Question about meaning in tarot.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ho Kok Hong	03 Feb 2005
We all know there's a lot of different tarot cards designed by some 'tarotrist' and most of it have different meaning. But is there any way to know WHAT IS THE CARD IS TRYING TO TELL? I get confused because I can't find some suitable answer for some questions and sometimes it may come out a strange meaning. I would be glad if anyone can give me advice on judging the real meaning on the card and thanks of the reply you put. (I've found my tarot cards last year.thanks for concerning me.I rarely come to the forum because I am studying.I apologize for this.)

caridwen	03 Feb 2005
Maybe this will help:) http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=14874

tarotlova	03 Feb 2005
How about looking at the card piece by piece, for example if you see say a red rose and that means love to you, then you have one small detail of what the card is trying to tell you. Then look for some other small detail and so on and so on until you can't see anything more in that card and then try and put it all together and make notes on it, so you remember it next time it turns up, that way no matter what deck you use if you remember the symbols meanings it won't matter. Good Luck!

SunChariot	04 Feb 2005
tarotlova wrote: How about looking at the card piece by piece, for example if you see say a red rose and that means love to you, then you have one small detail of what the card is trying to tell you. Then look for some other small detail and so on and so on until you can't see anything more in that card and then try and put it all together and make notes on it, so you remember it next time it turns up, that way no matter what deck you use if you remember the symbols meanings it won't matter. Good Luck! What Tarotlova said. :-) I agree totally. Yes each deck and cards are created differently. That is not important. What IS important is that Tarot is a means to teach us to access our intuitions and connect to the unverse, rather than a bunch of pre-set out meanings. How you know what meaning a card has for you is to look at it as tarotlova said, for it's symbolism just like poetry....What a symbol means to you may very well not be what it means to someone else adn that's perfectly fine. The thing is to find the symbolism in the card's image and then to FEEL what it means to you on that day, in relation to the question you asked, and related to the cards postition in the spread... Bar

caridwen	04 Feb 2005
SunChariot wrote: What Tarotlova said. :-) I agree totally. Yes each deck and cards are created differently. That is not important. What IS important is that Tarot is a means to teach us to access our intuitions and connect to the unverse, rather than a bunch of pre-set out meanings. How you know what meaning a card has for you is to look at it as tarotlova said, for it's symbolism just like poetry....What a symbol means to you may very well not be what it means to someone else adn that's perfectly fine. The thing is to find the symbolism in the card's image and then to FEEL what it means to you on that day, in relation to the question you asked, and related to the cards postition in the spread... Bar But surely there are meanings to the Tarot symbols that are not purely subjective - it's useful to first study what the symbols, colours etc mean to the deck creators - to get a grounding so to speak, then you can start to apply it to yourself and your everyday. If we take the poetry analogy - yes of course you can read poetry and find deep meaning for yourself. But, if you actually study what the poet meant and was trying to say, you will find more meaning. And, if you study the time in which it was written and that culture, you will find even more. It's like learning a new language and getting a feel for that language. Once you know and understand what the new words mean, you can start creating your own poetry.

Fulgour	04 Feb 2005
Learning card meanings can be as simple as learning how to play the game of 8 Ball, even with variations. But when you learn about yourself and your abilities, discovering your talents and passions, it's not a game. So as you acquire a set of basic meanings, remember that no two games of 8 Ball were ever alike, or can be.

SunChariot	04 Feb 2005
Okay, you're both right. LOL I probably explained myself badly. It's been one of those weeks where I have barely slept. :-) Of course you need some basic knowledge of Tarot. I am sure I have read over 30 books on it by now, and I have a general idea by now of what the basic meanings of the cards are without looking them up. I wouldn't suggest you pick up a deck of Tarot cards without first learning the basics. Just trying to say that in the end, the way to know what the card is trying to tell you, as per the original question, is in your heart, not from the book. As it is still to me a means to access your intuition and the answers come from out unconsciouses, the real answers come from inside us. I still do think that symbolism means different things to different people. Reading about the deck creator's views can give you ideas you had not thought of, which is great. But when the creator's view of what it means is different from yours, it is still your own feelings you need to follow and ignore the rest. Hope that makes more sense, and again feel free to disagree. I can only tell you my point of view. This is what Tarot is to me. But of course Tarot is about very different things to different people. And whatever brings you joy and enlightenment is a good path for you.:-) Have a great weekend all, Bar

