permission or not?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Rosanne	14 Dec 2004
Has anyone ever done a spread for someone without their permission? I have never done so, feeling somehow it is like being a voyeur. A bit like psychic rape to be melodramtic. I would like to do a spread for a friend who holds no truck with Tarot, so seeking permission is a moot point. I would like to answer some of her questions about the path she is choosing with Tarots help.

Phoenix Rising	14 Dec 2004
Hi Nice to see another NZder on here, there's not many of us. But to answer your question, I think alot of readers don't like to intrude on others privacy for ethical reasons, or so they say. But for me personally, if I think i can help a friend of family member without them knowing, and then relay it in a way that they don't suspect I've snooped in the cards, then hey, what harm can it do, when it could offer help? Your intention is a good one, not to cause harm so I wouldn't feel to guilty or worried about it. Others may have a different take on it, but that's there personal opinions and beliefs. There should never be any rules, limits and restrictions on tarot. Only not to use it to do harm. Welcome

contradiction	14 Dec 2004
anyone that knows me, and knows i read, knows i am going to use the cards, unless they ask me not to. but if i am going to do a reading, without their knowledge i try to keep things in general terms, so that i do not learn anything that person does not want me to know. aamf, i will usually tell the cards, that is my intent before shuffling. they will honor that request, unless it is something very important, that i must know to help, and then the details are vague. but if you feel that it is not the right thing to do in a particular situation i would not do it. the cards will know. contradiction

sognodinverno	14 Dec 2004
I prefer the persons ask to me to read my cards but sometime I feel inside me something and so I must read for someone. Before I was afraid about this, I can see only a bad things but now I don't stop myself and so, also a couple of day ago, I read for my friend about his job, they were very very beautiful. I like when the reading show very fine cards! sognodinverno

Thirteen	14 Dec 2004
I only read for people who ask for a reading...BUT, what if they ask me, "What's the problem with this person? How can I help them?"--if their quesion involves, say, a friend or relative. Am I then doing a reading about someone else without their permission...well, yeah. But then, that's what we humans do. We ask each other for advice on each other. "I've got a friend. I want to be there for them, but they're not talking to me. What do you think I should do?" And you ask some questions, and you say, "It seems to me that your friend has this problem, or that, maybe you should...." Right? And we humans sometimes don't ask for help when we should, and sometimes we stoically wait for someone to offer help without letting anyone know we're in trouble--we expect people to be mindreaders. Which is why I have no trouble doing readings on others. I trust the tarot will tell me (and the querent) if it's none of my business. I trust the tarot will tell me and the querent if that other person is in trouble and needs help. I trust the tarot will tell me and the querent how this person can be helped if they can. And, of course, if this person has anything to do with the querent, well, then it's their business as much as that other person's business. We humans, finally, are rarely completely separate from each other. We influence and involve others. So another person's business is our own if it impacts on our life. At least, that's how I see it.

WhiteRaven	14 Dec 2004
Thirteen wrote: I only read for people who ask for a reading...BUT, what if they ask me, "What's the problem with this person? How can I help them?"--if their quesion involves, say, a friend or relative. Am I then doing a reading about someone else without their permission...well, yeah. But then, that's what we humans do. We ask each other for advice on each other. "I've got a friend. I want to be there for them, but they're not talking to me. What do you think I should do?" And you ask some questions, and you say, "It seems to me that your friend has this problem, or that, maybe you should...." Right? And we humans sometimes don't ask for help when we should, and sometimes we stoically wait for someone to offer help without letting anyone know we're in trouble--we expect people to be mindreaders. Which is why I have no trouble doing readings on others. I trust the tarot will tell me (and the querent) if it's none of my business. I trust the tarot will tell me and the querent if that other person is in trouble and needs help. I trust the tarot will tell me and the querent how this person can be helped if they can. And, of course, if this person has anything to do with the querent, well, then it's their business as much as that other person's business. We humans, finally, are rarely completely separate from each other. We influence and involve others. So another person's business is our own if it impacts on our life. At least, that's how I see it. I echo Thirteen's thoughts on this. I can't find anything else to say but to agree with Thirteen's take on readings and some questions that are posed by querants. For the most part, just about every reading will have something to do with someone else and that "someone else" doesn't know that they've landed in your querant's or your own spread.

sognodinverno	15 Dec 2004
For me the core of the questions is: we do a reading to see if there is all ok or we want to intromit in the privacy? I ask to myself this before and sometime I ask to the other: why you want a reading for this person? Sognodinverno

similia	15 Dec 2004
I agree with everyone else. Its very different to ask if something will work out for a friend, or how you could help them etc., to asking about something that is none of your business. Maybe ask about your intent, or ask the card's for guidance or permission before you ask the question.

