confusing hierophant...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

anubis	17 Feb 2005
can someone tell me how do you interpret the card hierophant? i had this problem when i was giving others reading about their love life and hierophant appeared in their "near future" position of the celtic cross spread

MercyMe	17 Feb 2005
The Heirophant represents many forces in our society and within ourselves. It usually represents more traditional means of receiving life instruction and/or spiritual guidance. I was doing a reading for someone the other night and my intution led me to tell her that that card meant that she would be looking to a "tried and true" avenue for guidance. I said that this could mean a religious figure such as clergy or someone in your life who has traditionally acted in that role, such as a parent, grandparent, or trusted aunt or uncle. The querant instantly said, "My dad." I smiled and asked, "Is he the one you usually go to for spiritual wisdom and guidance?" She said, "Yes, he's always been there for me when I have a dilemma." Those people are also traditional sources for guidance and instruction. If the card came up in the "near future" position of a CC spread, I would probably say that the seeker would be looking for guidance from a traditional source, a trusted, tried-and-true source where he/she has found such guidance before. ~Mercy

Indigo Rose	17 Feb 2005
MercyMe wrote: ..... If the card came up in the "near future" position of a CC spread, I would probably say that the seeker would be looking for guidance from a traditional source, a trusted, tried-and-true source where he/she has found such guidance before. ~Mercy I agree and add that this may represent the querents desire for a socially traditional relationship; marriage.

TemperanceAngel	17 Feb 2005
I have seen the Hierophant represent someone doing a University degree or who is a teacher. Also, re: health issues, a doctor that isn't making much sense, you know talking in riddles and generally not helping. They are more divination as opposed to working with the card on your own, but I agree he's a tricky one. On saying that what I have learnt from above is that at times, the Hierophant can be connected with structure: teaching, degrees, medicine.... For 'alternative therapies' I see Temperance or the Hanged Man, which perhaps are not so structered. When I say not so structered I mean according to 'Society', they are a little more off beat, does that make sense? Oh, I have also seen him as the unhelpful landlord, you know says one thing, means another....the 'I'll get the sink fixed' or 'rent will be this much', but it never is what they say. I use the RWS to read with :)

MercyMe	17 Feb 2005
Indigo Rose wrote: I agree and add that this may represent the querents desire for a socially traditional relationship; marriage. Oh yes, I agree, but I probably wouldn't suggest that in a reading unless there were other cards around to support it, like maybe the 4 of Wands, 10 of Cups, or even the 10 of Pentacles, 2 of Cups, etc. That is, unless intuitively I was just urged to blurt it out! Has happened. Heh. ~Mercy

anubis	18 Feb 2005
ooo... i think i got the rough idea. thanks people :)

wandking	18 Feb 2005
Can anyone offer views on a version of the RWS Hierophant I intend to submit in a book soon? 5 - THE HIEROPHANT This conventional card of beliefs, named The Pope in earlier decks, sometimes alludes to religious or spiritual meanings. Waite/ Smith type decks depict The Hierophant as a holy man but it usually indicates anyone with restricted knowledge. Reminiscent of early clergy, this card blesses a spread with meanings. It may sound like a lofty title but everyone is an hierophant in some way. We all hold secrets and anyone can teach others the inner workings of a group. Few cards in the Major Arcana show specific people or groups but this card is an exception: Still, it generally represents institutions not individuals. Groups tend to embrace specific beliefs and thus form the cornerstone of society. Early humans likely joined tribes for protection. In nature, a desire for safety solidifies individuals seeking security into herds but independence clashes with the herd concept. Group success depends on unity and teamwork. When team needs outweigh personal goals, individualism serves as a sacrificial lamb but a unified front offers success as a prize. Conventional conformity becomes a goal when The Hierophant appears in a spread, as tradition comes into focus. Orthodox methods may stifle creativity but conformity offers structure in which to create. Traditions and ceremonies of the Church epitomize the values taught by this card. Although all Tarot cards offer lessons, The Heirophant represents a teacher in a literal sense. The word Hierophant, derived from Latin, breaks into the basic components of heiro, meaning sacred and fant, which translates into secret. Representing anyone who retains the grave responsibility of protecting traditions and keeping secrets within a group, The Hierophant introduces an approach to teaching that centers on conformity and spurns individual expression. Maintenance and propagation of conventional beliefs allows little room for dissention. Even so, The Hierophant rarely serves as the primary disciplinarian because groups provide discipline by shunning those who go against their values. Clearly, the card shows large organizations, like the Church, but The Hierophant implies smaller units just as often. In Tarot, nothing indicates family like The Hierophant. This card offers numerous meanings associated with families, which stands to reason in any culture where leaders rarely resist coupling the word family with terms like value and tradition. Traditional values run high with this card because it shares energy with family-oriented Taurus. In astrology, the staunch sign of the bull places importance on down to Earth conventional ideals. If The Hierophant card appears, it often suggests that a teacher or mentor will instruct you in some field of endeavor or offer membership into a group. At the root, “hierophant” translates into secrecy, which implies the occult but your teacher will likely possess no spiritual or mystical background. An employer training a new employee in a business setting provides a more common example of a situation shown by the card. If current circumstances require a new skill, remain open to a teacher entering your life when The Hierophant appears. As you prepare for the teacher, remember Mark Twain said, “Never let a formal education get in the way of learning.” This card might also indicate that you will become a mentor. This card sometimes refers to the sharing of a secret when it appears in a spread, which suggests a faith long shrouded in secrecy. The colors worn by the figure on this card honor the Santeria deity Osain, known for sharing the secrets of alchemy with followers in Caribbean cultures. The artist who chose the colors grew up in Jamaica, listening to Caribbean folklore. Followers of Osain worship on Sunday, which further emphasizes the link to the traditional meanings of this card. The Hierophant emphasizes respect for the establishment and appearance of the card in a spread may refer to setting aside a radical plan to adopt a more traditional approach. Admittedly, postponing an exciting idea appears restrictive but traditions impart inarguable lessons in essence. At the core, tradition remains time tested; however, if any idea proves wrong there is no wisdom in resisting change. The Hierophant signifies an individual with respect for convention but blindly following a belief to destruction or leading the group into ruin violates the lessons offered by this card.

