Sets of meanings

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

TrueStar	05 Feb 2005
One thing that makes me feel a little uncomfortable is the meanings issue. As a beginner in tarot I have found, when studying the meanings of each card, that they vary from one book or source to other. It seems like almost each tarotist has his own set of meanings for the deck. This makes me really confuse: a. ¿which set of meanings do i have to trust? b. ¿is there one and only true set of meanings? c. if there is one true set of meanings ¿from where did it come? ¿what is its origin? I find of great need to have a clear opinion of this matter, because without a firm set of values for the cards its impossible to read. I'll like to know how experienced tarotists deal with this intriguing issue and have some clues for myself as a reader. Thank you in advance, Daniel

gollog	05 Feb 2005
hi truestar! I would recommend you start with making a tarot journal where you first write YOUR meaning to the different cards, before you start reading books. Just write down what first comes in to you mind. After that I would start reading a few different books and compare the meanings the author gives with you own. Now add some of the meanings of the authors you think are complementary to your own and seem, in your opinion, to fit the card. Tarotcards cannot be interpreted in one way, therefore there is not one true meaning for the cards. Although, as you start reading different books you will notice that there mostly is quite and overlap in the meanings. The most important thing is to find out what a card means to you! good luck!

Fulgour	05 Feb 2005
That which isn't in books, life will teach you. *

tarotbear	05 Feb 2005
There are no 'true set of tarot meanings' anywhere. If there were, there would be nothing to discuss, and no need for shelves of books on the subject (YIKES! Did I actually type that? Hope my publisher doesn't read it! LOL). If you 'learn' only one author's meanings, all you do is parrot someone else's ideas, which means you would use them even when you disagree with them. Tarot is fluid. It is not written in stone - anywhere. No one meaning is right or wrong.

HudsonGray	05 Feb 2005
Add to that the fact the Thoth style of decks have different meanings from the Rider Waite style, which are different from the Marseille types, which don't jive at all with the oracles---THEN figure that some artist decks are based on the Artist's ideas for the card, which don't have to be the same as the other types.... Get a bunch of books, compare what's similar, look at the cards yourself to see how that resonates with you, then use what feels right. There's no sense forcing the meanings, and as the others have said, there isn't any 'true' meanings for the cards over and above anything else. The LWB gives you a place to start, to use as a guide, the other books help guide you, but when it all comes down to actual reading, the cards will let you know what they're saying, generally. From visual images, to standard text meanings, to non-sequitor ideas popping up in your mind, to maybe even a connection to last night's tv show that is appropriate to the reading itself.

Fudugazi	05 Feb 2005
iHola TrueStar! There are ways of making the meanings less subjective than whatever the mood strikes you. It is to learn about symbolism. Tarot is built upon a set of symbols that had specific associations in specific places at specific times. That's one way to look at it. But symbol is very powerful - like myth. It is powerful enough to shift emphasis, and even meaning, with time and place. When you and I read the Illiad, though we can learn what it meant to the ancient Greeks who heard it, it will still resonate differently in our minds. We don't see Hector, Achilles or Aphrodite, their feats and failings, the way the old Greeks did. So it is with tarot. You can learn that an eagle meant Christ in Majesty, or the Imperial sign, in the 15th century -but to you an eagle might mean keen sight, predator, fascism - or a soaring spirit. And so it does: it means all that, and many things beyond. A good place to start your study of symbolism is with Chevalier and Gheerbrant's Dictionary of Symbols (translated from the French. I'm sure it exists in Spanish) - it makes for fascinating discoveries, on top of which, all 22 Major Arcana are discussed. Tarot, being built on symbolism, is built on lateral thinking - word/image associations. In theory, since there are only very distant limits to the number of associations you can make between an image and a word, there are no limits to "meanings". Add to that the interaction of several symbols (within one card, and between several cards) and you have one of the most fluid and sophisticated communication tools (between conscious and unconscious, between human and Divine, between two or more humans) ever invented. Access to that communication is all you've already read on this thread - a mixture of learning the basics of the tool (symbolism, numerology, sacred geometry, etc. etc.) and intuition in knowing how to use the learning, where to apply it, and where it doesn't apply. As for intuition - it can can only be learnt by using it :) And welcome to Aeclectic, where your journey is sure to be enlightened - and occasionally obscured!