Osher	15 Dec 2004
A friend asked me for a reading about this boy. I refused, on the grounds that it is his story, not hers. However, I said I could read about the relationship between the two of them, from the context of her. I believe it is wrong to read for someone else, without their permission.

raeanne	15 Dec 2004
Osher wrote: A friend asked me for a reading about this boy. I refused, on the grounds that it is his story, not hers. However, I said I could read about the relationship between the two of them, from the context of her. I believe it is wrong to read for someone else, without their permission. Hi Osher, Could you give me an example of the question your friend originally asked? I am having trouble understanding why people think it is wrong to read about others. You said you would read about a relationship between your friend and this boy but you refused to read just about the boy. I can't think of any question that your friend could have asked that doesn't in some way connect to a relationship between the two of them: Does he like me? What kind of person does he like? (aka Will he like me?) How can I make him happy? All of these questions are really about the possibility of a relationship between the two of them. The only questions I can think of that don't have anything to do with a relationship between them are totally useless information that I don't think anyone would be asking the Tarot about anyway: Did he have Fruit Loops for breakfast? Boxers of briefs? (Well, maybe even that one is also about a relationship between them...he, he, he) Anyway, please help me understand what the difference is because I just don't see it. I have always believed that it isn't about the question but it is all about your intent. I would really appreciate it if you could help me understand the kind of questions you wouldn't want to read. Thanks.

Emily	15 Dec 2004
I read for my husband without him knowing when I feel I might be able to offer help if something is troubling him and I've read for my Mom when she was ill - I needed to know how she was feeling when she wouldn't talk about her illness. Neither my Mom or husband believe in the tarot so I don't see why they should be bothered about me reading for them without their knowledge.

jumptothemoonyea	15 Dec 2004
this is interesting, i see tarot cards as extension of our regular senses - smell, touch, hearing, sight and taste, as physical projection of our 6th or 7th sense. We usually have control over 5 senses, when and how to use them, but 6th sense, this knowing? can we control it? Many of you don't need cards to Know the answer - it is there anyway, you don't need cards to project the picture. How to define the rules for reading somebody's thoughts, or energies? Turn on, turn off knowing?

tatsi	15 Dec 2004
raeanne wrote: Hi Osher, Could you give me an example of the question your friend originally asked? I am having trouble understanding why people think it is wrong to read about others. You said you would read about a relationship between your friend and this boy but you refused to read just about the boy. I can't think of any question that your friend could have asked that doesn't in some way connect to a relationship between the two of them: Does he like me? What kind of person does he like? (aka Will he like me?) How can I make him happy? All of these questions are really about the possibility of a relationship between the two of them. The only questions I can think of that don't have anything to do with a relationship between them are totally useless information that I don't think anyone would be asking the Tarot about anyway: Did he have Fruit Loops for breakfast? Boxers of briefs? (Well, maybe even that one is also about a relationship between them...he, he, he) Anyway, please help me understand what the difference is because I just don't see it. I have always believed that it isn't about the question but it is all about your intent. I would really appreciate it if you could help me understand the kind of questions you wouldn't want to read. Thanks. I agree with the reasoning people gave for when and why they read cards for people not there. When we do this it's typically because we have a *relationship* to that person, so the question we ask affects us in some way. For example: What does he think of me? and How well is my mother handling the illness? tatsi

tmgrl2	15 Dec 2004
If I pull a card or do a spread about another person... If it is for information as to how I should deal with this person, then it is a reading for me. If someone else asks me about another person they are having difficulty with, then I would do the reading for the person who came to me and give them guidance from the reading in what THEY themselves can do in regards to this other person or situation. I may, if it's private, give the person some information that comes up in relation to this other person..but it would be guidance for the sitter. Isn't this what we do when we do a relationship spread. Part of the spread is about the sitter, part of it is about another person, and part may be about the relationship itself. The guidance, though, is always directed to my sitter in terms of what advice I can give THEM pertaining to this other person or relationship. terri

