Haunted by The Hierophant

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

willowberry	24 Jan 2005
Good morning everyone, well I guess that depends where in the world you all are...I am haunted by the hierophant, he pops up in all my readings for myself and keeps throwing himself out of the deck whilst shuffling and then as a daily card. I now am completely blocked and can't decipher what he's trying to tell me. The nature of the spreads I've been doing are simple 'how am i' spreads and also to decipher whether a coven leader I've been in talks with about joining them will actually come up trumps and get round to teaching me. Other cards that have been surfacing are the eight of cups and the hermit. Help!! My spiritual sanity depends on it. sort of. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fulgour	24 Jan 2005
Docteur Gérard (Anaclet Vincent) Encausse (1865 - 1916 e.v.) http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/papus.htm "The Hierophant" was given to us by Gérard Encausse aka Papus, a step up from the Medieval name of "Le Pape" or The Pope, but one more modern possibility might be Visionary: having or marked by foresight and imagination : a visionary leader characterized by visions or the power of vision able or likely to see visions : disposed to reverie or imagining : dreamy incapable of being realized or achieved : utopian : a visionary scheme existing only in imagination : unreal

Greyling	24 Jan 2005
Good morning, willowberry. If it's not too personal, could you tell us more about your relationship with the coven leader who you wish to be your teacher? He could easily represent the Hierophant in your mind--you seem to be anxiously awaiting permission to consider him your teacher. Have you known him long? How do you get along? I ask because the eight of cups in conjunction with the hermit suggests that you might need--or unconsciously want--to turn away from this situation and seek insight on your own. You are perhaps wondering whether joining the coven is right for you, and if no teacher at all is better than the wrong teacher.

ros	24 Jan 2005
I feel the Hierophant takes issues from one level to the next. The 8 of cups shows you walking away. The Hermit may be telling you to wait and follow your own light. I feel you should wait or have patience.

Thirteen	24 Jan 2005
I think Greyling and Ros have it right--there's a delemma here, if not in you than in the deck, between the Coven leader as teacher and following your own, solitary path. The deck certainly seems to be "screaming" at you on this guy. It's got a message for you about him and it doesn't feel you're listening. SO..... Pull him out of the deck, set the card down and do a spread around the Hierophant asking the deck: "What are you trying to tell me about this guy?" What should you know that you don't know--past, present and near future? Should you follow him? How will that go? If you don't get taught by him...how will that go? Is he right for you or, however good, very wrong? Get some answers.

paradoxx	24 Jan 2005
The heirphand in my Universal RW deck has a creace in it, so I know where he will land at all times, I usually take him out if I feel that he is getting in the way (more of a crease thing than a heirphant thing, but sometimes . . .)

Lorraine	24 Jan 2005
Excuse me for barging in...I have seen the heirophant as the binding of the spirit through authority of or laws of imortal god(s). It is similar to the authority of the tarot devil as we are more or less talking about the power to bind, which can be through our lower self (devil) or our higher self (heirophant). The ancient system (Greek/latin sources) recognized the need to have an intermediary between the soul and the body...the sould having no means of communicating with the body as the two "spoke" in different languages...this concept gives us a way to differentiate the heirophant. In the catholic religion the heirophant as the pope commands the power to bind the spirit and the earthly realms, it is represented by the keys to salvation in symbol. The substitution of the word heirophant for pope allows us to deal with this authority conceptually rather than being filtered through a religious dogma. In a sense the hermetic concepts establish the "divine" nature as being the source of all authority...as the theory goes humanity is the perfection of the expression of this authority in matter...as such we hold within our own composition authority. The Heirophant to me represents group belief systems through the external appearance of social or religous dogma. We seek out those groups or beliefs, however, the danger is to mistake this external search for the way to "enlightenment". It is a joining of hte individual levels of power toward enlightend ends which is the goal, not the creation of magical slaves. If the inner understanding matches the external we are working toward a unified goal...just take the time to understand that ritual also takes from the personal power...and gives...we hardly breath just out we have to breath in it is our nature....

tarotbear	24 Jan 2005
I am agreeing with greyling and ros on this one. The Hierophant here represents someone who is very definate in their actions and not prone to be flexible concerning matters they hold true or dear. Although they can still be someone you look up to and are friendly with, they have a viewpoint that will not change, and may be diametrically opposed to yours. You walk away from them in the Eight cups and either find the truth for yourself (The Hermit) or find the true teacher you need.

