knight of wands Reversed/BiPolarism

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

bladeraven	10 Feb 2005
I was curious..can this card be used in conjunction of interpreting bipolarism or cheating in a person...the reason why is that I did the Snapshot Relationship Spread and the knight of wands reversed came up for the guy who has BiPolarism and is a cheating.

MeeWah	10 Feb 2005
I can see Knight-Wands-R to refer to cheating or to being untrustworthy (it has appeared as such upright) but would not necessarily associate it with bi-polarism. Mainly because the former need not automatically link with the latter but that may depend on the reader's view. Such as how the suit of Wands is perceived within the context of the reading & may also involve surrounding cards.

bladeraven	10 Feb 2005
ahhh...that plays a good point there....For some reason when I did the reading...BiPolarism leapt out...I think because the individual in question had a very unstable atmosphere around him...the cheating and untrustworthiness made sense and I was surprised to pick up bipolarism.... I had never thought about that (BiPolarism) being in play and it's really helpful and insightful to get other people's persepective!

WalesWoman	10 Feb 2005
I"ve heard that the negative qualities of a Knight of Wands is... a player, a flirt, and cheating, but never associated bi-polar. I would expect to see something with balance or imbalance rather, like the Moon maybe, Chariot, 2 Pentacles maybe even Strength or Temperance or Hanged Man. Hmmmm. The firey temper outbursts...swing first think later of Knt Wands could maybe apply for the depressive, moodiness side of bi-polarism, but then I'd expect to see 5 Swords or 9 Swords even. Well, then there is the manic, happy go lucky everything is wonderful frantic side...yeah, I could see the Knight of Wands there too. Still and all, I doubt if I'd be looking at the person's mental health when this card comes up and look at the dating department...loyal or fickle? True blue or blarney?

Thirteen	10 Feb 2005
Sticky question. I have to agree that I'm more inclined to see the cheater rather than the bi-polar. The problem is that the cheater knows what he's doing, and doing it for his own selfish reasons. This sounds more like our flirtatious Knight of Wands rx. But a person who is bi-polar isn't doing what they're doing deliberately or with ulteror motives--they're following extreme chemical and mood swings. This is why cups and the Moon are more likely to indicate such problems. Cups are all about emotions and in this respect the emotions are out of control. The question you have to ask is does he cheat because he's bi-polar, or because he's a cheat--or a bit of both? I would say your Knight/Wands would indicate that he cheats because he's a cheat, and his being bi-polar is an additional problem. It might make the cheating worse, or give him more of an excuse, but it's not the root cause. If he wasn't bi-polar, he'd still cheat.

MeeWah	10 Feb 2005
Thirteen explains it succinctly. Bi-polar is a health condition, not of morals or values per se. Cheating, however, tends to be a lack of values. An instability usually of the emotional or psychological character (such as a character flaw), but need not be related to the mental condition.

caridwen	11 Feb 2005
bladeraven wrote: ...I think because the individual in question had a very unstable atmosphere around him...the cheating and untrustworthiness made sense and I was surprised to pick up bipolarism.... Are you reading body language/atmosphere as opposed to the cards here? I don't think you can read something like bi polarism from a single card, it would have to be backed up by other cards to come out with such a 'diagnosis'. Although that is what your intuition told you it was so... I did a reading for someone in which there were very odd arcs in the cards. Veering from one extreme to the next - interesting and strange. I interpreted it as being very emotional, even though the cards weren't 'emotional' cards, as I couldn't account for these arcs. Yes, turned out they were bi polar. Also, in the manic phase of bi polar - infidelity is common...

Arnnaria	11 Feb 2005
Having some bipolar family members, I would definitley say "The Lovers" (Card of the Gemini) would represent this psychological condition. The Moon is also a good card, but that is just one side of bipolarism - the depression side. There are also days for bipolars of The Sun - where everything is going right, utter optimism, and joy for the world. As for the Knight of Wands reversed? Well it sounds like you already knew the person in question was bipolar. This could show the downtime of the end of a manic episode. Maybe the person in question is gonna drop off suddenly and realize what occurred in their manic state. The best advice to give your querent is to have an open heart and figure out what's going on to counteract the inverted wands [maybe "be" the queen of chalices or king of chalices].

bladeraven	11 Feb 2005
Thank you..this has been a really great thread...Interesting about the point about figuring out what's countering the knight of wands reversed...

bladeraven	11 Feb 2005
wasn't there another card that also was indictive of cheating??

