote: Thank you so much everyone!! And a heartfelt thank you to you!!! The work you did inspired so many of us. (((((((CharmingPixie)))))))

Eco74	24 Dec 2004
I have learned so much from all this but can also see the point that things have been changing enough to make it difficult to see where it began.. Hopefully we will be able to continue the lighthearted reading where everyone is righ and where we are all free to participate in eachothers readings, should we have something to add. But was this not highlighted already at the beginning? I seem to recall the second readingcircle where fewer comments were added by people and where several of us commented on the fact that the participants had already changed enough so that there was more certainty in them. Still I do read the readings posted by others than me, and I learn so much from it. Maybe we should comment on that aswell, and not just if we have something to add on a reading. Things like "well put, I like that analogy" and such... That would give feedback even when the people reading don't have anything to add on the interpretation.. I also like Helveticas idea on "forced feedback", since the school is all about learning together after all. We may be getting a little too wrapped up in ourselves as it is now and we need to get away from that.

Diana	24 Dec 2004
I very much miss the spirit of the original readings - where everyone jumped in, commented and even said sometimes that they didn't agree and why... It's the sharing that I found so important. That everyone was Teacher and Student. We were not just two people reading for each other, but we were a real community. Like we were all sitting around a table, talking with a cup of coffee and a piece of cake at hand... laughing, smiling, arguing, even getting het up at times, and then sitting down again to continue the discussion. Just like at any family gathering.... I've myself lost a lot of interest in the Sub-Forum, because to me it's turning into a normal Reading Exchange and has lost rapidly what it originally set out to be: a School. Even the fact that we even have to post threads about this school in a separate board makes me feel that something has been lost.... But if most people are happy with that evolution, then that's okay.... But I reckon if it continues to evolve like this, then it will end up being put back in the normal Reading Exchange. ( :( ).

lionette	24 Dec 2004
Hi everyone. I've been hesitant to contribute, primarily because I've been absent from the recent goings-on in Let's Marseilles and don't have a sense of what's happening there now. Diana has spoken well the words which I was struggling to find to explain what I've been feeling about the changes in the Circle/School. Diana wrote: I very much miss the spirit of the original readings - where everyone jumped in, commented and even said sometimes that they didn't agree and why... It's the sharing that I found so important. That everyone was Teacher and Student. We were not just two people reading for each other, but we were a real community. Like we were all sitting around a table, talking with a cup of coffee and a piece of cake at hand... laughing, smiling, arguing, even getting het up at times, and then sitting down again to continue the discussion. Just like at any family gathering.... I've myself lost a lot of interest in the Sub-Forum, because to me it's turning into a normal Reading Exchange and has lost rapidly what it originally set out to be: a School. Honestly, I felt very disappointed during the time of my turn at hosting the readings. All of a sudden the friendly, cozy, warm environment of the Circle changed into something that no longer felt communal, or cozy, or even friendly. And here I feel a confession coming on... And it just happened to be me, during my host session of Dec Energy Readings, that caught the initial round of flack, that inevitably comes along with beginnnings of change, for desiring that the circle keep its original spirit - just for one more round. This is why I decided to step away, quickly and abruptly. Harsh PMs were sent to me as a result of my wish to keep things as they were, to not be flexible with change at that particular moment, due to being busy with other areas of my life and not having the extra time/energy to devote to it, and retain the original aspects of Energy Readings which I'd personally found so helpful and fun at the start of the Circle/School. I was wondering why, all of a sudden, I was unable to keep the original egalitarian feeling of the group -- as Diana so wonderfully put it -- sitting around a table having a chat and a coffee. Why did such change have to happen right then? Didn't realize it had to do with becoming a Sub-forum! :) Yes, the orignal feelings of comradery and the original spirit of the Circle/School is no longer there for me. I'm finding it hard to impossible to rekindle enthusiasm for participating or even reading the threads. This is likely due to my personal preference for a smaller, more intimate scenarios to learn and play with new ideas for the cards. I'm not at all a rigid person, as may be percieved by some, but I've a very bad taste for the power struggles and politics that are natural when any group begins to grow in numbers. Diana wrote: But if most people are happy with that evolution, then that's okay.... [snip] None of this has changed my feelings for the deck, though! I'm still complete enamoured of the Tarot de Marseilles, it's still my only reading deck, and I'll keep checking in -- maybe in time it will come back around to the sort of community I can feel comfortable in. Sorry to go on so long with this! Seems that this is more of a venting than a constructive post -- sorry about that too. I've held my tongue so long in order to interfere with the natural growth of the Circle/School, since I don't generally participate in large groups plus I felt that I was the only one not content with the new aspects of the Circle/School. It's just disappointing to me that I was finally beginning to feel myself in a comfortable, cozy niche at AT and that's no longer there. Ah, such is the speed of life in this ever-changing world! :)

