Putting it all together

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Pipistrelle	11 Jan 2005
Hi Everyone, I've been reading for a few months now, and although I've got quite a good grasp of most of the cards' meanings, my readings don't flow. I can say "that card in that position probably means xyz" but without being able to connect the dots, that is, blend all the meanings in a reading to obtain a cohesive whole, I feel like I'm only seeing a line drawing instead of the magnificent oil painting that I should be seeing. This is starting to frustrate me. I suspect that maybe the "flow" is something that comes with practice, but I still constantly feel as though I'm guessing my readings instead of interpreting them. Many of my readings, especially daily readings, make sense by evening because I can say "oh that's what that meant", but until then I have no idea, just many many possibilities of what it could mean. I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts on how they get the whole from the sum of the parts. I realise this may be a difficult question, especially if the process is as natural as reading a book ("well, I just look at the page and it makes sense") but if possible, could anyone describe what you think "happens" after the cards have been laid out and you're "reading" them. Do you approach a reading in a certain way - i.e. what sets the tone of the reading? How do you know what "tone of voice" a reading is in? I hope this makes sense. Kind thoughts, Pip

Moongold	11 Jan 2005
Hi Pip ~ Great question. It's different each time for me. It often depends on the spread too and I realise that I have developed some sub-conscious approaches with certain spreads. No matter, sometimes I am drawn immediately to a particular card or group of cards and I always take note of that. Then follows an almost subliminal storyline. However, quite often the question and the throw demand much more than that. I become more analytic, looking at elements, colours, courts, majors, particular positions. I then start to write and just see what flows. Often have to tidy it up quite a lot later. I think the flow, the ease, come with experience and energy. The two are inseparable. The right kind of energy stimulates the flow. At the moment. for example, I am struggling to read, because so much else is happening - emotionally and professionally. The right kind of energy is really important - that is simply my view.

April	11 Jan 2005
I'm not sure I know what you mean be the "tone" but I think I get the "flow" part of your question. This was a big problem with me for a long time. I would just read the cards one by one and my readings were very uninsightful. Here's an exercise that I like. I'm almost positive I got it from Joan Bunning's website. It's not always going to relate in a reading but it's good practice to find how cards might be related. Just take two cards and try to find something similar in them. A color, an object and sometimes people even look alike from card to card depending on what deck your using. Maybe there is a snake in both of them or they both have mountains, whatever. So what to snakes and mountains mean? Again, these associations aren't always going to apply, but I think forcing myself to find connections like this helped me find them more easily when doing a reading. It starts to become second nature. I'm also finding numbers more and more useful lateley. I mean, four aces in a reading has got to mean something, right? And of course finding the ratios of majors to minors or from suit to suit is always helpful. All little things that add to an interpretation. Another thing that helps me find the flow is in the spread itself. How are the spread positions related? The Celtic Cross, for instance, has two spaces for future events, the "future" or "coming influence" and the outcome. It also has has two cards to represent the querent, the first and seventh cards. So you already have a relationship between two cards without even trying. I think this is a good place to form a sentance, so they say. What can you say about the relationship of the cards in those two positions? Which reminds me, I also used to read all the cards in order which I now beleive is unimportant. Go wherever your eyes focus. You're right, it does take practice, but once it starts it gets easier and easier. I think I rambled to much. I hope I was a little helpful. "Groove is in the heart" - Dee-Lite :) Peace, April

Arnnaria	11 Jan 2005
Usually my flow is just fine...unless there are a lot of major arcanas present. The other night I did a reading that had five major arcana and I just started stuttering and was really nervous. On the Celtic Cross spread... Position III was Inverted Death Position V was The Wheel of Fortune Position VI was Inverted High Priestess Position VII was The Hermit Position IX was Inverted Magician Once everything was turned I couldn't flow anything together. I just started stuttering and apologized to my querent. I promised him another reading later on. I felt rather bad.