Moongold	11 Feb 2005
Greetings bladeraven ~ Bipolar mental health conditions are usually the result of clear biochemical imbalances but all sorts of what we call sometimes biopsychosocial influences come into play. In a reading I would look for things that sybolized problems with balance and take those into consideration with the surrounding cards and other things I may know about the individual. Take a look at these two cards, for example: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/Firepeace/Bipolar-cards.gif Both of these have appeared in reference to a person who had bipolar disorder yet one might not normally think of them in relation to an issue like this.. The first image is of Death in the Fey deck.. Close examination will show that the eyes of the Fey are different colours: one blue and one red. This is the pointof balance. Around her neck hangs a pendant showing an eclipse; the moon eclipsing the sun. From a thin thread over the Fey’s left shoulder hangs an egg. partly obscured by the delicate web of her wing. Before the Fey lies a game of chess, often seen as representing the game of life. The white Star has fallen in this game and the white king is frozen with fear in the centre, surrounded by dark pieces. There is no escape. The Fey herself is elf-like and beautiful. Her head rests on her hand and she has an appearance of bemused resignation. This image applies to a young woman whom I know had bipolar disorder. There is a strong physical resemblance to the actual person. The eyes were the pivotal point but all the other elements in the card speak of the context of her life. The Moon eclipsing the sun speaks of illusion The chess game speaks of fear and the dice of life falling against her. Eggs are the symbol of life. This egg represents her life hanging from a thread. Part of the egg is obscure, signifying the fact that she is now dead. This is of course the Death card too but death does not always mean death. The second image is the Hanged Man who has also represented the same person. The Hanged One in this image could be androgynous and here she is a young woman, slender but graceful and balletic in the way she hangs from the tree . The whole image is reversed as can happen in the state of bipolar disorder. Out of balance . Despite that she looks peaceful and the halo of illusion hangs around her head. She is suspended in unreality. The other cards in both these readings were a part of the story and I knew the young woman to whom they refer. All of these factors together give me additional insight so the interpretation and representation is very clear. It may not always so clear to the reader. In any reading I would consider carefully the whole throw and the spread, not simply one card. Readers have different approaches and gifts. I am not one who gets the immediate flash. I simply feel and know from what the cards say and the connections that simply happen. In such instances I always validate by referring to the messages in cards themselves and the story woven through them..

bladeraven	13 Feb 2005
I need to see if I wrote the spread /cards pulled that I had done...but it was in relation to several other cards that was related to the querant...i had a huge overwhelming feeling of like being a roller coaster when I read on his side and when I look at the knight of wands reversed..it gave me a dizzy feeling like I was constantly being pulled to the extreme to both sides... Let me see if I can find the spread and I'll post it.

Moongold	13 Feb 2005
Greetings bladeraven ~ I had forgotten this but once the Hierophant card in the Ancestral Path deck came up in reference to a woman who happens to be a nurse. Do you know this card? The entire image reminded me of a long ago scene in a psychiatric unit I had often visited and in the context of the other cards I "knew" something was the matter with the woman to whom the card referred. As so happened my guess of some kind of mental illness was correct but it was not specific and I could do no more than hint at it gently. The knowledge was more certain against other things the cards were revealing and some things the querent said about her family. I have found the Ancestral Path to be one of those decks which at times is very literal. We are all different but very carefully, I can say that my experience has been that sometimes the Tarot gives us images which tap into knowledge we already have. Other people may have clear and new revelations. Many blessings

bladeraven	13 Feb 2005
(nod) I think the tarot helps us tap into parts of us that we are otherwise not aware of...I'm not familiar with the Ancesteral Path..I need to look into those..I have the Osho Zen, Radiant Rider waite and Haindl... As far as bipolarism..I'm fascinated by the subject one, because my major is in Anthropology, I have an A.A. in Sociology and the experiences of people who has to dealt with individuals such as the subject of the readign I did...my friend, "H" is dating a bipolar and she described him as jekyll/hyde.... She is just now learning the Tarot and I told her that you don't always need a gift that what the Tarot can and does do is forces us to explore parts of our lives we are otherwise not aware of...I think and feel with BiPolarisms...it causes us to unleashes parts of our souls that is normally repressed or not acknowledge...

