court cards and astrology

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Free Flight	21 Feb 2005
I know I am a busy little bee today. my question: In the mythic tarot each court card is assigned a particular sun sign eg- king swords - libra, queen pentacles - taurus, knight wands is a sago. But I have been reading in other bits of literature that each court card belongs only to a grouping of a sign ie - king swords is an air sign so could be any gemini, libra or aquarius - queen pentacles is a earth sign so could be any taurus, cap or virgo etc. Whats the general consensus on these two differing points of view? Thanks Free Flight

Fulgour	21 Feb 2005
Juliet Sharman-Burke, amongst others, assigns the cards: Queens: fixed signs Kings: cardinal signs Knights: mutable signs Thus her Queens are: Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius Etc.

Fulgour	21 Feb 2005
I think that some authors avoid being specific, because then they can "lump in" the Pages. Pages have no zodiac signs. If all Sword courts are all Air signs, so are the Pages, etc. But there are only 12 zodiac sings, and 16 court cards. Why? I think it is part of the beauty of Tarot: there is no exact rule. Everything is combined, and each part is needed to complete the whole. Majors and Minors, Pips and Courts, all together. Solving the riddle of the Pages is a worthy pursuit, one many have tried, in amazingly creative ways. What do you think? Edited to add: Don't overlook the Aces. They are the essence of each element.

Thirteen	21 Feb 2005
Free Flight wrote: Whats the general consensus on these two differing points of view? The general consensus in *decks* is to assign a Zodiac sign to each of the courts, sans pages. That is, if you were creating a deck, other deck creators would probably tell you "assign a zodiac sign to each court card." :D I say that only because the preponderance of books that come with decks seem to do so--not because I know a lot of deck creators. What sign the assign to which court differs deck to deck. So in some decks the King of Wands will be Aries, in others he will be Leo. The general consensus among *readers* is that unless the deck really specifies--i.e., gives you undeniable clues like having the King of Wands wearing a Lion skin, you should go with your instincts.

Free Flight	22 Feb 2005
Solving the riddle of the Pages is a worthy pursuit, one many have tried, in amazingly creative ways. What do you think? Fulgour In answer to your question: OK if the court cards are astrology signs then I believe (and I am a baby in this world so don't know for sure) that the pages (when not representing young kids ) represent a new energy in your life. Kind of like an Ace but not as pure and filled with potential. More like the stirrings of a growth, the beginning of awareness. But then again I could be way off track Kind Regards Free Flight

Fulgour	22 Feb 2005
The Courts of the Zodiac Wands Fire Spiritual Cups Water Emotional Swords Air Mental Pentacles Earth Physical Kings are Fixed (rigid) Signs Wands Leo-Sun-5th House Cups Scorpio-Mars-8th House Swords Aquarius-Saturn-11th House Pentacles Taurus-Venus-2nd House Queens are Cardinal (initiating) Signs Wands Aries-Mars-1st House Cups Cancer-Moon-4th House Swords Libra-Venus-7th House Pentacles Capricorn-Saturn-10th House Knights are Mutable (flexible) Signs Wands Sagittarius-Jupiter-9th House Cups Pisces-Jupiter-12th House Swords Gemini-Mercury-3rd House Pentacles Virgo-Mercury-6th House Pages may be seen as Moon Phases Wands Waxing Moon, Vernal Equinox Cups Full Moon, Summer Solstice Swords Waning Moon, Autumn Equinox Pentacles New Moon, Winter Solstice * Autumn's Waning Moon, The Page of Swords, loosening, giving, ebbing. Winter's New Moon, The Page of Pentacles, original, fresh and unbounded. Spring's Waxing Moon, The Page of Wands, awakening, gathering, becoming. Summer's Full Moon, The Page of Cups, generous, strong, and fulfilled.

rainwolf	22 Feb 2005
I used to believe that knights were fire, but after much inner debate, i came up with a personal concensus about those attributions. I dont limit myself to these signs when they appear in the spread, but i say the person may behave like them. Here were my conclusions: Kings:mutable because of experience, experience=intelligence=air Queens:fixed because of nurturing qualities=emotional=water Knights:cardinal because they start stuff=energy=fire Page:nothing because they lack experience=connectedness=earth The zodiac fits the rest in: Aries, sag, leo=fire Taurus, virgo, cap=earth Gemini, lib, aquar=air Cancer, scorpio, pis=water When you put these together, they make the attributes you look for: Air/fire=king of wands=sagittarius Fire/water=knight of cups=cancer Water/air=queen of swords=capricorn Earth/ fire=page of wands=all of fire signs~not yet differentiated

The court cards and astrology thread was originally posted on 21 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.