Fudugazi	24 Jan 2005
The Hierophant is close cousin to the Pope, but not his exact replica - one problem I have in reading him (as opposed to the Pope), is that commentaries about him are very ambiguous, and his image in many decks is negative - an example of such negative viewpoint was just given above. It's difficult to see a picture as benevolent when the figure on it seems to be about to have you thrown on the rack for heresy! (The Pope usually looks quite pleasant, or at least, not unpleasant). Yet he need not be this spirit-killer, this stuck-in-the mud authoritarian he is sometimes portrayed to be. In times when you need someone to say - here's the deal, you're stuck and this is a good way to go - the Hierophant can be a clarifier. As Pope he is the bridge between man and God (the Pope is the Pontif, from the latin Pontifex = bridge between men and the gods) ; as Hierophant he also has that mediator role with the spirit world. It can often indicate a social action to take, but one that has spiritual consequences - or vice-versa (as opposed to a purely spiritual role such as suggested by the Hermit; or a purely social one led by the Emperor). He is an authority, but not one that has immediate power over you; rather like the Dalai Lama, or indeed, the Pope. Authorities are only ever a problem when they are abusive: otherwise, we can use them to help us get things done when we need them (just as you expect you local authority to clear the rubbish and run the schools). In the case of the Hierophant, who is a spiritual and moral authority, we use them to mediate, to tell us things we might not be hearing, to pay attention to the social-spiritual links in our lives. In any case, he indicates that it's time to get moving, or that you will be moving from one state to another (sometimes he means a wedding, a confirmation, etc) in a way that will affect you spiritually. If he's turning up so often, then you are not paying attention to what he's saying. Look at him. What's his expression like? What does he evoke in you? The other two cards you mention, on the other hand, show some kind of solitude, a spiritual search that is not mediated. Do you use positions in spreads? Are these cards indicated in the past or the future, or now? It could be the time is not ripe for you to seek a spiritual mediator; that you need to keep seeking alone, until you are secure enough in the presence of a master to protect yourself from being over-influenced. Or it could be that it's time for you to give up your solitary way to turn to the Hierophant, who can show you the way further down your path. It depends how the cards are turning up. What does you intuition tell you about the Hierophant here: is he benevolent? Is he right at this time? You could try posting a reading in the Your Readings section and the let some of us have a go.

Diana	24 Jan 2005
I don't have a Hierophant in my decks. But I do have a Pape, who was the original model for the Hierophant. In almost all readings I do, for myself or for other people, if Le Pape turns up, it means that we need to get advice from someone wiser than us in the domain that is troubling us, or for which we are asking advice. If it's a health reading, it means see a doctor. If it's the spiritual domain, see someone who is a spiritual adviser. If the reading is for a child, it can mean that he/she needs tutoring in a subject at school, or that a meeting with his/her teacher is required. If it's for an animal, he probably needs to see a vet. Etc. etc. etc. Le Pape is always a benevolent kind of teacher/adviser. Someone who will show us the way.

willowberry	25 Jan 2005
Of course it's not too personal, Greyling! I'm an open kinda girl in the most modest of respects.... I have been a solitary witch for about 5 years now and I felt, after going to a lecture of Kate West's that I should seek a coven for the all-round witchy experience!! Sounds like Disneyland, huh?! My search was surprisingly difficult, but finally I found a coven leader who has initiated over 100 High Priestesses and in Britain at least is quite an authority on traditional witchcraft. I have been round to his house for discussions and tea and his wife, him and myself get on famously when I am there. However, he seems to make promises he can't keep, doesn't call when he says he will and is terrible at setting a date to begin teaching. Despite trying to remember that he is old (76) and busy I have found myself quite frustrated at it all and probably do wish I could go back to being solitary, but I've gone and started this now, haven't I??!!! The Hierophant himself seems to pop up in the Celtic Cross position of environment. The eight of cups was next turn of events, the Hermit was me, the Moon was the first card - the essence of the problem. Part of me feels I can't read this clearly because I've emotionally invested in it too much now, and have probably projected far too much onto my coven leader. Will definitely try your suggestion, Thirteen, will let you know how I get on!!

