Tarot and the Ethics of Reading

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

tarotbear	01 Feb 2005
I am curious as to WHY we need to have this information - for what reason does it become necessary for us to have this knowledge to provide a reading? Are we attempting to use tarot to go places that are unethical, or even none of our business? As I asked in another thread = TO WHOM are you going to apply this 'diagnosis' and for what reasons will you justify revealing your findings? Are you looking for things that don't exist - the way that people under hypnosis reveal things that never happened but were accidentally placed there by the hypnotist? Tarot is subjective, that goes without saying. Today a symbol you looked at every day for the past 25 years suddenly pops into your head as meaning something you never considered before. Because it might - for that one instance- mean that one thing, it does not mean it forever and a day, or that we all could possibly ever see it that way, too. "Is someone's boyfriend looking at pornography in the Lovers or Death card?" "This card and this card together tell me that HE IS GAY." "You pulled the Empress card - you are pregnant!" "They are as nutty as a fruitcake - the cards tell me so." DOES ANYONE SEE ANYTHING WRONG IN ANY OF THE ABOVE STATEMENTS? What if the boyfriend has never looked at porn? What if the male querent is not gay? What if the female querent has had a tubal ligation? What if the querent is merely having a hard time explaining herself? Are you comfortable is stating for a fact that they are a sleeze, homosexual, pregant, or mentally ill? Because the cards tell you so - unequivically? A sad, sad day here on Aeclectic... :(

firemaiden	01 Feb 2005
This post has been split from the discussion on the Eight of Swords - mental illness. I think Tarotbear asks some very interesting and important questions, which deserve their own discussion. It may be a tough discussion. You are invited to be honest and give your opinions (but please remember always to be courteous to each other).

VisionQuest	01 Feb 2005
I was getting an uneasy feeling seeing those threads. Especially the idea of a reader trying to discern someone else's sexuality through tarot cards, makes me very uncomfortable. There is a lot I want to say about it, but I think it would come across as offensive, or at the very least, most likely be misunderstood. There are things you don't need to know. If you feel you have to know something in order to not offend someone, just use tact and common sense, and you'll be fine.

Arnnaria	01 Feb 2005
As a queer male, I do get concerned with people trying to judge others sexualities with Tarot cards. However, at the same time, it is something we do all the time in our minds. We think and gossip and plan and act like immature children. So why not apply that to the tarot as well? Again, the intention is what matters. Good intention: We are asking if someone is queer because we want to know if it would be a good idea to ask that person out. Bad intention: We are asking if someone is queer to out that person to their friends. Good intention: We are asking if our lover is looking at pornography so we can figure out what is distancing ourselves from that person. Bad intention: We are asking if our lover is looking at pornography so we can chastise that person once we find out the truth. Good intention: We are asking if our friends are suffering from mental illness so we can try to understand their plight and help them through it. Bad intention: We are asking if our friends are suffering from mental illness so we can classify them as "nuts" and not talk to them anymore. I know the saying that the "road to hell is paved with good intentions," but people ask silly questions all the time. How is this any different from telling someone that they will get a job they want, or that the person they like really is or is not interested in them? The tarot is a tool for exploring what is underneath the surface of things. As such, we should always go in optimistically, with an open mind, and a willingness to learn. I think that there are no wrong questions, but there are wrong intentions.