lionette	24 Dec 2004
But I forgot to say a huge thank-you to Charming Pixie for making such effort at starting the group!! I have learned more about reading with the TdM in the past few months than I'd learned about Tarot in all the years before!! :) :) :) Thank-you!!! to CP and to all the others who've contributed enthusiasm and energy to creating a spot for learning to read with this deck! I will use the experiences here as a stepping stone to more TdM study!

Fulgour	24 Dec 2004
Diana wrote: No, no verdict. Only seeking people's feelings. I remember you saying you didn't have "space" to contribute, but were going to make a comment now and then when able. If you had invested one-tenth of the time and energy we've all seen being spent elsewhere, this concern might seem genuine. Le Tarot de Marseille is an easy deck to become acquainted with. All it takes is handling the cards, reaching that level of confidence where the new faces on the Court Arcana become familiar friends, and the inscrutably archaic pips open up to reveal their subtleties. So what about the "Let's Marseille!" Reading Exchange sub-forum? It may be that we never got the chance to find out for ourselves.

fyreflye	24 Dec 2004
-delete-

Fulgour	24 Dec 2004
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=33106 fyreflye wrote: What would be the result of starting a Reading Forum for the Marseille? XVIIII- Le Soleil (Hadar) http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=363765 Such a forum would bring the Marseille, long shunned by most tarotists here, out from behind a wall of misunderstanding and into the full light of day, where those who've been blind to its virtues could receive guidance from those who have come to love it. Just like the different Study Groups in the General forum, it sort of makes sense to allow the Marseille its own spot.

Diana	24 Dec 2004
fyreflye wrote: I do understand that most people on this Forum want to "read" the tarot, but I think understanding it is something quite different. The Historical Forums have always been useful for understanding the TdM and AFAIK there's never been a "reading" done there. What were we supposed to learn from the Marseille Reading Circle other than how to use a particular deck to play the same old game? fyreflye: What does AFAIK mean? To your question "What were we supposed to learn (.....) other than how to use a particular deck to play the same old game?" Speaking for myself only (obviously), I was looking for a place where I could study the Marseilles deck in a practical manner. I love the Historical Forum.... it is what keeps me from logging-in to Aeclectic each day. Even when I left Aeclectic actively for a couple of months earlier this year, I would regularly log-in just to drink in some of the posts that were being made there. But I was longing also for a space where we would be able to use the Tarot for practical purposes. To put our understanding of the Marseilles into practice. I thought that by perhaps getting a card, let's say, the 7 of Cups, in a reading, we would use that reading to discuss the 7 of Cups in length. What a 7 was, what it wasn't. So we would be discussing numerology. Which numerology? Pythagorean? If so, why? If not, why not? Then we would discuss Cups. Water element. Why water? Who said the Cups is a Water element? Are we so certain? If so, why? If not, why not? Colours? Why is red an active colour? Are we sure? Or are we just putting our pre-conceived ideas into this colour? And we could then discuss how a 7 of Cups countered by a, let's say, 3 of Batons, would change that energy. And why... It was not so much the intuition that I personally was interested in, even though I think that intuition can play a very important part in doing accurate readings for people. I was hoping that we would thrash out each detail, each element. Make sure that we were studying only the Tarot of Marseilles... and not bringing our pre-conceived ideas about the cards which we have learned in modern books (usually based on Golden Dawn stuff) into it. I was then thinking that if after thrashing all this out, we realised that perhaps the RWCS or the Thoth or the Smurf meaning was similar... we could then say: "Hey, that's interesting... the Smurf meaning is not so far off". In this case, this would have been a bridge to other Tarot traditions. But I am not sure that a Reading Exchange was the right place for this kind of Thrashing Out. Perhaps it is the title of the forum that is misleading... Perhaps we should have called it: "Reading the Tarot of Marseilles School." But then again... that is just what I was hoping for... and if most people are satisfied with the way things have evolved, then like I said, that's okay for me to. I still think thought that there is a place for both things though. People who just want to do normal Reading Exchanges and also the School aspect (thrashing out). Possibly individuals who want to could start up a reading thread stating that this particular reading is made for Thrashing Things Out. I mean, it's the person who starts the thread that can say what they want and what they don't want.... Just like someone can say: "I prefer no third-parties to comment", someone could say: "I would like as many people as possible to participate in this thread to comment, argue, debate, bring insights - even if it goes on for pages and pages." So perhaps there is room for all the needs here. When a member wrote to me yesterday about my thread that I started here and said: "Let's just get on with our readings", I was a bit taken aback... because I don't ONLY want to do readings and I thought that that was not what Charming Pixie had set out only to do. I want to LEARN about the Tarot of Marseilles. Just Readings I can do for my cat, or even my kettle.