jota23	04 Feb 2005
The situation being the Heirophant, the external religious teacher, is obviously asking if you should have this man be your teacher. It is crossed with the Moon, the feminine dark powers. The Moon has always represented trying to connect with your spirituality for me. It seems that you are trying to find a teacher because you are trying to fill a spiritual void. Having been in a coven with an unreliable High Priestess, I have to admit that it was more trouble than it was worth and I eventually became a solitary witch. I have to admit that this situation reminds me of The Hermet: If you do not find it within yourself, you will never find it without. In the end, what you are seeking is within you (The Moon). If this teacher (The Heirophant) will help you find what you are seeking within yourself (The Moon), then he is a good choice, but if he causes more frustration than introspection, then I suggest reevaluating your options.

caridwen	04 Feb 2005
I view the Hierophant rather negatively because of what he means for me personally - not in how I read him for others as the interpretations are many and varied. I had exactly the same problem - he kept popping out all over the place, leaping from the deck, was in all my CC spreads under enviroment etc and I really looked into him as I couldn't quite work out what he was saying for a long time. For me he meant that I was in a very spiritually restricting enviroment. He referred not only to the traditional culture in which I lived at the time but also the relationship I was in. Both totally went against the grain of my nature and were slowly suffocating me like very large boa. He was warning me that this couldn't possibly work out but I refused to see it at the time so he had to keep jabbing me in the head as it were. I did not want to hear his message. However, he can also refer to organisations and groups. He is related to the Three of Cups/Pentacles. You are struggling with a choice here The Hermit/The Hierophant ie Solitary or an Organisation with its own hierarchies, traditions and customs. And yes, as others have pointed out - you are seeking a mentor which could be represented by either The Hermit or Hierophant. You've already summed up your problem: regret at moving away from being a solitary - eight cups. Frustration with the teacher and unwillingness to continue with the organisation - Hierophant. Wanting to continue being a solitary - Hermit. Confusion and unable to see situation clearly - Moon. My guess is you are no suited to the structure of a coven and would be better by yourself. However, that's just my take;)

jota23	04 Feb 2005
The suggestion that the Heirophant represents a restrictive religious environment is exactly how I view the card. Enrolling yourself into a specific organized and structured path gives you no room for personal interpretation. The Moon card cries out a need to discover the mysteries within the darkest recesses of your soul. A teacher can preach his or her way of doing things all day long, but if it doesn't result in serious introspection and personal interpretation, you'll never get anything out of it. If you need a guide on your personal path, keep in mind that the amount of leaders that the teacher has trained doesn't qualify them to teach you. Finding a teacher is like finding a tarot deck. One day, you'll find one that resonates with you and causes your mind to begin looking further inward than you ever have before.

NightWing	06 Feb 2005
It seems to me that one of the characteristics of the Hermit is...Patience. You won't get far without practicing it a great deal. No serious Mentor would consider taking on an "apprentice" who lacked it. Are you in fact being tested? At least consider the possibility.

jota23	06 Feb 2005
That is a FANTASTIC point!

Fudugazi	06 Feb 2005
NightWing wrote: It seems to me that one of the characteristics of the Hermit is...Patience. You won't get far without practicing it a great deal. No serious Mentor would consider taking on an "apprentice" who lacked it. Are you in fact being tested? At least consider the possibility. That's possible. In order to convert to Orthodox Judaism, a person must not only go through some years of learning Hebrew letters, Torah and the fundamentals of Judaism, and live a kosher life, but must come before a panel of rabbis. This panel can refuse the neophyte three times. If he/she comes back for a fourth, then he'll be taken into the fold... The famous passage in the gospels where Peter denies Jesus three times comes from that tradition. It's by no means confined to Judaism. Zen and taoist tales speak of far stricter masters than that! I read a beautiful (wonderful!) book by a French artist, Fabienne Verdier, who spent 10 years in China between 1983 and 1993. She went out there to learn traditional taoist calligraphy. She found a master, but he wouldn't speak to her for months (part of the reason for that ways also that he'd been perscuted during the Cultural Revolution and was still under scrutiny: he didn't want to put himself in danger for someone who wasn't truly dedicated). She just kept leaving her poor efforts at his door. Eventually he agreed to teach her and told her it would take 10 years. For the first 6 months, all she did was paint straight vertical lines. That's it. Afterwards, he made her cut endless ink stones, which hurt her hands. He gave her so much work she feel asleep over her meals. If she'd got fed up and thought he was making a fool of her, or lost patience, or got discouraged, she'd never had gone beyond. But eventually her hand, her mind, expanded and metamorphosed - and the teaching went further than she ever imagined. She calls it a spiritual path as much as an art teaching and that she would never have broken through the way she did if there had not been that difficult year or so at th beginning. She's now one of the foremost artists in France who has created a bridge between Chinese and Western art. Such testing is meant to pick out those who are serious in the way, and to teach them spiritual discipline. spirituality, after all, is not a feeling, but a practice. But you know that :)

