Dali Tarot Symbolism Trouble
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Azimel |
27 Feb 2005 |
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Hello, Hello! I have a bit of a question to those of you who own a Tarot Dali deck (in any of it's variants): for my friend's birthday, I got her a Dali deck (Dali being an artist who she loves). Going through the deck for the first time, I had the opportunity to be with her and we noticed a pattern of seemingly random flowing red streaks in the artwork of some of the cards. Though I don't have the deck in front of me, two that I particularly remember (and she pointed out as particularly random) were that of The Moon and The Sun.
Mind you, if I had the deck with me, I could probably pull a dozen other cards where this seems to be an occurrence. Anyone know the symbolic representation of this? Or was it just Dali being... Dali ^^;?
Besides our favorite theory of red streaks = Dali being Dali, we also took a couple shots in the dark about it possibly symbolizing "flow" or change. Maybe there is even a menstrual theme (which would work for the Moon, I suppose, with it being a feminine type of card, but less so for the Sun, with masculine :0) ) .
I got her the Jubilee Edition, which means it came with a book of interpretations... in Spanish. Which we haven't quite gotten around to translating. -.-;
Anyone have any other hints/suggestions? Do the red streaks mean something different for each of the cards it appears in? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6727/moon.jpg Here's a sample of the Moon Card
http://www.moonchild.ch/Tarot/major/Sun/19images/19D.JPG And a sample of The Sun
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| Fulgour |
27 Feb 2005 |
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Compare:
XVIIII EL SOL to EL LOCO
and
XVIII LA LUNA to VI LA ENAMORADOS
What do you see if more taken this way?
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| fyreflye |
27 Feb 2005 |
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Many of the Spanish tarots, including Dali's, reflect a symbol system devised by Eudes Picard at the beginning of the 20th Century. Here's the meaning of the minors as uncovered by Cerulean: http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=434213&postcount=23
Recent discussions here of El Gran Tarot Esoterico and the Crystal Tarot will shed further light.
As to your specific question: my familiarity with a number of tarots designed by artists as well as having hung out with a few artists myself leads me to conclude that an artist's tarot is more likely to reflect the freedom of his imagination than any rigid symbol system.
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| Cerulean |
27 Feb 2005 |
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from Tarotgarden.com.
Actually other people are right about this deck being a Dalisque's reinterpretation. The color key provided by Johannes Fiebig seems to be a generic color interpretation--he doesn't say that he found this associative color key came from Dali. Fieberg's suggestions to read the painted color additions:
White-The original state (like the empty page) or completion and healing. The mind's delusion, the white shadow, (animus), or the uncharted realms of the mind.
Grey-The unconscious, indifference, equality, and an ubiased attitude.
Black: the unknown, inside of earth, inner aspect of an issue, the black box, the black shadow (anima), the dark night of the soul, and the uncharted realms of the psyche.
Red: the heart, feeling, willpower, and the life force.
Yellow: the sun, consciousness, joy of living, but also evy and mental tensions.
Blue: The wide-opened sky, clear water, spirituality.
Green:Fresh, young, promising, inexperienced, immature, and vegetative.
Brown: Close to nature, down-to-earth, centered, carnal, and physical
Purple: Borderline experience. See blue and red.
I didn't see any mention of red meanings in the Sun or Moon cards. I don't know why Dali did add any of his colors, but I do appreciate his artistry.
Is your friend getting a Spanish dictionary or learning Spanish to figure out the meanings? I've been learning Italian to figure out some of my historical tarots and I haven't given up yet...
Cerulean
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| Azimel |
27 Feb 2005 |
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Wow, such quick responses! I'll have to go in order ^^:
Fulgour: Yes, I see your point. The figure from El Loco to El Sol is particularly striking. *Sigh* I wish I had a copy of this deck myself. I love pulling imagery like that, personally. Between the two of us, we were unable to do any real in depth study of the cards. I'll have to point this out to my friend, however. Thank you.
Fyreflye: Unfortunately, with my dozen or so searches on these forums, I never thought to look up "Spanish Tarot" or anything of the like (<---feels silly). I'll have to read through the forum better when I have the chance; I just wanted to thank you quickly for sending the link my way!
And yes, we figured as much that Dali's tarot would truly be something that might express pure Dali-ism (yay for made up words!) as anything else. That is one of the major reasons why my friend wanted the deck. I completely understand what you mean: I have a few artist friends of my own and one of them is particularly into tarot. It's less of a "tarot" thing as an artistic concept... it's quite a fasinating thing to see.
Cerulean: Ahh... Fieberg DOES supply some color interpretation... though, to be honest, I've always been wary of generic tarot interpretations myself. It sounds like the color symbolism he uses is what you might find said about any tarot deck... It's wholly usable but it makes me slightly twitchy to think that Dali would be following such a "color code" exclusively, going back to what Fyreflye said.
Also, thanks for telling me that Fieberg doesn't shed much light on the mystery of what the red might actually mean in El Sol and La Luna cards. It's quite intriguing... However, you've saves some panicked translation time. As for my friend, she knows some Spanish, as do I (my reading skills are alright, and my speaking skills are... well... let's say that I wouldn't compare my skills to the brightest crayon in the box). Actually, it's funny, as she has been telling me for the last few months she has been wanting to relearn Spanish... and she told me that this deck and the book that came with it was a perfect oppertunity! :0) However, given some time (and a Spanish dictionary! ^^) Fieburg's words will be understood!
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| fyreflye |
27 Feb 2005 |
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] I believe Tarotgarden.com is still selling the English version of the Jubilee edition...hope you can get it as well, if it works for both of you to have the same deck.
In fact the Jubilee is currently down to $40 in Tarot Garden's Reverse Auction sale.
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| Azimel |
28 Feb 2005 |
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In fact the Jubilee is currently down to $40 in Tarot Garden's Reverse Auction sale.
^^ You guys are too spiffy. I think I'm GOING to have to pick that up!
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| Emeraldgirl |
02 Mar 2005 |
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My mother always said "if you can read anything into a Dali then you are already insane" (LOL) She thought it was fantastic when I got my deck. I have noticed some simalarities between different cards in the deck but I haven't had time to fully examine them yet. I definately will be tonight though and hopefully I will have something more to contribute tomorrow
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The Dali Tarot Symbolism Trouble thread was originally posted on 27 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.
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