TemperanceAngel	01 Feb 2005
Yes, it is an interesting discussion....but none the less a discussion worth having...it also depends on the time and the place and the moment and the reading and the client...and most importantly, how you word it... My second paid reading I ever did, I looked at the cards again and again and all I could see was 'affair', but how to say that? I said: 'There seems to be something immoral about the relationship you are in...' (It was years ago, so I can't remember the exact wording....I remember saying 'immoral' though.) Client: 'How do you know that? How can the cards tell you that?' And then preceded to tell me their story and it was a very sad story. Now I still stand by the fact that what you say to a client and how you post here can be two very different things....and what someone takes as inappropriate, may not be the same for another. For example: Late last year I was reading in a shop, where I had worked for one and half years and a woman asked me about her boss....we did a spread and looked at the cards and I started to talk and the word I was given to describe her boss (when I say 'given', the one that came into my head...I am a psychic reader) was 'dick', I kid you not!!! (Edited to add: 'dick' is a very Australian term for 'plonker' or 'idiot'.) I thought: 'I can't say that, give me something else!' Nothing came through. And I, after many years of reading, had to trust that word. So I said it and my client laughed and clapped her hands and told me she loved me for that is exactly what she thought! Then we both laughed :) *I interrupt here to say that I do not recommend that anyone use that type of language to their clients, I am merely trying to prove a point...* 'dick' was appropriate in that place, that time, that reading and that client....as maybe was 'nutty as a fruitcake'... Once I said to a male client who was asking about his partner...first I will say here that I always use the word 'they' for partners. But on this day I said 'he', it just slipped out. My client was gay and because I said 'he' by accident it allowed my client to feel more comfortable, it broke down the barriers.... Once I said to a woman about her partner 'she', it slipped out....and 'she' was gay.... Long before I started studying Nutritional Medicine and Naturopathy I had nutrition info coming through for clients, they always confirmed with me that I was correct. The person who read for me as a teenager and in my early 20's mentioned on numerous occasions to pay attention to my cervix, I didn't for a long time and by the time I did I discovered I had pre-cancerous cells there....if only I had listened sooner. Funnily enough the vitamins she told me take and that my body lacked in 14 or so years ago are the ones my naturopath told me to take 3 months ago in a consultation.... I could on and on, probably will...tarotbear I see your point and it is a very serious one. Reading someones cards is a huge responsibility, I mean huge, especially if they pay you. Issues arise in a reading for a reason, that reason being that they need to be discussed with our clients. *I will say again that I do not recommend anyone saying what I have said or heard in readings, as that was me giving or receiving the reading(s) and it was appropriate for me and my client or me and my reader....no-one else*

Fudugazi	01 Feb 2005
I love those stories, TA You've just confirmed what I - and others! - say about readings: they are moments in time - a butterfly wing-bat, a kiss or the night you went moonlight bathing with a stranger whom you never saw again. They cannot be repeated - they are contained within the Ace of Cups or the High Priestess's book. But you make two important points: what we can say in the moment, when we have someone in front of us we can interract with - through body language, eye contact, psychic vibrations - is not what we can say to a stranger in cold print. And secondly, during those live readings, if a word, an image or an urge comes to you strongly - go with it. We read, we interpret, we listen to the voice of the Papesse... As Arnnaria says, we do no wrong if the intention is pure.

Arnnaria	01 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: As Arnnaria says, we do no wrong if the intention is pure. How beautiful! That's such a nice motto to think about. I love it when others summarize your words, and come up something even more beautiful than you could have put words to by yourself!

TemperanceAngel	01 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: You've just confirmed what I - and others! - say about readings: they are moments in time - a butterfly wing-bat, a kiss or the night you went moonlight bathing with a stranger whom you never saw again. They cannot be repeated - they are contained within the Ace of Cups or the High Priestess's book. But you make two important points: what we can say in the moment, when we have someone in front of us we can interract with - through body language, eye contact, psychic vibrations - is not what we can say to a stranger in cold print. And secondly, during those live readings, if a word, an image or an urge comes to you strongly - go with it. We read, we interpret, we listen to the voice of the Papesse... Thank you for understanding what I have written, Helvetica and for rephrasing so eloquently in your own words :) Body language, eye contact, psychic vibrations....whatever you want to call it....are so important in that moment and that moment only exists once....at the time when it happened! Arnnaria we posted at the same time! Just wanted to tell you that I really liked your post :)

Kiama	01 Feb 2005
*Stand up and claps claps claps* Gods Tarotbear, it's good to have you back. :D One thing I will say before I go to have my dinner, is that I have always said that I do not diagnose anything. However, sometimes I have combinations of cards in a reading, where I would *warn* the client of possibilities... e.g. the Empress, Ace of Wands, and others might give me a warning that in the future the querent should be very careful with contraception. However, in such a situation, I also give the other possible interpretations of these cards that don't involve biology (e.g. creativity.) But that is different to saying 'you're pregnant' or 'you've got x-disease.' Not my place to say. Bordering on breaking laws I believe. And as for sexuality... As I said in the thread, I don't see any cards that would suggest it. If it's important to the reading, the client will tell me. And who cares if somebody's looking at porn? Most things like this, we just shouldn't give a damn about. Or, if we do, just goddamn ask people yourself instead of asking a Tarot reader or a Tarot deck. Communication - it's a beautiful thing, and it saves misunderstandings. Blessings, Hungry Kiama

Fulgour	01 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: DOES ANYONE SEE ANYTHING WRONG... Rookies are always a bigger danger to themselves than the enemy.;) If a greenhorn wants to peek out of the trench for a look, Sayonara.