maria42airam	24 Dec 2004
I want to take the opportunity that this thread is here in the Using Tarot Cards forum for a commericial break :) The next round of Energy Readings is starting in the Lets Marseille! reading circle sub-forum. Here is the thread if you want to join up: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35043. We have eight people at the moment that are participating. This is a 2 card spread, so it's perfect for anyone that wants to join us for the first time. If you do not have a deck, you can see the images here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=32939. You can shuffle, cut and deal with your own deck, then use the Hadar images for the reading. All the previous activities, plus the "mission statement" and suggested links, etc. can be found here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=32995 I'll be posting the reading list for this round on Sunday.

Fudugazi	25 Dec 2004
Diana wrote: But I was longing also for a space where we would be able to use the Tarot for practical purposes. To put our understanding of the Marseilles into practice. I thought that by perhaps getting a card, let's say, the 7 of Cups, in a reading, we would use that reading to discuss the 7 of Cups in length. What a 7 was, what it wasn't. So we would be discussing numerology. Which numerology? Pythagorean? If so, why? If not, why not? Then we would discuss Cups. Water element. Why water? Who said the Cups is a Water element? Are we so certain? If so, why? If not, why not? Colours? Why is red an active colour? Are we sure? Or are we just putting our pre-conceived ideas into this colour? And we could then discuss how a 7 of Cups countered by a, let's say, 3 of Batons, would change that energy. And why... I see what you mean Diana, and I agree. I am very new to the Tarot de Marseille, and need that kind of feedback to my uncertain readings. But I don't get them - and you have not given me any either. If that is the kind of feedback you crave, why don't you start the ball rolling by giving some yourself? We learn through imitation. If I saw people writing that kind of comment, I would try my hand at some myself, at the risk of being totally off-track. But as you say, that's how we learn!!

Fudugazi	25 Dec 2004
Diana wrote: Just Readings I can do for my cat, or even my kettle. Reading for cats is very complicated. I'd start with kettles. I assure you, if I ever see a reading done for either, I shall give oodles of feedback ;)

Black*Cat	25 Dec 2004
edited

tmgrl2	25 Dec 2004
Simply put for me. We have the Reading Exchange for the TdM. To keep it, perhaps, each time we start a new round, the reader and sitter(s) can merely say if they have a preference, for example, that feedback remain within their reading. Otherwise, it will be assumed that the "School" aspect applies. That way those that want to discuss alternate meanings or the meanings originally given by the reader, or who wish to add something to the reading in terms of interpretation, can have that if they set no parameters before the reading re comments from outside their reading. I know that would make me feel comfortable joining in again. Also, Diana, it really helps others (as least I think that's what I am hearing) if you do at least one reading within each circle and then the feedback you give and get from your Querent is in itself a marvelous lesson. That was why I ALWAYS loved reading your Advice for the Week threads. I learned from YOUR participation and exchange with the sitters that jumped in for advice. I loved it!! That said, let's just get on with the Let's Marseille as a Reading Exchange for the Marseille decks and as, Fulguor said, let the process be the journey and the lesson. If it works, it will be obvious as time passes, because more people will join or at least those who joined initially will stay and each individual can access this exchange with guidelines that fit their comfort level. It really just "began" and is finding its path. Now that I am retired, I may jump in again, but for me, I will express that whether I am the sitter or the reader, I would prefer that feedback remain within our own group. If someone is assigned to me who isn't comfortable with that, I will gladly back out that week and let the other person(s) be given another reader or sitter. terri