Thirteen	05 Feb 2005
SunChariot wrote: I still do think that symbolism means different things to different people. Actually, symbolism can have remarkably uniform meanings given a culture. For example, it was suggested that a "rose" means "Love" and certainly, in Western Civilization, it means that to enough people that on Feb. 14 you won't find a single rose anywhere--they'll be sold out to lovers giving them to lovers. The earliest Tarot decks we know of come from a time when EVERYONE knew what the symbols meant. They learned them in church and they recognized them as we recognized words on a page. So a woman with a blue veil was the Virgin Mary, white meant purity, etc. Whole plays could be performed without a word spoken because the gestures, clothing, color, and emblems held by people were SO ritualized and full of symbolism that everyone knew what was being said. This lasted through the Victorian age. In most of Europe, you could communicate with a lady by sending her a bouquet of flowers--each one having it's own meaning. By looking at the bouquet, she could tell what you were trying to say to her. Those early tarot cards have a symbolism that the creators EXPECTED would be recognized and known by the readers. The meaning of every color, every object held be it sword or flower. I don't think these, or the meanings of symbols in other decks should ever be ignored. Afterall, why use a deck where the designer put Hawthorne bushes around the Hermit if you're going to ignore entirely the reason WHY the deck's creator did that? I'm not saying anyone should be a slave to the deck creator's symbolism, nor am I saying that you're wrong about different meanings--all I'm trying to point out is that that there is actually four types of symbolism going on in tarot reading and NONE of them should be ignored as possible interpetations: 1) Your personal symbolism. This is where you were pricked on the thumb as a child by a rose and so associate it with pain. So, a "Rose" = Pain to you. 2) The Creator's symbolism. This is where you read the book and find that the creator is using Chinese symbolism. In China, Roses symbolize "youth." So, going by the deck, "Rose" = Youth. 3) Cultural symbolism--that's where Roses symbolize Love and Beauty, according to the reader and querent's cultural knowledge. 4) The Querent's symbolism--might it mean anything in particular to the Querent? Her ex-lover always gave her roses after cheating on her, so Roses = infidelity? Any one of these four, or combination there-of could come into play during a reading. It depends on which is the strongest given the symbol, the question and the other cards.

Thirteen	05 Feb 2005
Ho Kok Hong wrote: But is there any way to know WHAT IS THE CARD IS TRYING TO TELL? I get confused because I can't find some suitable answer for some questions and sometimes it may come out a strange meaning. Welcome to the forum, Hong! Every reader goes through a period in learning tarot cards where they get confused. You are at a point where the meaning of the cards don't offer the right answer to a question. What you need to do is: 1) Learn more meanings. You may have learned that the 4 of Swords means "illness." Now you have to learn what else it might mean. It could mean, for example, "Rest," or "meditation," or "retreat." These other meanings, as you learn them, may be suitable answers. Illness was not, but "retreat" might be exactly right. The more you know, the more choices you have, the more likely you will find a suitable answer. 2) Learn to be flexable with the meanings. For example, just because you know the meaning of the 4/swords to be "Illness" doesn't mean the person is very sick or will be in the hospital. Maybe it'll be no more than a headache. Don't be too strict with the meaning. Think of the worst it could be (going to the hospital), but also think of the best it could be (a headache). Which is the more suitable answer? I should warn you, that although learning more meanings will help you a lot, it will also give you a new problem :) You may find yourself confused as to which meaning out of so many is the right meaning. All beginning readers have these two problems. At first, we can't figure out how to make the meanings we know fit the questions. Then, we learn more meanings, and we have trouble knowing which is the right one. This is normal. The more readings you do, the easier it gets. Learning, discussion with other readers and practice, practice, practice will help.

Fulgour	05 Feb 2005
Thirteen wrote: Any one of these four, or combination there-of could come into play during a reading. It depends on which is the strongest given the symbol, the question and the other cards. Very intelligently, and enjoyably, written and expressed. I bought a Chess set for my nephew and the instructions, very precise and exactly correct, fit on 1 side of 1 page. It's amazing how much knowledge depends on experience.

caridwen	05 Feb 2005
Adding to the 'Querent's Symbolism: - I always find it useful to ask the querent what they see in the cards; if anything stands out or strikes them as relevant to their situation. I've said this before somewhere here, but I once did a reading for a buddhist monk using the Original RWS and he saw buddhists/monks in the cards because of the saffron robes. Also, in China for example, red has a very different meaning as does white. Red symbolises happiness, joy, jubilation and a bride traditionally wears a red wedding dress. People give out red envelopes at the Spring Festival and weddings containing money. White is funeral garb. Polar opposite to Western black or the white wedding dress. Not a great colour because of the negative connotations ie Death of a loved one. Close family dress in white.