tinkerbell	18 Feb 2005
this card turned up recently in a reading for a friend of a friend. i admit, it tends to stump me at times but in this instance i felt sure it represented a person who's a stickler for rules and regulations. she laughed..."that's my partner ..... he's been on his own for a long time prior to us hooking up," she explained, "we've been having a few disagreements lately because he's very stuck in his ways and can't see why i won't do as he does..." so this interpretation fitted perfectly- maybe it would indicate a similar type of person moving into the future of your querents' reading. luv tink xx

MercyMe	18 Feb 2005
tinkerbell wrote: this card turned up recently in a reading for a friend of a friend. i admit, it tends to stump me at times but in this instance i felt sure it represented a person who's a stickler for rules and regulations. Heh, yep. That's the Heirophant! LOL :D He is quite the rule-oriented one. But sometimes so is the Emperor. I kind of look at both cards in a similar light, but the Emperor seems to deal more with external boundaries, guidance and rules and the Heirophant more with internal -- spiritual, knowledge, learning, thinking and decisions being prompted more from that base. ~Mercy

TemperanceAngel	18 Feb 2005
Hi anubis, silly me didn't read your post properly (it was really early) and I now realise you were asking about relationships, doh!

Moongold	18 Feb 2005
wandking wrote: Can anyone offer views on a version of the RWS Hierophant I intend to submit in a book soon? <<< The Hierophant as a holy man but it usually indicates anyone with restricted knowledge. >>>> <<<< The Hierophant card appears, it often suggests that a teacher or mentor will instruct you in some field of endeavor or offer membership into a group. >>>>>. Greetings Wandking ~ I always read your posts with interest because they reflect a lot of information and work in putting it all together. I would like to offer a comment though. Since studying the Marseille I have become much more aware of the importance of iconography. You have written a great deal here without reference to very much of it. :) I find it hard to remember broad statements about the cards without having them anchored in something in the image. That is just a point which you might like to consider. I also find that unless the observations are based in iconography they lose some credibility for me. For example, the two statements above are somewhat contradictory. I am not sure what you mean by "restricted knowledge" and perhaps it would be good to explain. I know some priests and religious and some of them are the broadest thinking people I know. Right here you have made a couple of generalizations without references and they do, to me, seem contradictory to what I know in real life. I thought a lot before making these comments because you've obviously put a huge amount of work into this. It's very dense information and would be more effective broken up with factual and symbolic references. I also am listening at the moment to those people who have immediate "flashes" and wish to acknowledge that they may have less need for iconography. I validate my impressions from the iconography. This process becomes unconscious after a while but it is still important to me. I am spending more time getting to know various images and decks in depth, which includes an understanding of the symbolism, so that these impressions will become sub-conscious and immediate. Thank you for the opportunity to comment. Perhaps I am being a Hierophant here myself :).

wandking	18 Feb 2005
Perhaps, you're a bit of an Hierophant but I appreciate your input. This section of the book is lighter than the history section, which offers the type sources you mention. Most books I've read on Tarot don't go into those details in card meaning sections. This copy can be read aloud. Now that you mention it, moongold, the word "resrticted" needs to go, it's too passive. thanks

Moongold	18 Feb 2005
It is nice sometimes to be thought of as a Hierophant. :) In 78 DW Rachel Pollack does refer often to symbolism and iconography and she describes the process of her intepretations rather than simply giving meanings. So does Kliegman in Tarot and the Tree of Life . Iren Gad certainly does this in her Tarot and Individuation thus certainly enriching the tarot learning process. I see Tarot as being nothing more than the representation of symbols and iconography in art form so to have some understanding of those is critical to the process. That is merely what I think. One of the problems with modern numerology is that authors often make global statements with little basis in anything, thus losing all credibility. I'd hate to see that happen to Tarot but you can see it in some books. Personal opinions become accepted truths simply because they are repeated over and over. I have only seen a few excerpts of what you've written, Wandking, and not the rest of your book. These are just comments on a few passages, not the whole product. You may well have a glossary or other such tools in the book as well. I didn't know you were writing a book until this thread. Edited to add that I just reread your post to see the comment about the history section in your book. That make sense. It is hard to comment on a book when one has not seen it in its entirety. Many blessings

wandking	18 Feb 2005
you're right Pollack did a stand up job of equating RWS symbols, so it's been done. I highly recommend the book. Mine is different after reading that page once a novice will have a strong overview of the card meanings, while a more advanced student might pick up a nice quote to use during readings on most of my cards. I also notice as I consider you're earlier post that i focus to a much greater degree on specific symbolism in the minors... hmmm,

Moongold	19 Feb 2005
Hi Wandking ~ I re-read your comments on the Hierophant and also went back to read other posts you've offered on various major arcana.. Certainly makes a difference to read having spoken with you. I'm very curious about your book now, and also as to whether you're creating a deck as well. All the best ~

The confusing hierophant... thread was originally posted on 17 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.