WhiteWolf	11 Jan 2005
Hi Pip, I agree with Moongold, a very good question indeed. I can share how I first began relating to the tarot and hopefully that will give you an idea for what works for you or knowing what to expect. My introduction to divination wasn't actually with tarot, it was with an oracle deck called Medicine Cards. With Medicine Cards, I simply drew a card after shuffling and read what the book had to say (and still do today). I became interested in what other types of decks might be out there and I found the Osho Zen Tarot because I found it's artwork captivating. Since I was only vaguely familiar with "spreads", I used the same method with this deck - I drew one card and read what the book had to say - only with this deck, the art was more inviting and I was able to tune into it empathically and understand the symbols. Eventually, as I felt comfortable, I started following the few various spreads the book offered (though still reading the individual card interpretations and working them into the spread). After a while, I thought it might be a good challenge to "ween" myself off of the book and trust my intuition, and although it took a little practice, it was very rewarding! I realize not all decks have very useful books and a lot of tarotists suggest "throwing the book away" and going with you gut. The truth is, you have to do what feels right for you. Don't be ashamed to seek a book for guidance, nor be afraid to trust your intuition and the "forces that be". My simple suggestion is this: keep drawing a card a day. It's how I started and it worked for me. I realize what works for you may be entirely different, but this is a pretty basic practice that I think most would agree works in becoming familiar with the deck. One important, and possibly overlooked, factor to doing successful readings is the level of your personal intentions, which is very similar to what Moongold was saying about energy. I have found that when I do readings in haste, the reading will reflect that type of energy and give me a "scattered" kind of reading. However, when I have a need or am at least very focused and sure of what I am seeking in the tarot; when I let go of my expectations; when I trust the Divine and my own receptivity - my readings are very successful, and at times shockingly vivid. Last night I was shuffling and 4 cards fell out of the deck - in the sequence they fell out they were obviously telling me a short story of how I will soon be going to a friend's wedding and our meeting will be very life-changing and significant in a positive way and our souls will touch in the deepest level of friendship (for those interested, I was using the World Spirit and got, in this order: 6 of Swords, 3 of Cups, 2 of Cups, Wheel of Fortune). I hope what I've said makes sense and is helpful in some way. Please don't get discouraged, be patient with yourself as you get to know a good friend in the tarot.

dadsnook2000	11 Jan 2005
Perhaps you just need to be exposed to several good examples of tarot readings by an experienced reader. This can be found at a seminar, or within a tarot group if there is one in your area, or from couple of books that provide tarot readings. James Ricklef has written two; Tarot Tells the Tale, and Tarot -- Get the Whole Story. The first is full of various three-card spreads, the second presents a wide variety of spreads. James has a nice flow to his readings and in the second book actually discusses each reading afterwards in terms of how a card presented multiple meanings, how/why he chose to use part of its symbolic meaning and not another part, etc. Dave.

Greyling	11 Jan 2005
I personally tend to take April's approach, after I examine each card in its position and consider traditional meanings. However, it took a querent to open my eyes to this idea. The very first reading I did for another person was for my sister, who's sweet and sharp at once--a little war kite. I was using the Victoria Regina, and drew the Princess of Coins for Situation and the King of Coins for Obstacles. After making a few observations, I asked her to tell me what struck her about any of the cards, what impressions they gave her. She immediately pointed at the Princess of Coins and the King of Coins, and said, "The Princess is facing him, like she's asking for help, but he has his back turned on her." Which was absolutely true. Both cards were in profile facing left--an irreconcilable situation. This taught me to study the spread as if it had no borders, as if all the characters and objects were interacting with each other as if within a painting. I found this very helpful in synthesizing my readings. The Seven of Swords sneaks away from the scene of the crime, his arms unbalanced with his loot--and over his shoulder he sees Justice with her scales. The Hanged Man is suspended directly over the dreamy, neurotic Moon, in whom there is a danger of becoming lost. When you pay attention to positions, don't just pay attention to the position of the cards in the spread. Pay attention to the position of the characters and their tools within the greater picture.