HANDMAIDEN MI	05 Feb 2005
Greetings! I think even the most experienced Readers wonder what cards might actually symbolize/mean during readings, and they develop a huge bank of knowledge with lots of different systems in order to link the intuition element. I found it helpful to understand what can be termed as the traditional meanings, then when Ihave a deck that doesn't correspond to the traditional I can see.. both sides so to speak. It is useful to study the history of Tarot as well. My Witches Tarot uses the face cards as seasons and are modified with an additional card. I was quite confused with it all until I grew in my studies and got some additional info... Waite, 78 degrees of wisdom, book of Thoth, and so forth. Especially helpful to become a member here on Aeclectic.. where the wise ones ARE. It also helped to meditate on the cards... look at them, dwell within them for a while to see things. The fact is it is a communicatin device and the deck and system is like a dialect.. also, I try to determine what the 1st card out of the deck is saying.. intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally, the rest of the cards will fall into place.. identification is the challenge, and mystery, like a detective... for "forensics" ho ho. The suits are quite specific in how they represent the elements, and the numbers, so there are foundations you can always refer to. Reading Tarot is a growth process, one for intuition and the enlightenment factor... it can be overwhelming at first.. stick with it!! Guessing is the idea that we trust our guts, or that is our aim... first "feeling" is usually the right one in detective work for the meanings of cards. Ms. Ae

Little Baron	05 Feb 2005
Thirteen wrote: 1) Your personal symbolism . This is where you were pricked on the thumb as a child by a rose and so associate it with pain. So, a "Rose" = Pain to you. 2) The Creator's symbolism . This is where you read the book and find that the creator is using Chinese symbolism. In China, Roses symbolize "youth." So, going by the deck, "Rose" = Youth. 3) Cultural symbolism --that's where Roses symbolize Love and Beauty, according to the reader and querent's cultural knowledge. 4) The Querent's symbolism --might it mean anything in particular to the Querent? Her ex-lover always gave her roses after cheating on her, so Roses = infidelity? Found that really interesting Thirteen and something I will keep in mind when learning. Clearly communicated, also. Thanks. LB

Ho Kok Hong	11 Feb 2005
Thanks,everyone. Now,if anyone who has use the Universal Tarot by Maxwell Miller, you may find something different from the 4 of sword.The keyword for the card is 'Compassion'(A good card) but was different from the meaning of the origin 4 of sword. I read from books to increase my knowledge of tarot reading and I found something interest thing on a tarot magazine. A querent was envy of her(not sure about the sex)taroist friendfor having a tarot deck and asked her when she'll have her first tarot deck. After she picked the card,her friend said that:"You've picked the Hierophant. It means that you'll get the card in 5 months.".Then,the querent asked:"Where will I get it?","It's Temperance you've picked.you'll get the card from a place where there are lots of water." 5 months later,the querent told her friend that she went to Venice and get her first raiders tarot. I also experienced the same menthod by using the same way.At Kelantan(Where my school located there),we have night revision times and everyone must attend.I saw a friend of mine was frustrating for looking her exercise book.Then,she joked:"Is there someone love me secretly?",I said:"Want to ask the tarot?".She picked a reversed 2 of cups. "The one who took your book is not in good mood" "Gosh!I don't feel good now.Is that me?" "Why don't you checked on the others book?Maybe you put in together." After she checked all the books(except exercise book.She checked before I come in the class.),she exclaimed:"Oh thank you,I put it inside my Chinese book.".After that,she told everyone that I've "Level up". Base on the 3 "stories" above,Does everyone feel fishy about tarot meaning?

