Is there such a thing as a "correct" meaning? (split from RWS to TdM thread)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

tmgrl2	10 Jan 2005
I have some trouble with the concepts of correctness versus incorrectness when we discuss "using" the cards to read. For me that would be stifling and would perhaps limit the range of possibilities no matter what deck or tradition I use to read. The last thing I want my readings to become is "correct." Then, I don't necessarily use the cards primarily for "divination." I use them as a way to tap into some type of guidance that the images may stir up within me as I reflect and as I read for someone. I'm not saying that that the element of divination doesn't present itself. It can and does. I still like both types of decks. I do like to have my sitter choose, since they are part of the process, even though I see that look when, e.g., my Morgan-Greer Ten of Swords comes up in a reading. In fact, the challenge is to put all of the cards in any spread into the perspective of the moment and the needs of the sitter. For me, the challenge is to get out of my intellect and into the images, to meditate, to reflect and then to spin my yarn. I am grateful to all of the mentors I have found here who have encouraged me to do so, or else I might have found myself on a different path with reading. When I reflect and meditate, it really doesn't matter which deck I am using. Some days it may be more of a challenge to read with my Tarot de Marseille decks and, on other days, more so with my RWS decks. It's that intuitive side that I wish to stretch again in my life. It went too far underground for too many years and it is a wonderful gift to me as it peeks out from within. In fact, of all of the readings that people here at AT have done for me, I can go back in memory to a picture or image that they painted with words. I still see "elf" saying, "Stop thief!" to my thyroid. ..... and firemaiden asking me about the paintbrush that I dropped in a reading using the Bruegal deck. I believe it was Jewel-ry who reminded me to keep my eye on the rose... .... and Diana who gave me the "prayer" about not being able to stop the storm and about needing to stand still in its center. I could go on and on about the images and words that have stayed with me all these months....Merc giving me the ankh and pulling the Page of Swords as my "character" in the Dream Circle. Mimers gave me the eagle as my guide. Diana, I still remember the Advice weeks. They were some of the most difficult things I had to carry out, but you were right. The advice did help me step back and look at something differently....think laterally, get out of my way, slow down. When these readings were done for me, it wasn't important to me where these symbols originated. They got my immediate attention. I was able to see, in that moment, what I needed to see for the reading to act as the wonderful guidance it was. Those gems within the reading, were the cores of the guidance, of the messages I needed to hear. There were so many more...I'm just rambling about the ones that came to mind as I reflected on this thread and on preferences of decks for reading. Umbrae, I await the day I can take out my toothpicks. It may never come, but one can dream, non? I thank jmd for the his amazing knowledge. Also, I am so grateful for the endless hours he puts in moderating on the Tarot de Marseille and for the thread studies. But his greatest gift to me, is the reminder of the spiritual, of the sacred in a reading being done. The process simply works. I don't know why. I probably won't ever, in my lifetime, gain the knowledge that is "out there" about numbers, or astrology, or art history, or history of iconology. I love studying. Reading is....well....it's reading.....it's a pure and sacred instant in time, with something going on that will never quite happen again in the same manner with the same person...like a snowflake, complex, organized, exquisite, unique and ... in and instant, gone... Have to catch it in the moment, or the message can be missed. terri

Fudugazi	10 Jan 2005
tmgrl2 wrote: I probably won't ever, in my lifetime, gain the knowledge that is "out there" about numbers, or astrology, or art history, or history of iconology. I love studying. Reading is....well....it's reading.....it's a pure and sacred instant in time, with something going on that will never quite happen again in the same manner with the same person...like a snowflake, complex, organized, exquisite, unique and ... in and instant, gone... Have to catch it in the moment, or the message can be missed. Lovely post, Terri. Reminds me of my signature ;) - the great William Blake would have understood... Studying is a joy, but it is a different joy from seizing the moment. It can build knowledge to feed a reading, yet the best readers are those who take from their knowledge what they need in the instant. They do that intuitively, without thinking: but make no mistake, this intuition is based on hard work - including the hard work of letting go, of not trying to control one's material. If the picture of a mosque comes to mind, use it. If of a butterfly, use it. If the number two suddenly strikes you as significant, use that too. There are building blocks that we can use - but in the end, we learn to trust ourselves enough not to try and be either correct or incorrect at all cost. That goes for any deck, including Marseille! Edited to add: I would say, rather than correctness we should strive for integrity in a reading. There are times when I just contemplate the cards: then I like to compare them, to read up on patterns, numbers and symbols. This feeds me too. It is a different experience - a bit like the difference between a magical live performance at the opera that will live on in your heart, and being able to listen to your Cecilia Bartoli CD at home over and over again, and read the notes and study her technique. I don't seek to know all there is. I only seek. That's already a pretty tall order! I like the idea that in Tarot, we can become like zen masters. Completely focussed, completely released, completely empty.