Milamber	11 Jan 2005
The way I work with the cards is something like crafting a web. In a way, it is sometimes like I use some cards to back up my opinions of other cards. I don't really have a conscious method of creating the flow, but I do tend to think of them the same way, like so: First, I pick out the card or cards for which the meanings of are clearest to me, or strongest. This could be a sole major arcana card, a position that is easy to discern (perhaps position 1 on the Celtic Cross). In short, whatever card or cards stand out and have a clear, strong meaning to me in the spread. I use my interpretation of that card and position as the basis for the reading. The centre of the web. Having done that, I pick out cards that reinforce it. Find a card you can use to add to the story. And you don't have to go in the order the cards are dealt; that seems to very rarely work. As an example (this is made up purely for explaining this, btw), consider a celtic cross dealt about a problem with a friend who owes you money. The first four cards dealt in the spread (to avoid complexity, I'll stop with those), in order are: Two of Cups (rx), King of Pentacles, Seven of Cups, Five of Pentacles. Let's say the cards I picked out as my basis were the Two of Cups (rx) in position 1, and the Five of Pentacles in position 4 -- the friendship was suffering because of recent monetary concerns. Now the task is to pick a card to reinforce that idea. To add that to the story, I could say that on some level I wanted my friend to pay me back -- I felt he owed me that money. Now I've tied in the Seven of Cups. To finish off this mini-spread, I could add that the King of Pentacles in the crossing position means that perhaps that desire isn't best now -- my friend needs somebody to rely on. Perhaps a simile is the best way to describe it. It's like writing a story. (A non-tarot story, that is.) You pick out a plot, and start with that. Then you find bits and pieces of the storyline, and put it all in order. Then you finish off by determining the moral of the story. The only difference in tarot is that there's no specific order, as cards can connect to many others; thus, a web, and me following the strands. Try thinking on this question: "How can I relate this card to the main idea behind the spread?" One last note. I've had one spread in which it didn't make sense to connect all the cards. To me, at least, it was clear that the spread was covering two different issues. The spread was a celtic cross, and if I recall, four of the cards covered one issue, while the remaining cards covered another. Keep an eye out for that, especially on threads with very generic (or no) questions.

Thirteen	11 Jan 2005
1) The first thing to do, if you're a beginner, is, IMHO, to NOT, I repeat not use reversals. This isn't always true, but I find that when a newbie is having trouble with flow, reversals usually make it worse. Sometimes all you need to do is have all the cards upright and things flow better. Once you've got the flow, then you can go back to using reversals. 2) Second: DON'T use the celtic cross. Again, this isn't always true, but it's often hard to see a "flow" in the CC. You've got a kinda cross on one side (with cards covering/crossing cards), then you have that "staff" rising up beside it...how do you connect those? Remember, the CC is an advanced spread. Use the horseshoe spread to start and then move up to the CC--don't start with the CC. The classic, 7-card horseshoe is simple, and because the cards arch one to the other, it flows better--it reads more naturally; and it's a good, all-purpose spread. Horseshoe: *****4**** **3*****5* 2*********6 1*********7 1= Past 2= Present 3= Hidden influences 4= obstacles to be overcome 5= attitudes of others 6= what you should do 7= outcome 3) April's exercise is the way to go. Remember that old Seseme Street song: One of these things is not like the other? This is what you want to do with cards to get the flow--find what's either alike or different. Think of the cards like a comic strip you read. You have to supply the captions, as it were. But they should flow like a comic strip. If there's something similar--pentacles 2 moving into pentacles 8 (pentacles), then the story is intensifying or (pentacles 7 to pentacles 3), quieting down. If they're different, (Swords 3 to Empress) then the story has changed--it's moved to a new character, setting or action. If that doesn't work, consider the position of the card. Past to present--again, like a comic strip. In a comic, you have "Past" with, say, a young couple driving a sports car. Present, they have a van filled with kids. YOU make the leap between the two, what happened inbetween. Right. So if past is "The Fool" and present is "The Emperor" you leap from carefree Fool to in-charge Emperor. You know what happened in-between, right? 4) If that doesn't help, you can look for other connections. For example, do one or two suits dominate? A lot of cups = a lot of emotions, so what might that say about the "story"? Do you have a lot of a certain number? 5's are usually difficulties, so a lot of fives would mean...? A lot of majors or court cards? What might that mean? 5) Finally, try to make connections not only in how the cards look, are numbered and such, but what they mean. For example, Justice is about balance, but so is Strength and the Chariot. The Hermit is about solitude, but so is the Hanged Man. Find those similarites, and you can find the flow.