Rusty Neon	05 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: A good place to start your study of symbolism is with Chevalier and Gheerbrant's Dictionary of Symbols (translated from the French. I'm sure it exists in Spanish) - it makes for fascinating discoveries, on top of which, all 22 Major Arcana are discussed. ... not to mention Cirlot's dictionaary of symbolism in the original Spanish ...

SunChariot	07 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: There are no 'true set of tarot meanings' anywhere. If there were, there would be nothing to discuss, and no need for shelves of books on the subject (YIKES! Did I actually type that? Hope my publisher doesn't read it! LOL). If you 'learn' only one author's meanings, all you do is parrot someone else's ideas, which means you would use them even when you disagree with them. Tarot is fluid. It is not written in stone - anywhere. No one meaning is right or wrong. I'm with tarotbear on this one. That is exactly what I feel. I also feel that, as for different decks, I have 9 now. And the cards in one deck can and often do have very different meanings from the meanings in another, expecially in the Minor Arcana. There must be 500 decks out there and each carries something of the personality and personal philosophy of its creator. And that affects the meaning of the cards. Many other things affect a particular card's meaning as well such as: the question asked, the card's position in a spread, the other cards surrounding it, even your mood on the day of reading. Each card can have almost an infinite range of meaning. No book of meanings could ever touch on more than the tip of the iceberg of a card's potential. This is for me part of Tarot's beauty, it is infinite in meaning and there is nothing it cannot tell you, no matter how subtle or complex. If each card meaning were fixed to a finite meaning, there would only be a limited range of answers it could give you. And no, that does not make a deck impossible to read, :-) You can see by how many people are here, and we are all reading Tarot. :-) There are many methods, but I use the intuitive method. I look at the image of the card as if it were poetry and find the symbolism in it and compare it to the question and "feel" what it wants to tell me. I do look at the book (the one specific to the deck) after for additional ideas as well. Then I combine the two into a unified answer. I am sure others will share their methods with you, but trust me, whatever way you find that works for you Tarot does work, and it is very possible to read the cards even though meanings differ. I know my readings have been for me very accurate, enlightening and helpful. Tarot has always been a great source of joy in my life. I wish you the same, :-) You asked: "which set of meanings do i have to trust? --the one your heart and soul feels is right for you. No one can tell you that but yourself, you feel it inside when you hit on what is right for you. What works for someone else may now for you and what works for you may not for someone else. b. ¿is there one and only true set of meanings? No, the true meanings come from inside us, and we are all different inside, although there are some basic meanings and similairities similar to most decks. c. if there is one true set of meanings. The true meaning for you is the one you find in your heart. ¿from where did it come? See above ¿what is its origin?" --It's origin is your connection to the universe. The Tarot images are archetypal images that can be accessed by your unconscious. Your unconscious thinks in images and feelings, not it words. It is a great source of wisdom , but cannot normally communicate with you and let you know its wisdom as it cannot "speak" in words. In our unconscious levels we know our connection to the universe and everything in it, and that includes the past and present. When we examine Tarot images, the pictures spark reactions in our unconsciouses that we can translate into words. Hope some of this makes sense and helps, Bar

TrueStar	14 Feb 2005
Phew... I find this a really fundamental issue and very hard to discuss because of its deep implications. At this time there are many thoughts going in my head... First of all, thank you for your answers; I apreciate very much your input on this subject. I feel really happy to have the oportunity to talk about tarot; here in Spain there are many prejudices running about it, it's almost impossible to have some talk or guide. Second, I don't want to seem unrespectfull or be misunderstood at this point. I'm on the divinatory approach of tarot, but from time to time my rational side poses me this kind of questions that make a little unrest. I don't think that tarot practice have to be completely intuitive, it can admit rational aspects. I strongly disagree with the idea that tarot can mean anything, like the Rorschach test. At least there is the meaning the authors put in their decks. I'm more interested in the possibility of historical research as a way to fix a set of meanings or at least to have a glimpse of how the original meanings were. I don't think this could go against intuitiveness in tarot, since it looks like all readers tend to internalize the given meanings to make them their own. If anybody can give me a clue in this direction, it would be highly appreciated. I'm very interested in the system of symbols in tarot; it looks like one of the few paths that leads to this original or first set of meanings. I've found three dictionaries of symbols in the library next to my house: Hans Biedermann's, Cirlot's and, of course, Chevalier and Gheerbrant's. The first have an entry for 'tarot', but it has an sceptical point of view on the matter. Cirlot is very interestig, also has an entry for 'tarot' and analyses horoscope symbols. But I find that the best one is by far Chevalier's, because of it's extent on tarot and the related symbols.