Fudugazi	25 Dec 2004
Black*Cat wrote: As I see it, using the TdM for practical, day to day kinds of situations such as 'Should I take back my boyfriend?' is exactly what we've been trying to learn about in the Let's Marseille group. Are these cards relevant to our daily lives or should they be put aside for esoteric or spiritual study? I don't see any contradiction between deep spiritual study and everyday life, quite the opposite: it is often by taking humble roads that we reach noble goals. Separating daily, material lives (my boyfirend, my cat, my kettle) and our spiritual aspirations just perpetuates the error of separating body, spirit and soul, when we are one. The Tarot, a splendid spiritual tool, also shows scenes of people and situations. From the start, these cards, linked to alchemy, integrated matter and spirit, the daily and the eternal, by showing a way through one to the other. So by asking "should I take back my boyfriend?" we might be given the opportunity to travel far and deep into our truths and motivations, into our relationships with others; at the same time we are given an opportunity to see the spiritual in the everyday. Love is at the heart of that question: how could we see it otherwise than both materially and spiritually?

Fudugazi	25 Dec 2004
tmgrl2 wrote: To keep it, perhaps, each time we start a new round, the reader and sitter(s) can merely say if they have a preference, for example, that feedback remain within their reading. I completely understand those who want to keep it a two-way process, but in that case, why not keep those readings to private messages? The way I see it, on a public forum open to all, all should be able to comment and participate to all readings, within the limits of respect and good nature.

tmgrl2	25 Dec 2004
Helvetica wrote: I completely understand those who want to keep it a two-way process, but in that case, why not keep those readings to private messages? The way I see it, on a public forum open to all, all should be able to comment and participate to all readings, within the limits of respect and good nature. If this is the general consensus, then I shall just bow out. No worries, I use the Tarot de Marseille for my "live" readings, and will follow those done by reading them in the Let's Marseille. terri

Diana	25 Dec 2004
Helvetica wrote: If that is the kind of feedback you crave, why don't you start the ball rolling by giving some yourself? We learn through imitation. If I saw people writing that kind of comment, I would try my hand at some myself, at the risk of being totally off-track. But as you say, that's how we learn!! I have started up a thread yesterday. :) (In the sub-forum). Actually, the first readings that were done in the sub-forum were the kind I crave but then they kind of petered off, I think due to the sheer amount of readings that were being done. (Which is a good thing, because it showed that people were eager to learn and read with the Marseilles, but it kind of removed the excitement of the first readings.)

Alrisha	25 Dec 2004
Would someone plz post a link to the Let's marseilles thread?

Diana	25 Dec 2004
Alrisha: All the Let's Marseilles threads are in a sub-forum in the Reading Exchange. So click on Reading Exchange, and at the top, you'll see a sub-forum called "Let's Marseilles". :) The thread I started up yesterday to do what I really want to get out of that particular sub-forum is here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35124

Diana	25 Dec 2004
Helvetica wrote: Reading for cats is very complicated. I'd start with kettles. I assure you, if I ever see a reading done for either, I shall give oodles of feedback ;) Helvetica: I will do a reading for my kettle in January. Right now, I don't have the time....

Alrisha	25 Dec 2004
Thx Diana =D There are study groups from Thoth to Gay tarot, so why isn't there a marseilles'???? Just seems odd to me.

firemaiden	25 Dec 2004
There is a Marseille study group. It is the historical forum. The historical forum began as a card by card study group of the Marseille. Those threads are still there and can still be added to. It is always ongoing.

punchinella	26 Dec 2004
But you know--when I pull a card, and can't figure out the practical meaning, the Historical Forum is not really the place to go for help . . . Maybe for others it is, but for me--if I'm confused already--it only tends to intensify the befuddlement. Diana wrote: Speaking for myself only (obviously), I was looking for a place where I could study the Marseilles deck in a practical manner. I love the Historical Forum.... it is what keeps me from logging-in to Aeclectic each day. Even when I left Aeclectic actively for a couple of months earlier this year, I would regularly log-in just to drink in some of the posts that were being made there. But I was longing also for a space where we would be able to use the Tarot for practical purposes. To put our understanding of the Marseilles into practice. I too have longed for practical threads on specific Marseilles cards. The threads in the historical forum are so--well, you know--esoteric?? I love them, but . . . So, then, when assistance is called for--I meander over to the "using tarot" forum, where I can quickly find practical threads on each & every card . . . only to begin reading . . . & realize that the meanings etc. being discussed have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Marseilles decks, & simply do not apply, or help me in any way. Aaargh. But, the Marseilles reading exchange, in so much as I've participated in it, hasn't helped me to understand card meanings either. In fact, quite the contrary . . . I think Diana's point is a good one, that if there were few enough readings to allow other Marseille-ers to step in & comment, then maybe contradictions & questions brought to light in readings could eventually be resolved. (??) --Instead, my experience has been that they stay unresolved. And, because there's not enough general discussion, disagreement within a reading thread feels awkward. If more people were involved in the threads, then there would be more opinions total, & disagreement would maybe not feel like such a catastrophe. !?!