Thirteen	11 Jan 2005
Arnnaria wrote: The other night I did a reading that had five major arcana and I just started stuttering and was really nervous. On the Celtic Cross spread... Position III was Inverted Death Position V was The Wheel of Fortune Position VI was Inverted High Priestess Position VII was The Hermit Position IX was Inverted Magician. I was thinking we could use this to talk about flow, but, alas, these positions don't follow one another, and even if they did, telling us the position tells us nothing. There are different CC's. In one, position #3 is the "foundation" (below), in another it's "above" and crowning the person. So we can't even see how they were laid out unless you tell us what the position means given the CC you're using. That said, a connection can be made via the fact that three are "people" majors HPS, Magician, Hermit, and two are "life changing" majors, Death and the Wheel. Death is a low time that moves into rebirth and renewal. Inverted would mean that this is stopped. So, the person is stuck at that low point. No renewal in sight. HPS and Magician are all about power--instinctive, internal power for the HPS, external, verbal power for the Magician. If reversed, then these are blocked, and cannot be accessed. What's upright is the Hermit--solitude and study, and the Wheel of Fortune, a general change in luck and position. Knowing the other positions and cards would help with the flow, but even without them, connections can be made, and these help with the flow, with seeing the overall picture.

Pipistrelle	12 Jan 2005
I didn't expect such amazing answers! I thought was I was asking about was too difficult to pin down but you've all given such helpful and practical answers! Thank you so much! Moongold - your point about having the right kind of energy made a lot of sense. And mentioning that you write it down reminded me that I've had some quite good readings in the past when I've written my thoughts down instead of trying to gather them all together in my head - sort of like a stream of consciousness writing rather than just making notes, so I'll have to go back to doing that and see if that helps... April - "reading the cards one by one" - that's pretty much what I'm doing now :( That exercise sounds like something interesting to do whether it helps or not, and is something I could do to "keep in touch" with Tarot when I don't have time to do a "proper" reading (quite often!) so I'll try it. Also, yes, looking at the types of cards drawn - majors, minors, suits - I try to do that sometimes (if I remember!) but I'm not always sure what it means! Arnnaria - that sounds like me on a normal day! It must be much more difficult when you've got a querent sitting there waiting as well! WhiteWolf - thank you for your comments...I have to admit I've neglected my "card a day" practice lately which may explain why I'm feeling so disconnected. Tomorrow I will start it again (with my new lovely Sakki-Sakki!) Sometimes I'd even get frustrated with one card though! With so much happening in one day, it was difficult to work out what the card could be referring to...and a lot of the time, I wasn't that much wiser by evening! Still, I think you're right, it's that regular ritual and over time, there's probably a slow "absorption" that happens with patterns and symbols etc. dadsnook2000 - shame on you! as if I need an excuse to buy more books...:) They sound like they'd be very helpful to me, as my exposure to Tarot comes solely from my own practice and what I read here on AT (and most of the readings people post just make white noise in my head!) I will look them up and probably buy one - do you think one or the other would be better for a newb like me? Greyling - I love your explanation! Seeing a spread as a painting and seeing how the cards relate to each other just based on the pictures...it makes a lot of sense! I will try that next time I do a reading and see what happens... Milamber - also a good suggestion. I do tend to start at the beginning and read the cards in order but I would like to try what you do...focusing on the card which stands out and using that as the backbone for the rest of the spread...I'm not sure I have the experience yet to pick up on which card has the most significance - it's easier if there's just one major and the rest are minors :) - but I'll try and bear it in mind. Thirteen - as usual your explanation makes perfect sense and is expressed so clearly! Fortunately, I gave up trying to do the CC a long time ago but I haven't really found a decent spread to replace it so thank you for posting the horseshoe - I've made a note of it and I'm going to use it. It looks very straightforward but with most of the elements of the CC in it. Funny you also mentioned reversals - I've only started using them since the New Year. I thought it might help make readings clearer, but maybe I'll back off for a while. Thank you everyone! You can see from my reply how helpful your answers have been and that you've given me so many suggestions to try out...I really appreciate it :) I understand that learning Tarot is a life-long process, but sometimes I wonder whether I'll get there at all. Kind thoughts, Pip