Gwynne	01 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: I love those stories, TA You've just confirmed what I - and others! - say about readings: they are moments in time - a butterfly wing-bat, a kiss or the night you went moonlight bathing with a stranger whom you never saw again. They cannot be repeated - they are contained within the Ace of Cups or the High Priestess's book. But you make two important points: what we can say in the moment, when we have someone in front of us we can interract with - through body language, eye contact, psychic vibrations - is not what we can say to a stranger in cold print. And secondly, during those live readings, if a word, an image or an urge comes to you strongly - go with it. We read, we interpret, we listen to the voice of the Papesse... As Arnnaria says, we do no wrong if the intention is pure. I have those *bang* moments, where I just *know* something. The questions or comments often pop out of my mouth before my brain even has a chance to digest them! "What did you do to your husband..." or "You know what to do, why aren't you trusting yourself..." But having it come to you when it's appropriate, and purposefully seeking the information in the cards are two entirely different things. I will not purposefully pry. If I see something staring at me, blatantly telling me that so and so is having an affair... I try to use tact, because being blunt can break a heart! I firmly believe that if the cards want something to be known, they will make it known, but you shouldn't pry to far, you shouldn't be looking for info on whether someone is gay, or if their pregnant or if they are having an affair. If it's important to the question or concern at hand, it will come out. Otherwise, you really don't need to know.

Rosanne	01 Feb 2005
Thank you Tarotbear for this thread. I have felt the 'sad sad day on aeclectic' myself and have learned some new lessons for myself as well. One of the most important lessons I learned long ago in reading for others is,beware of the third party questions, cards read for someone who is not there. The contract is between you and the other beside you. For example - "Is my friend Gay?" My answer might be these cards may show you why you need to know that or how you can communicate that question to your friend, or how you could deal with the answer to that question. I try really hard not to give a label to the person not present. I also try hard to read the cards not the person beside me, by their attitude or stance or familiarity. I love the tarot with a renewed passion every day, and the ethics of using it are very important to me.. so is the fun so I have printed out a large Le Temperence for me to stare at. Regards Rosanne

similia	01 Feb 2005
I've also been viewing the various posts, and can understand people having been upset by them. However I don't think the "posters" have really done anything wrong, and they don't deserve our criticism. And as pointed out we have no knowledge of why a question is being asked, nor is that any of our business. As stated by others previously any question may be acceptable where the intent is appropriate. And perhaps any answer is also acceptable. Questions such as "are they gay/veiwing porn to much/pregnant/diseased" are less than ideal, but these are situations that impact on querents lifes and may come out in a reading. (Perhaps better expressed as Q"why is my partner distant lately", A"he's obsessed with something outside the relationship" etc..) I think we should all remember that the forum is about written words, and takes away the other parts of communication, which are usually the larger part of a conversation(context, expression, emotion, all the non verbal stuff). People may use words or phrases they wouldn't ordinary to convey an idea in this format. Also given that people use this forum as a tool to learn and grow in the tarot, criticism has no place here, but helpful advice has been asked for so please respond as such. Maybe we should all remember that the person typing is a real complex person with perhaps strong feelings on the issue. When starting or responding to a thead we should keep that in mind. After all he point of tarot is to help people, even those who don't share our world view.

caridwen	01 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: Caridwen ~ Your openness is courageous and my heart is with you. I actually can't believe the cards would ever deliver the degree of certainty you seek. You might get some indicators but we see through a veil only and we could misread altogether. Possibly some people have greater gifts than others in terms of divination but I don't know any good Tarot reader who could be so certain :). I don't for sure how you asked the question and that is also really important too. Many blessings ~ Thank you - I suppose I'm in the five of cups stage still and going over this thing trying to working it out and move on. It was a very difficult time - to say the least and the questions I ask here will probably reference it in some way or another. And Similia thank you again. I appreciate the support and need it.:)

tarotbear	02 Feb 2005
I posted something similar in another thread since I did not realize this posting would be extracted to become it's own thread. In short - I have been doing readings for a man for several years now. I did so many readings for him that I stored them to disk. He is in extremely poor health brought on through a life of dangerous living ('enuf said). Poor Bob fell hrough the cracks of every HMO and health system he got into. I would help him track his illness and give him loving sipport at times he was low. I gave him contant encouragement to stay alive and seek the best health he could in the face of the growing strikes against him: He's over 40, single, HIV+, and has no health insurance. If he was married, had kids, he could get onto a liver transplant waiting list, but Bob does not meet the criteria. Such is the health care system in America. In late 2003, the doctors informed him that shortly after New Years 2004 he would probably die from liver failure. Wasn't that nice of them? He immediately sought me out, knowing full well that I would never answer 'the ultimate question.' I refuse to. It is now February 2005, and Bob is still alive. I haven't done a reading in over a year, and I am sure he feels I have abandoned him. I know he is still alive through people on the internet. He is down below 10% liver functioning. Would you answer the ultimate question? Would you want to live with yourself knowing that you used your abilities to discover the date of someone's demise? Will you be able to live with yourself if you happen to be correct? Pray for Bob.