Moongold	26 Dec 2004
tmgrl2 wrote: If this is the general consensus, then I shall just bow out. No worries, I use the Tarot de Marseille for my "live" readings, and will follow those done by reading them in the Let's Marseille. terri I would feel quite happy for people to stipulate that they did not want contributions or discussions from others included in their readings but I would prefer that to be a case by case decision between pairs, not a group decision. That is the way it works now in the Reading Exchange. I think you would find there that people are generally happy to simply pair off. It's rare to get third party involvement. There is nothin to stop discussions on card interpretations and reading styles etc in the current Let's Marseilles sub-forum. I think the way the Let's Marseilles forum is working now is very good. I learn a lot from reading each thread, including the commentaries from others. We are not going to get a system which suits everyone all the time. Needs and interests change also so that is never going to happen. People learn in different ways. We should be able to accommodate most of them in the various forums that currently exist. JMD has just started up a new series of threads in one of the traditional Marseilles forums about how people would read Marseilles cards in a contemporary reading. It is very promising. I've joined Diana's "thrashing out" group this week because I'm curious to see how that will be. It sounds simply like an ordinary discussion to me but I could be wrong. I can't find the actual comment by Fulgour but I like what he is reported to have said - let the process take place - it will have its own evolution, provide its own answers.

Diana	26 Dec 2004
Moongold wrote: II've joined Diana's "thrashing out" group this week because I'm curious to see how that will be. It sounds simply like an ordinary discussion to me but I could be wrong. Oh yes. It will just be a discussion. That's what one does on internet forums: discuss things. I don't know if it will be an ordinary discussion, but probably. Extraordinary is pretty too much to hope for. But with a bit of luck it will not be too ORDERLY.... (I quite enjoy a bit of off-topic stuff in threads. Makes it more sort of natural, like a discussion over the dinner table with friends. As long as we get back on track after a while....)

jmd	26 Dec 2004
I've just read through this thread... where's the 'thrashing out group'? And what is it to thrash out?!?

Moongold	26 Dec 2004
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35124

Diana	26 Dec 2004
jmd wrote: I've just read through this thread... where's the 'thrashing out group'? And what is it to thrash out ?!? You didn't read it properly then. I gave a link to my particular thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35124 We're to thrash out a reading I'm doing. Even trash my original interpretation and replace it if in the end we realise that my interpretations of the cards are nonsensical. It's not the interpretation that is so important... it's How We Get To The Interpretation. If I interpret the 3 of Swords as heartache :D :D :D or the 10 of Swords as someone lying half unconscious on a beach with the sun setting slowly on him :( :( :( , then I'm expected to prove to people why it is so.... and not just say "Oh, I read that in a book", or "My experience has always been that..". And other people will have to do the same. We will discuss the cards. Intuition will play only a small part in this particular reading. (If at all.) It's a way to discuss the cards in a practical manner and not just a theoretical manner. But there is no more room for any thrashers. We have enough thrashers for the moment. If anyone else wants to thrash, they have to open their own thrashing thread.

jmd	26 Dec 2004
I guess you're correct - I did not read it properly as suggestive of a thrashing out... Thanks both for the link (now the link's there three times :D)

punchinella	26 Dec 2004
Gee, do I feel like an idiot, or what! I post a long-winded thing griping about the lack of practical-interpretation wisdom in the History forum, & Jmd's new how-would-it-be-read threads are sitting there all the while unbeknownst to me . . . I'm blushing, really blushing. Now THAT'S embarassing. (Just couldn't let it pass without commenting on how embarassed I am . . . ) (And, for the record, it isn't just the History forum I've been dodging lately but all of AT--very very very busy--but that doesn't really make it any better . . . it's still very very very embarassing . . . )