Fudugazi	12 Jan 2005
Pipistrelle wrote: I would be very interested to hear other people's thoughts on how they get the whole from the sum of the parts. I realise this may be a difficult question, especially if the process is as natural as reading a book ("well, I just look at the page and it makes sense") but if possible, could anyone describe what you think "happens" after the cards have been laid out and you're "reading" them. Do you approach a reading in a certain way - i.e. what sets the tone of the reading? How do you know what "tone of voice" a reading is in? Before I start talking, I study the cards, one at a time, then together. I look to see what I find of one card in another, if there are repeats, or themes (several courts, several coins, dominance of colours, symbols that are repeated, same number repeated, more majors or minors, anything else that looks like a pattern, a theme). That weaves the story. Then there are motifs that break the theme - that obviously has significance too. I find with practice I do these things faster, unconsciously, and intuitively - the more you practice finding that thread, the more your reading will flow. Don't force yourself to remember exact meanings, lists of meanings, book chapters, etc - look at the picture in front of you. What does it evoke with the other pictures around it? Open your eyes, shut dow the chatter in your mind, and access the symbols directly. Symbols are powerful: they speak directly. Once you can hear - the story will come. You can also practice with reading "as a story" - for yourself. Pull out some cards, telling yourself something like "I want to see a story about a man who has a strange adventure..." (completed by the Tarot). Then tell the story, or write it down. The stroy will give you the tone. When you do this with a querent, as you know, it will often be a dialogue, that too will affect tone.

seawomyn	12 Jan 2005
This has been a wonderful sequence on reading tarot, I've really enjoyed everyone's comments on how they put a reading together. A suggestion I would make is to perhaps get a little dreamy about your approach. Several have mentioned the "make it into a story" idea and I add the possibility of getting very relaxed in front of your layout of cards and kind of dreamy and let images emerge as you quietly (perhaps a bit trancelike), meditatively scan the cards, then as if there was someone in front of you start telling a story. Try not to be concerned about making sense, just let the dreamy story emerge, perhaps imagining a child in front of you receiving this story. I have often used this approach when the reading is not coming clear. Then I write down what came out in my meditative journeying, and then, and only then I go back to the many ways of analyzing. At that point the analytical stuff makes a lot more sense to me. Hope this helps. Wonderful question.

astroltina	12 Jan 2005
this has been a great thread to read as a beginner. thanks for the practical advice from everyone. i've had the exact same problem. i have spent much time as a newbie learning what the individual cards mean (from reading books and this online forum) that i feel i am suffering from information overload! When i look at the individual cards in a reading i think of all the possibilities that they could mean, and then have a difficult time linking the meanings of the cards together to form a cohesive reading, or one that flows. maybe i need to think less and rely more on my intuition and be guided by the pictures and symbolism.

Fudugazi	13 Jan 2005
astroltina wrote: maybe i need to think less and rely more on my intuition and be guided by the pictures and symbolism. Definitely! Because your intuition will go and fetch what it needs from all you have learnt and turn it into something alive. That too can be learnt :)

Greyling	13 Jan 2005
Helvetica's right. Intuition is the dog, and truth is close to the bone. The meaning will grab you at the marrow.

Pipistrelle	13 Jan 2005
astroltina wrote: i have spent much time as a newbie learning what the individual cards mean (from reading books and this online forum) that i feel i am suffering from information overload! When i look at the individual cards in a reading i think of all the possibilities that they could mean, and then have a difficult time linking the meanings of the cards together to form a cohesive reading, or one that flows. Astroltina - that's what I was trying to say, only you explained it much better than I did! Maybe it's a phase all of us newbies go through - like learning anything - for a while it's all a jumbled mess of information, but at some point it "clicks" and then it becomes much easier. Funnily enough, when I was very new at Tarot and didn't know what hardly any of the cards meant, I felt I got much better readings because I'd just look at the pictures. But since I've been trying to learn it "properly", like you, I just get overwhelmed by all the different possible meanings...but I'm going to try some of the things suggested here and just keep practicing (did my daily draw this morning for the first time in weeks) :) Helvetica - I like the idea of looking for similarities and differences in a spread and assigning significance to both - even if you have very little understanding of the cards' meanings, it should be easy to spot things in the pictures which are similar or different. I think this is key - that I need to bear in mind what I've learnt, but first and foremost return to just looking at the spread and the pictures on the cards and starting with that, filling in any blanks with my "book-learnin'" as I go along. The things most of you have suggested refer to studying the images and trusting intuition. seawomyn - "get a little dreamy" - I love it! Sometimes I think I try to hard and try to analyse too much. Dreaminess sounds like a much more desirable state! Kind thoughts, Pip