contradiction	14 Feb 2005
TrueStar wrote: Phew... I find this a really fundamental issue and very hard to discuss because of its deep implications. At this time there are many thoughts going in my head... we all have those thoughts Quote: First of all, thank you for your answers; I apreciate very much your input on this subject. I feel really happy to have the oportunity to talk about tarot; here in Spain there are many prejudices running about it, it's almost impossible to have some talk or guide. most of us have the same problem, and also are glad we found AT Quote: Second, I don't want to seem unrespectfull or be misunderstood at this point. if you are trying to learn, i for one will not take anything as unrespectful. and will try to understand your position. [quote i'm on the divinatory approach of tarot, but from time to time my rational side poses me this kind of questions that make a little unrest. i don't think that tarot practice have to be completely intuitive, it can admit rational aspects.[/quote] i also have the rational side, which i must tell to be quiet. you are right tarot does not have to be completely intuitive, alot of people use very little intuition, and have good results. but you can not rule out intuition, it is your best friend with tarot. Quote: I strongly disagree with the idea that tarot can mean anything, like the Rorschach test. At least there is the meaning the authors put in their decks. i understand what you are saying here, but after almost 20 years of reading, i have seen the cards mean alot of things i did not think they could mean. you have to be open to the possibility that the cards don't always mean what you want them to mean, or what you think they mean. Quote: I'm more interested in the possibility of historical research as a way to fix a set of meanings or at least to have a glimpse of how the original meanings were. I don't think this could go against intuitiveness in tarot, since it looks like all readers tend to internalize the given meanings to make them their own. If anybody can give me a clue in this direction, it would be highly appreciated. i'm sorry but i have not studied that much historical on the cards, but i have tried to fix a set meaning to each card. when i first started i memorized the book that came with the cards, but it was not long before i discovered that those meanings (even the one's given by the deck creator), were just suggestions. i do hope you are able to find the information you are looking for. i agree, i don't think it will go against the intuitiveness, as long as you let the two co-exist.

Little Baron	14 Feb 2005
TrueStar wrote: I strongly disagree with the idea that tarot can mean anything, like the Rorschach test. At least there is the meaning the authors put in their decks. I agree with you here, TrueStar. I have always tried to combine the two - knowledge and intuition. I start with what I have learnt and then my intuition links it to what is happening within my life. I don't alter the meanings of the card with my intuition, but as an example, in the Waite '2 of Cups', for the first time I can remember last week, I noticed the house in the background, rather than the couple holding their cups. The question I was asking revolved around romance but there was also other issues involved and one of them was a 'house'. I didn't change the meaning; it just added a little layer to that reading for me - almost like an acknowledgment. Does that make sense? A lot of people read with non-scenic pips because they can use their intuition more and not be constrained by pictures. I read with a Marseille deck for a while, but I actually found the fact that I was dealing with the core suits and numbers meant that I had to study more about numerology and the elements, how to combine them, what the symbols meant historically (there are some great threads here to learn from), rather than just 'make it up' and go along with how the picture looked for me that day. I think this is why I have so much interested in playing cards right now - because they are not hindered by a specific author/artists agenda. I have many books on Tarot, of which I have read many; I find some bits interesting, which I journal and some bits that maybe don't sit right. I think it is always good to try and get as near to the source as you can (for me anyway). If we didn't need to read and research the cards and could asign anything onto them by what we felt at that time, why bother reading the tarot? Why not read a deck of 78 (or 90) seaside postcards (I am sure that some people do). Anyway ... interesting thread ... thanks for starting it ... I hope nobody finds my opinions to be a put down of the intuitive approach as it is not meant ... I use my intuition also. We are all different. Hope this helps some LB

The Sets of meanings thread was originally posted on 05 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.