HANDMAIDEN MI	11 Feb 2005
Hi ya! Going fishin in the wishin... Your common sense answered her question about her lost book. The question though about does someone love me secretly? Was that the question? 2 of cups reversed can say... no passion found... quite easily. See, it depends on the reader and what the reader is using as a foundation for understanding.. the layout, the cards. The better the readers confidence in meanings... which have to be applied in a personal way because of the INTUITION factor, the more exact the information that can be extracted out of the future. It is style too.. sounds like the deck in Venice shows a future decision which, when she went to Venice, and found a deck near water, she fulfilled her "destiny"... was aware at least on a subconcsious level that .... AHA!! Voila! The door has opened and what do I see? Exactly what I WANT... !! The question is the key... I think that the more specific the question the more specific the answer, BUT the other side of that is HOW shall you decide what the cards are saying to this ANSWER. In studies, it is good to work with one layout, over and over again, with yourself on a specific question... until you get aha! experiences. They will come n'est pas? Ms. Ae

Ho Kok Hong	15 Feb 2005
So,you concluded that the accurate of a tarot is depend on the explaination of the reader?

caridwen	15 Feb 2005
Ho Kok Hong wrote: So,you concluded that the accurate of a tarot is depend on the explaination of the reader? Hi Ho Kok Hong! I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. The cards themselves are bits of hard paper on which images are painted. There is no supernatural force guiding them like ghostly hands - a Tarot reader can be wrong and interpret the cards incorrectly, this can be due to inexperience, lack of knowledge or too much reliance on preconceived ideas. Many readers struggle when doing their own readings because they read the cards in a slanted way or know too much information. I usually find that Tarot gives the relevant information in the most straightforward way possible and that can sometimes be very literal. Sometimes a reading is confusing because of the way a question was asked or the querent was unclear about what they wanted to know. It sometimes answers a question more relevant to the querents than the one they initially asked. Sometimes it seems wrong or irrelevant but in hindsight was remarkably correct. That's why it's a good idea to write down readings and cards and compare them later. From my experience Tarot cards don't tell untruths or play devilish tricks on you like mischievous sprites. If you don't believe in Tarot or don't trust it then I suggest you don't use it and find another tool that suits you better.:)

Ho Kok Hong	15 Feb 2005
Oh, hi! caridwen. About the third story that you asked, the girl ask me who took her book, not who's falling in love with her. I didn't mean I don't believe in tarot, I am just trying to make sure either the way to solve the question is by the reader's explaination or the cards' meaning. But I am sure that the card is not guided by evil spirit. Anyway,thanks for all the advice you've gave.It's really useful.I'll try if I can.:)

caridwen	15 Feb 2005
Ho Kok Hong wrote: Oh, hi! caridwen. About the third story that you asked, the girl ask me who took her book, not who's falling in love with her. I didn't mean I don't believe in tarot, I am just trying to make sure either the way to solve the question is by the reader's explaination or the cards' meaning. But I am sure that the card is not guided by evil spirit. Anyway,thanks for all the advice you've gave.It's really useful.I'll try if I can.:) The meaning of the reading lies in many things such as: The reader's initial impression and any 'intuitive' feeling they get about the cards. Images that jump out at either the reader or the querent. Positions of the images and figures and how they relate to each other. Colours; numbers; suits; elements. And of course, any rules or programming or relations you see yourself when reading Tarot. I find if a Tarot reading is incorrect or seems at odds with what is asked; I am interpreting the cards wrongly or the querent has asked the wrong question. The cards mean nothing without someone to interpret them, but the reader can be wrong in their interpretation.:)

Ho Kok Hong	19 Feb 2005
caridwen wrote: The meaning of the reading lies in many things such as: The reader's initial impression and any 'intuitive' feeling they get about the cards. Images that jump out at either the reader or the querent. Positions of the images and figures and how they relate to each other. Colours; numbers; suits; elements. And of course, any rules or programming or relations you see yourself when reading Tarot. If the reader can't get any images jump out from them,does that mean the answer is unknown or it can just be solved by the ordinary answer by the guide book?

caridwen	19 Feb 2005
Ho Kok Hong wrote: If the reader can't get any images jump out from them,does that mean the answer is unknown or it can just be solved by the ordinary answer by the guide book? Ho Kok Hong, sometimes an image will be relevant or stand out for the querent or yourself. Sometimes you will have a 'feeling' of the message the spread or individual cards are tying to convey. I don't think an answer is unknown it depends on the interpretation of the reader. You can of course try a reference book when you are starting out or several and try and link the cards through the various meanings. Try the Exchange Forum to practice or post on of your own readings to get a little more experience if that is what you are lacking:)

The Question about meaning in tarot. thread was originally posted on 03 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.