astroltina	13 Jan 2005
Pipistrelle- you sound much like me! I too have been trying to learn things "properly". Reading as much as i can, journalling, meditating, getting into these forums etc. But sometimes you can just get too analytical and end-up confusing yourself. When that happens its time for a new approach. Im going to try some of the suggestions here and see how i go. I like the idea of sticking to simpler/smaller spreads for a while (CC is so confusing) and letting my intuition guide me more by looking at the pictures and making visual connections (similarities and differences), rather than always flicking through my notes to see if i have the "correct" meaning or not. im hoping over time i will gain more confidence in trusting my intuition with regard to my readings.

Fudugazi	13 Jan 2005
Greyling wrote: Helvetica's right. Intuition is the dog, and truth is close to the bone. The meaning will grab you at the marrow. :) I'd add a caveat: knowledge and learning is the basis for intuition, not the other way round.

all78degrees	13 Jan 2005
This is an interesting thread, I can't remember how I first did a reading. But the way I read now is that I read differently depending on the person and the situation. In face to face readings I have done tight lipped readings where I do all the talking, these are always harder as you have to make assumptions based on the cards that come up. One way of practicing and making it flow might be to a story with the reading. Eg The person in card is doing this or might be feeling that and then relating that to another card, eg if they are feeling this then that might mean that this has happended. I prefer the Mary Greer approach where you get the client to do all the work. What do you see in the card? This card tradionally means X what do you think this means. This style isn't a cop out. It means that the person is getting the best out of the reading because they are having to relate the reading to themselvles. But I use both. Internet readings are even harder to flow because you have to have structure in order for the person reading it to make sense of it. After I've explored the cards in any reading. I make sure I do a summery and try and gather up as many threads as i can. This is really where the flow comes in, and might even be the main part of the reading depending on how deep you go or how many connections there are. Just some thoughts. gav.

Greyling	13 Jan 2005
Helvetica wrote: :) I'd add a caveat: knowledge and learning is the basis for intuition, not the other way round. Intuition and knowledge form a lemniscate--one could safely say that all human knowledge was acquired at the urging of intuition. Hunches lead to investigations, investigations lead to the discoveries of corroborating data, corroborating data is used to "prove" the initial hunches. However, that is a discussion for another time and place. I understand what you are saying: that when you are dealing with a created system of numbers, words, and symbols, such as Tarot, it is helpful to avail yourself of all the relevant resources at your disposal. This is true of all created systems: grammar, soccer, table-setting. Pipistrelle and astroltina sound as if they are exploring the limitless possibilities of intuitive reading with foundations of book knowledge under their feet. They both mentioned being overwhelmed by the vastness of the library at their fingertips. Sometimes when that happens, it is more helpful to take a fresh approach--to treat Tarot not as a man-made system like table-setting, but as a naturally occurring system like the water cycle, and to learn it by discovering it. That's what I was trying to say.

dadsnook2000	13 Jan 2005
If you were to acquire just one book then I would suggest Tarot -- Get the Whole Story. It has a variety of spreads, from two cards up to many, and the author not only reads the spread but then goes into the difficulties with some of the cards and explains why and how he put the story together. Dave