Rosanne	15 Dec 2004
Thanks everyone for your replies. I will go ahead and do a reading slanting my question perhaps "What can I guide my friend with on her path?" I feel alot more comfortable knowing that the prime ethic is 'to do no Harm'. I won't be so precious in future. Regards Rosanne

raeanne	16 Dec 2004
tatsi wrote: I agree with the reasoning people gave for when & why they read cards for people not there. When we do this it's typically because we have a *relationship* to that person, so the question we ask affects us in some way. For example: What does he think of me? and How well is my mother handling the illness? tatsi Hi Tatsi, I can understand why people DO read for someone without their permission but I don't understand why they DON'T. I would like for someone to give me an example of when they would refuse to read for someone. For me it isn't a matter of "having permission", but more a question of "why do you want to know that information" and "what do you intend to do with it once you have it". This has nothing to do with knowing a person or not knowing them; having permission or not having permission. I really want to understand other people's viewpoint. If someone could please give me an example of the kind of question they wouldn't ask about someone without their permission, perhaps I can better understand this viewpoint. It seems like some people are saying it is unethical to read without permission but then they read for public figures, people in the news, this exception, that exception and somehow this is OK. I just don't get how that works. If I have permission from someone I still don't think that gives me a "blank check" to ask anything I want about them. Anyway, if someone could give me an example of something they would consider unethical, I think I would better understand this viewpoint.

tatsi	16 Dec 2004
raeanne wrote: Hi Tatsi, I can understand why people DO read for someone without their permission but I don't understand why they DON'T. I would like for someone to give me an example of when they would refuse to read for someone. For me it isn't a matter of "having permission", but more a question of "why do you want to know that information" and "what do you intend to do with it once you have it". This has nothing to do with knowing a person or not knowing them; having permission or not having permission. I really want to understand other people's viewpoint. If someone could please give me an example of the kind of question they wouldn't ask about someone without their permission, perhaps I can better understand this viewpoint. It seems like some people are saying it is unethical to read without permission but then they read for public figures, people in the news, this exception, that exception and somehow this is OK. I just don't get how that works. If I have permission from someone I still don't think that gives me a "blank check" to ask anything I want about them. Anyway, if someone could give me an example of something they would consider unethical, I think I would better understand this viewpoint. Ok, I see what you mean. I do agree it isn't as much a matter of permission as it is why someone wants to know or the intent of that knowledge (especially when it has no direct or indirect meaning to the querent's life or relationship to that person). When I feel that the question posed is voyeristic, then I won't do the reading. Here are some examples off the top of my head: What was the circumstances on why so-and-so quit or why they were fired? Why did so-and-so move, change jobs, get divorced, not have children, or decided to have many children? To me, these are all voyeristic questions that the querent has no right to ask a reading of -- at least not from me. As far as questions about public figures, it depends on the question. If it deals with their public job or the ability to hold, keep or do their job, or it has a direct bearing on someone's life (such as those in the military), I would do a reading. I hope this has helped. tatsi

raeanne	17 Dec 2004
Hi Tatsi, Thanks for your post! I think I am beginning to understand. I think we are all kind of on the same page but just using different words. I had suspected this but wasn't quite sure. What some people call "without permission" falls under my "why do you need to know that" category. I could probably think of a situation where I would read the cards for all the scenarios that you posted but I get the general idea. Reading the cards to get “inside” information just so you can show off or use the information in harmful ways is unethical in my book but for me this would apply whether I had permission or not.

tatsi	17 Dec 2004
Hi Raeanne, I'm glad I could help. And your right, I think we are pretty much saying the same thing, only using different words. tatsi

Adjustment	20 Dec 2004
Here is a good thread that talk about reading for someone without their permision.[[url]http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=9105][/url]

Apollonia	20 Dec 2004
I don't have much of a problem reading for another person on a question like, "Why did my friend lose her temper with me the other day?" but a recent query I received was, "Is my ex-boyfriend happy with his new wife?" and I think that definitely falls into the category of "Why do you want to know this?" It just felt creepy. So I turned the question around to, "What do I most need to know about myself regarding this situation?" She probably didn't like the answer, but that's Tarot for you. But I do readings on total strangers sometimes, to help myself understand their actions. The other day a guy at Target totally lost his temper at me for something I said quite innocuously. It frightened me, because he was just trembling with rage. I couldn't stop thinking about it, and why he would have such a short fuse, or whether I actually did something horrible and couldn't see myself clearly. So I did a Celtic Cross on him, asking, "What was the deal with that guy at Target?" I added a card to show what filter he was processing our interaction through (9 of Swords--too little sleep). I saw that he was just so stressed out and tired, and then when I got to "Hopes and Fears" it was the 4 of Swords (Gilded), and I just melted--all he wanted was to somehow get through this and be able to take a nap! Previous to doing the reading, I was thinking all sorts of horrible things about him, but afterwards, I found it so easy to forgive him for having a meltdown like a toddler. Blessings, Amanda

sognodinverno	21 Dec 2004
When I refuse? When my mom ask if my brother's girl friend. Sognodinverno

The permission or not? thread was originally posted on 14 Dec 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.