Moongold	13 Feb 2005
Bladeraven ~ You might like to read a book by Richard Warner called Recovery from Schizophrenia: Psychiatry and the Political Economy Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1985 (there are later editions). Richard Warner is a social psychiatrist who describes how modern political, labour market and cultural influences affect the way society deals with mental illness overall, not just schizophrenia. It is a well written and informed book and will give you perspectives on how we might do things differently. It also gives information about how "mental illness" is dealt with in non-western cultures.

bladeraven	13 Feb 2005
ooo..another book for my long list of books...It sounds like Power of Myth...Joseph Campbell maynot be well like by many but they have to admit..he does open door to explorations

Moongold	13 Feb 2005
Hahahaha _ so you now have to choose between being a Tarot reader and a book reader? The Knight of Wands is like a big puppy in armour. He seems to larger than life in everything. I have all the Knights lined up before me now. Knight Wands has a red horse and he himself has a red scarf or something like that flowing from his helmet. He carries a Wand, and the horse he rides seems to be prancing more than surging forward. He wears a flamboyant yellow cloak dotted with large salamanders over his armour. I had a to laugh when I looked at the Wand and remembered the little wooden swords and poles my brothers had as boys when we all played Camelot. Knight Wands is a grown up boy! He certainly is all *show*. His most apparent peer, the Knight of Swords has much more sense of purpose about him. The other two *steadfast* Knights are just not in the picture. So you have quite a flamboyant character, charming no doubt and fun as a companion! If you reversed this, how different it would be! I can see where you are tempted to think "bipolar" but sense that this may be too extreme for the Knight Wands. The Knight Wands ego bounces back quickly, I think. His ups and downs seem to me to be more transitory, the product of immaturity more than clinical illness. It might depend on the other cards. I have been thinking about this issue of *diagnosis* quite a lot over the last few days and wonder whether something so serious as clinical mental illness might not always appear as a Tarot Major. Just a thought, not a conclusion. Mental illness is such a devasting experience, often fragmenting the lives of everyone concerned, let alone the individual experiencing it. There is a difference also between *diagnosis* per se and the perception of a major disintegrating force. Going back to earlier posts, however, I would be very careful about attributing such illness to a person based on one card. If you know , however, it is amazing what additional insights the Tarot can give.

bladeraven	13 Feb 2005
Lol..this individual is the Knight of Swords and dresses the part...you brought up another interesting point about diagnosis and the Majors...since with Bi-polar..there are waves of emotions and sometimes "normalacy"... with this much variation or "rainbow" I think you hit a point too...that would mean that it would be hard for the Tarot to catch this type of behaviour..maybe the moment of the behaviour but not the actually illness.

Moongold	13 Feb 2005
bladeraven wrote: Lol..this individual is the Knight of Swords and dresses the part...you brought up another interesting point about diagnosis and the Majors...since with Bi-polar..there are waves of emotions and sometimes "normalacy"... In the acute stages of bipolar the waves are tsunamis. With medication the waves can be calmed. There are some types of bi-polar illness that are resistant to medication, however. Often a return to "normalcy" isvery difficult when the person is left with the aftermath of the tsunami. Quote: .....with this much variation or "rainbow" I think you hit a point too...that would mean that it would be hard for the Tarot to catch this type of behaviour..maybe the moment of the behaviour but not the actually illness. I think it is sometimes hard clinically for the diagnosticians themselves to make a diagnosis! People often have more than one diagnosis, depending on what doctors they see. A good psychiatrist once told us in training that the *diagnosis* was simply a tool the clinician uses to understand the illness and to treat it using current knowledge. Mental illness is so uncertain and individual, diagnosis often takes some time and a number of episodes to make. For example, I think DSM IVR still requires at least six months and a number of episodes before a diagnosis of schizophrenia can be made. Of course, this is western medicine There are other approaches as well. I think the Tarot can indicate a major disfunction which would be interpreted according to the Reader's knowledge and gifts. Specificity may always questionable, however.

The knight of wands Reversed/BiPolarism thread was originally posted on 10 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.