contradiction	13 Jan 2005
sorry thirteen, but i must totally disagree with what you said, i believe that someone who intends on using reversals, should start with them. second i believe the celtic cross, is one of the best spreads for learning how to make things flow. the method i used is this; the first card is your general situation, the second card crosses you, or causes an obstacle to the question, the reading is about. this part is fairly simple, you have the problem, and the obstacle to finding a solution. (here is where variations come in. this is my layout, but i think everyone will get the idea how to adjust it to their layout.) the third card is personal influences, how do your ideas, desires, needs, etc... affect the first two cards? does it help you overcome the problem, or make it worse? the next card is outside influences, how do the people around you, and the environment you are in affect the problem? how do they affect your personal influences? next 2 cards are "the things you have no control over", and "the things you do have control over", this would be the people, and things around you, ie... friends, family, job, desires, wants and wishes, reactions to events. how do these things affect the situation you are asking about. do they help or hinder the solution. then you have the past and present positions, this refers to the situation, what has happened, what is happening now. this could be events, or feelings, that are directly related to the situation. then the immediate future card, what will transpire with the situation in the next few days, or weeks. last is the long term future card, where will the situation be after a few months. both of these cards, are based on the situation continuing just as it is. they can both be alterd by your decisions, and actions. by looking at each card individually and getting a general feel of what the card means, and how it relates to the question. then starting over using these meanings, and forming a story starting at the first card, and adding on as you get to the next card you will find that your thought begin to flow into something that makes sense. there will be times as you go through the second pass, that you will slightly alter a card meaning so that it makes sense with the cards before it. seawomyn, are anyone else, if you have any questions, on my response feel free to pm me, if you wish and i will eloberate farther. contradiction

Fudugazi	13 Jan 2005
Greyling wrote: Intuition and knowledge form a lemniscate--one could safely say that all human knowledge was acquired at the urging of intuition. Hunches lead to investigations, investigations lead to the discoveries of corroborating data, corroborating data is used to "prove" the initial hunches.. Absolutely! I like the lemniscate image too. Intuition and knowledge reinforce each other.

Pipistrelle	13 Jan 2005
dadsnook2000 wrote: If you were to acquire just one book then I would suggest Tarot -- Get the Whole Story. It has a variety of spreads, from two cards up to many, and the author not only reads the spread but then goes into the difficulties with some of the cards and explains why and how he put the story together. Dave Thanks Dave. Tarot - Get the Whole Story it is then! Now where did I put my credit card... :) Pip

Sechat	14 Jan 2005
This is all about the Art of Interpretation. One of the outstanding works in this area, IMO, is found in Mary Greer's Tarot Mirrors, Chap 3 Also James Ricklef's Tarot Tells the Tale also gives excellent insight on creating a reading that integrates and transcends the meanings of the individual cards. I also like to look at Janina Renee's Everyday Tarot for its emphasis on card meanings as advice. peace, sechat

Thirteen	14 Jan 2005
contradiction wrote: sorry thirteen, but i must totally disagree with what you said, i believe that someone who intends on using reversals, should start with them. second i believe the celtic cross, is one of the best spreads for learning how to make things flow. And i will respectfully, and totally disagree with you :) Look, as I said in the post, this is not ALWAYS the case--but I've been on this forum a while, and I've taught many tarot classes. The two thing I hear over and over and over again are this: 1) "Reversals confuse me!"--I can't tell you how many posts, how many newbies just learning the cards come up to me on the verge of frustrated tears because of reversals. I've met people who have tried to learn the tarot five times over...and thanks to reversals they gave up each and every time. When I tell them, "No reversals till you feel confident with the upright," they relax, they practically fall on their knees and sing "hallelujah!" And then, a year latter, they're into reversals and doing just fine. 2) "I can't get the CC! I hate it!" Some thing as above. Students say they learned the cards, but could never understand the CC. They gave up on the tarot. Tried again, gave up again. When I tell them, "Try a different spread"--their jaws drop with amazement. There are other spreads? Thing is, the Celtic Cross is not the be-all and end-all. It's ONE SPREAD. Just one out of throusands out there, many equally good. If you like it, fine. If it works for you, fine. If it flows for you WONDERFUL. But what works for you doesn't work for everyone. In the end, my disagreement with you is simply this: People need to do what works. And what worked for you might not work for others. To you how the CC flows is "obvious"--to others it's not, it's heartbreakingly obtuse and they'll batter their heads against it and feel really stupid when people like you say, "Of course it flows! Why can't you see that?" No. It doesn't flow for them and it may not even if you lay it out and explain it. Like a blind spot, they can't see it...not yet. But they can see other spreads, and eventually get to the CC. And no, the reversals are not making it any easier. These are people who are STUCK,who are are NOT getting the flow while using reversals and the CC. My advice works for them. It gets them unstuck, shows them the flow of the cards, releases them so they can move on--rather than give up in disgust and frustration. Clearly, this advice would not have worked for you--but then, you wouldn't have needed it, would you?