crystal cove	10 Jan 2005
firemaiden wrote: In matters of divination, what can "correct" possibly mean? For me, "correctness" is of no importance, it only matters only that these cards were drawn meaningfully. Meaninglessness is a modern invention. I couldn't agree more. I've always believed that the universe speaks to all of us in the language/medium that we will hear.

jmd	11 Jan 2005
Between these three important points, tmgrl2's mention that [indent]'I have some trouble with the concepts of correctness versus incorrectness when we discuss "using" the cards to read',[/indent] Helvetica's[indent]'rather than correctness we should strive for integrity in a reading',[/indent] and firemaiden's (that I have a teeny-weeny bit modified)[indent]'it only matters only that these cards [...] drawn [are] meaningful',[/indent]it seems that the main state of allowing oneself to be open to the reading at hand is given... I agree with these statements wholeheartedly! Yet there is also the important question that heads this thread (both explicitly and in ways that has at times been asked), that also, in effect, asks whether one's own sense for one deck will impact on the reading of the other, and how to, in some ways mitigate against this to enable the Marseille to speak of its own accord. In some ways, I suspect that the 'transition' will vary from person to person: how meticulous the details of another deck has been studied; for how long; whether one prefers to adopt suggested meanings or allow for the image of its own accord to guide the reading; etc. The question does also need to be asked as to whether the Marseille has a 'tradition' all its own. For that, I suspect the answer is rather twofold: on the one hand, it has specific iconography (with all that this implies) that characterises it as a Marseille and not as something else; on the other its meanings, during a reading, has various possibilities (various 'schools' - some may go so far as to call these traditions) as also illustrated by the ways in which it has been written about, whether by Etteilla, Marteau, Hadar or others. Personally, I consider studying the iconography of high importance, as is likewise the study of myriad related and apparently un-related areas. Chief amongst these would undoubtedly be philosophy and mathematics (including geometry). The reading at hand, however, needs to be permitted to transcend any limitations placed by its discussed possibilities when studied.

tmgrl2	11 Jan 2005
jmd wrote: The reading at hand, however, needs to be permitted to transcend any limitations placed by its discussed possibilities when studied . So, in the end, we read with the best of what we have internalized thus far, non? I have set aside my "studies" of my RWS decks in favor of the TdM, but know I will use both. I have a great deal of difficulty with the geometrics aspect of the studies...the iconology works for me, some system of number correlations (I use Umbrae's list...plus what I read in Klea, Sedillot, Hadar and Jodo), plus meanings of the suits in conjunction with the number....then, of course, look at the overall spread and go from there. There is no question that I feel more "comfortable" now when I do a "live" reading with the Tarot de Marseille. I actually like what happens when I do. I really meditate on the meanings of the suits, numbers and frequencies of occurence of suit cards or number cards, presence of Trumps and where all of the cards fall. Then, as with all readings I do, something entirely new or different pops up while I am reading and I go with it. I know that I, for one, was extremely uncomfortable with a TdM deck at first. I still feel that I will never reach the knowledge base that you and others here have...and that concerns me...since I am such a perfectionist at times when it comes to information and since the Tarot's elements are completely outside my own life background studies (except for the language and linguistics piece, which, I suppose, is not necessarily a small part). Fortunately, my study of the French language is coming home to roost as I find myself almost daily better able to read whole passages in French and understand what I am reading....That and a wonderful hand-held dictionary scanner, that has over 350,000 words in it....it enables me to scan whole phrases and then highlight each word which the dictionary then "looks" up for me. I'm not sure though, that I would be able to use the dictionaries effectively had I not studied French for all those years in high school and college. I know that once I read more with "live" sitters, the decks of choice will emerge. I would choose my Hadar right now, but will let the querent choose between that and one or two RWS...(my preferences, at present, are the Morgan-Greer, the Radiant, and the Gilded decks. I have others that I use when I feel like beeing more "playful" or free or want to "free associate" more with the images. terri Thank you, jmd....for your encouragement. (Can I escape without understanding the geometry better? I did well in math in high school and in physics and acoustics and speech science in college and post grad work...but I took only those math courses I needed to take for my profession). Edited to add: My knowledge of astrology is also sorely lacking!

The Is there such a thing as a "correct" meaning? (split from RWS to TdM thread) thread was originally posted on 10 Jan 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.