Umbrae	06 Feb 2005
From my notebook: The Hierophant: Life is about balance. There is a divergence and distance between spirituality and materialism. This is the key to many of the difficulties in modern culture, and often underlies our everyday problems. The Hierophant urges us towards a balance, and to not yield to the illusions of ego, and pseudo-intellectualism. [i]Nowadays[/i[ the Hierophant is about knowledge attained through working and participating in groups and teams, as opposed to knowledge gained though conventional learning institutions, or the church. Indeed, we all learn more when interacting with others as opposed to solitary endeavors. This is a card of group action; especially when directed for a higher purpose. Moreover, mystery and wonder is to be shared, by works that improve the community – and thus, the world. It was the experience of mystery, sometimes mixed with fear that produced religion. You can travel into fantasy, or search the real world, seeking a place that resonates the mystery...but that place exists in your heart. Never lose your sense of wonder. If you do not believe in miracles, you will never experience one. Those who substitute faith in possessions with faith in spirit surround us. They become suspicious and intolerant of we/those who believe differently. Connection with the divine…the river; and respect of the river. Ritual. This is not a negative card.

Fudugazi	06 Feb 2005
Umbrae wrote: mystery and wonder is to be shared, by works that improve the community – and thus, the world. It was the experience of mystery, sometimes mixed with fear that produced religion. You can travel into fantasy, or search the real world, seeking a place that resonates the mystery...but that place exists in your heart. Never lose your sense of wonder. If you do not believe in miracles, you will never experience one. Those who substitute faith in possessions with faith in spirit surround us. They become suspicious and intolerant of we/those who believe differently. Connection with the divine…the river; and respect of the river. Ritual. I love what you say there, Umbrae - the mystery, the river. More than words. The Pope is a bridge - perhaps across a river - but also a passage: and the river itself is a passage. There are countries where they are the only passage, no roads run through the thick forest or the spare lands. It links many beings - live and dead - and its gentle flow elevates us even as we stay close to the people. Have you ever taken a long river journey? After a few days, it's impossible not to open up to other people on the boat, even if you and they don't have a verbal language in common. Close ties are made in river voyages - and all along, you meet beings by the river - villages, towns, ancient and new buildings, animals and trees. River spirits who take time to visit if your journey with them is long enough. There are rituals also, all along a river voyage. The ritual of washing (especially if there is no bathroom aboard ;)) which brings you close to the river itself and its inhabitants; the ritual of stopping at small river-ports and meeting the farmers come to sell fruit and hear and tell the news, the people waiting for letters, or just waiting to see a new face; the ritual of blessings as the boat sets off again; the ritual of stopping by riverside graveyards to pay homage. Umbrae wrote: the Hierophant is about knowledge attained through working and participating in groups and teams, as opposed to knowledge gained though conventional learning institutions, or the church. Indeed, we all learn more when interacting with others as opposed to solitary endeavors. This is a card of group action; especially when directed for a higher purpose. Fabienne Verdier had gone to study in a large Chinese university where she was the only Western student. But it is not within the university she found her master: he was forbidden by the regime to teach classes. She found him because she was called to him - and despite his repeated testing of her, she stayed: in her book she speaks of him as of a father and a bridge to the mystery. I know this isn't tarot - but I want to give you a link that talks about her and her initiation, and shows some of her current work, because without a Hierophant, she'd never have been able to create such things and be who she is: he birthed her. http://www.chris-kutschera.com/A/Fabienne%20Verdier.htm I also attach a painting of hers: The Rock of Rare Authenticity - the title of which is already a spiritual bridge...

NewWithCards	12 Feb 2005
i think it's telling you to look deeper. the hermit holds a light, showing the way, he is obviously looking for something, 8 of cups...notice the man in the background walking away...maybe looking for somethign the point is he's going SOMEWHERE...and the hierophant....is supposedly all knowing, that's my opinion, it could be your deck telling you "think about him, make a decision, remember him? make a decision....he's waiting for an answer, make a decision" the hierophant simply meaning the teacher.... someone comment, i havent done this in a while, just instinct

The Haunted by The Hierophant thread was originally posted on 24 Jan 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.