Diana	27 Dec 2004
punchinella wrote: Gee, do I feel like an idiot, or what! I post a long-winded thing griping about the lack of practical-interpretation wisdom in the History forum, & Jmd's new how-would-it-be-read threads are sitting there all the while unbeknownst to me . . . I'm blushing, really blushing. Now THAT'S embarassing. (Just couldn't let it pass without commenting on how embarassed I am . . . ) Punchinella: jmd's threads are VERY new so how could you have known he had started them up? But even there, I have noticed little discussion up to now, and mostly just people's takes on the cards. Which is useful. Very useful indeed... but... the purpose of internet Forums is Discussion. Not just giving out of Information. I have this funny feeling that if someone dared to challenge someone's interpretation, that it would not be well accepted by some people. And someone's ego would get in the way. Jmd's threads will serve a wonderful purpose. And what people gain from them should hopefully allow them to use what they have learned there for PRACTICAL purposes in the Let's Marseilles sub-forum (called unfortunately a Reading Exchange). But even on this Sub-Forum, discussions are needed. Otherwise we are not going to be able to grow beyond our own private and often skewed vision of the cards. (Our ego takes over again. Discussing the readings helps us to see where our ego starts and ends.) Now, a plain ordinary Reading Exchange does not need a sub-forum. It would be a waste of space and in my opinion would even be harmful, as it cuts us off from the rest of the forum. A Study Group (which is what the Let's Marseilles forum set out to be originally) does not cut us off, because there are lots of Study Groups on the boards already so we are just one amongst the others. Our particular sub-forum happens to be a bit different to the other Study Groups because we start out with doing Readings. (It's the word "Reading Exchange" which is unfortunate, I think.)

Fulgour	27 Dec 2004
Diana wrote: Jmd's threads will serve a wonderful purpose. And what people gain from them should hopefully allow them to use what they have learned there for PRACTICAL purposes in the Let's Marseilles sub-forum (called unfortunately a Reading Exchange). But even on this Sub-Forum, discussions are needed. Otherwise we are not going to be able to grow beyond our own private and often skewed vision of the cards. (Our ego takes over again. Discussing the readings helps us to see where our ego starts and ends.) My ego starts I know not where, it runs me round from here to there! And just when bad had gotten worse, I find I have another curse: Often skewed, my private visions causing even more divisions ~ what can I do, Dear Oracle, for I'm no longer PRACTICAL. :)

Fudugazi	27 Dec 2004
Fulgour wrote: My ego starts I know not where, it runs me round from here to there! And just when bad had gotten worse, I find I have another curse: Often skewed, my private visions causing even more divisions ~ what can I do, Dear Oracle, for I'm no longer PRACTICAL. :) Thank you, dear Fulgour, I am posting that one somewhere (when my ego gives me permission).

TemperanceAngel	06 Jan 2005
Just briefly (I will probably add more later...) first of all I want to thank CP so much for being so organised and thoughtful and welcoming. You always PM'd me even if I hadn't participated for awhile....amazing dedication :) And maria, your work has been marvelous too :D For the time being I would just like to say that the Let's Marseilles has been, in my own humble opinion, the best study group I have ever known on the net. It truly is awesome. And not just that, but you get to read for people you have seen around on AT but never really chatted with them. I love getting to know new folk :) Raising my glass to the Let's Marseilles Forum :D:D:D

Moongold	06 Jan 2005
Diana wrote: But even there, I have noticed little discussion up to now, and mostly just people's takes on the cards. Which is useful. Very useful indeed... but... the purpose of internet Forums is Discussion. Not just giving out of Information. I have this funny feeling that if someone dared to challenge someone's interpretation, that it would not be well accepted by some people. And someone's ego would get in the way. Speaking for myself, sometimes the way people do things causes the problem. People are usually open to anything provide they understand the ground rules and the challenge is delivered with respect. Also understanding the precarious nature of internet forums is really valuable. Threads are wide thoroughfares and people can get sideswiped or overlooked altogether in the discussions. Two or three people fixated on their own thoughts can easily overlook other people who may also have something to say or contribute. Diana, I think the way you managed the Threshing/Thrashing thread was really good and I learned a lot from it. That sort of discussion is invaluable. Thank you for that example. It was fun as well.

The Let's Marseilles group - what have we achieved? thread was originally posted on 23 Dec 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.