contradiction	14 Jan 2005
thirteen, i must agree each person needs to do what works for them. and what works for one will not work for everyone. the only thing i disagreed with was it sounded as if you were saying that no one should start with reversals, or the cc. they are both one of those things everyone should try, and if it is difficult for them, they need to drop it. by no means do i think either of these are mandetory in the beginning. but i do believe that someone who is having difficulties with the cc, will follow the outline i posted, it will make more sense to them. and if they still have trouble by all means forget it. as for as reversals go, i believe that if a person new to tarot wants to use them, then they should try using them from the beginning, if it confuses them, then they need to wait. but a lot of people that i know myself included would be more confused if they learned it one way, then tried to change. i do hope i did not offend you in any way. that was not my intent. and, i do hope that the way my post was worded did not come across as saying you were wrong. i do not disagree with everything you said, in fact i do agree with alot of it. but i did want to post the opposing view, because for some it will be easier to do it the way i did, and i did not want them to think that they could not do it that way. i firmely believe that everyone should try it every way possiable, then pick the way that is easiest for them. i would never try to tell someone they were doing it wrong because they did not do it the way i think is correct. i do not think any certain way is correct. but i believe a new person should be told all the options. and i have had someone ask me to teach them how to read, and i did offer several suggestions to them. then i told them to decide what was easiest for them, and that is how i worked with them. they did not want to use reversals, so i taught myself how to read without them, so i could help them. i hope this clears up any misunderstandings there might have been.

tarobones	14 Jan 2005
Might I suggest an alternative to the Celtic Cross? James Rickleff has written a wonderful book called "Tarot tells the Tale" a 269 page book exploring the basic 3 card spread. It has a lot of potential, and is often overlooked for more complex spreads. Rickleff is masterful in his creative use of this basic spread. I use it now almost exclusively, and find it enjoyable and very accurate. BB, Michael

Milamber	15 Jan 2005
I might as well put in the thought that, being very early in my tarot learning stages, I've begun to use reversals, and have been relatively successful with them. I admit that I'm probably an unusual case though. I first decided to use reversals in spreads shortly after deciding that a card in one of my spreads had a reversed meaning. Some may remember the thread, as it wasn't long ago. ;) They've worked very well for me since.

Sinner	15 Jan 2005
Very intriguing thread, there is a vast amount of info here I don't think I would have found anywhere else. One further point to consider when attempting to make readings "flow" is whether the cards support or oppose any other cards around them. This is generally only for the minor cards: each suit has a fundamental element attributed to it and so, with their interaction, certain relations can be made. Traditionally, Fire opposes Water and Air opposes Earth so a wand next to cup or a sword next to a pentacle would cause opposing meaning. perhaps decreasing the significance of the cards. On the other hand if a card is next to another of the same element (suit) then its meaning is emphasised. Hope this helps. on the confliction between contradiction and thirteen, I think I'll have to agree with contradiction for the most part. When I read thirteen's post it felt to me as if all of my readings up till this point were invalid since I use both reversals and the celtic cross early. I think thirteen's post just appeared abit presumptuously objective and that had me worried so thanks to contradiction for clarifying that there is more than just one way to begin readings.

Fudugazi	15 Jan 2005
I also started to read reversed and with the celtic cross from the beginning. I found that suited me fine. The only thing I couldn't do (and still can't do) was read reversed for myself. I now (for the past year or so) am no longer reading reversed, unless in a reading the card will come out reversed and I feel that has a meaning. I think that method is expanding my intuitive faculties, but I don't think I could have done it at the beginning. I'd follow Thirteen's advice if you are having trouble with reversals and the celtic cross at the beginning. I didn't, so I didn't worry about it. I also read shorter spreads and like tarobones, found the various three-card spreads to be real teachers. Nowadays I rarely use fixed-meaning spreads, preferring to devise spreads on the spot, or lay out cards to follow the type of question, the way it is said; or build a story structure. I might also use a sentence, which has its own flow. I am experimenting. I enjoy the improvisation, though I might come back to more fixed spreads, and if so, it will probably be with a different perspective. I find that using different methods, spreads, non-spreads, a sentence (so, for example, pulling a card for each word, or for each part of the sentence) has helped the flow.

The Putting it all together thread was originally posted on 11 Jan 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.