similia	02 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: Would you answer the ultimate question? Would you want to live with yourself knowing that you used your abilities to discover the date of someone's demise? Will you be able to live with yourself if you happen to be correct? Pray for Bob. Dealing with people facing death is one of the most difficult aspects of my job. My first experience of discussing death was with a close friends relative I was treating while still studying, so this has been a difficult thing for me from the start. Would I ask a tarot deck to identify the date someone would die? No, but I don't like such specific questions, and don't consider any answer to be helpful. I prefer to ask for guidance dealing with what's happening in the here and now. If a reading for someone in the final stages of a terminal disease indicated they were likely to pass soon, do I have the right to keep that from them, or obscure the details? No I don't think so. I would suspect however the information to be of the "things may be difficult soon" rather than "January 1st" Would I be able to live myself if I was correct? Yes. Would I be able to live with myself if I "left-out" such a critical part of a reading? Absolutely not. People facing terminal illnesses are stuck with a medical system happy to tell you you have three months left and send you home 5 minutes later. This is an issue very difficult to discuss openly with loved one who only want to hear and say that things will be OK. Do I like discussing the prospect of death openly and in details? No. Will I? Yes. Will I offer what support I can, even if its just to listen? Yes. Will I have a cry after they leave? Every time.

similia	02 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: Similia ~ Would you tell the person if they had not asked you to tell them? Why would you feel an obligation to tell them? It is possible that your clinical training combined with your Tarot knowledge would place you in amuch better position than most of us to be able to predict the time of death. Certainly anyone with a knowledge of health is better placed to comment on a health related topic. Does this come through in a reading? I honesty don't know. I've never reflected on that. To be very honest I rarely combine my health work with tarot, but I'm not averse to doing so within certain parameters. For example I never ask the tarot to offer health advice on a specific client. I may ask "am I missing something" or "how can I better relate to this person", but the decisions are made by my training, and not a deck of cards. I re-iterate I would not predict a time of death. As stated by others the tarot is not so specific that it can really answer these questions. Why would I feel obligated to tell them? Several reasons. First when asking a question I always ask for information to be for the querents best interests, and interpret the information as such. Having said that I re-iterate I would never ask "when will I die". I would feel very uncomfortable leaving out sections of a reading, just because I'm uncomfortable discussing them with a client. Wherever the answers our readings give us come from, they clearly know more than me, and I fell I should trust that judgement. I don't think my offering a reading on death can change the outcome, but it may offer some guidance which may be in small ways helpful. If a person approached me with such a question I would explain I'm unable to be so specific, and ask Q "why do you want to know the date?" and hope this leads to a more suitable rephrase such as "what can I do to better prepare for my death" or "what things are important for me to resolve before I face death" or "what is the answer I really need". Predicting death for a healthy person is a rediculous idea, and asking for a specific date even for someone on deaths door is a waste of time, and of no benefit in my opinion. There is a very important difference between "you will die soon" and "you need to resolve this issue with your daughter with some urgency" (stressing that these words are decided by the format of the forum, and not how I would say things in person) If any indication of deterioration in health came out un-requested in a reading (terminal or not) I would refer for appropriate testing and treatment. If a person asked a question about their health, and the answer looks grim, I'd suggest REFER TO SOMEONE WHO CAN HELP THEM. The best we can offer is helpful advice, and for any health related question if a person is not having appropriate medical supervision, you should always recommend this. Perhaps the reverse question may offer some insight. If a querent asked how will my year be? and you tell them its going to be great, and fulfilling etc.. and then they die, would you then wish you'd not read for them?

similia	02 Feb 2005
I wanted to make more clear, my contributing to this forum is not because I necessarily would ask the same questions as posted, or in the same format. I spoke up because I saw several people who were asking for help receiving criticism rather than advice. I wonder are these questions from a client less offensive? Am I gay? Am I pregnant? Am I mentally ill? Am I addicted to porn? Am I dying? In all cases I don't think we can say a definate yes or no. We can offer insight on the problem, and refer to someone better qualified to help them.

similia	02 Feb 2005
To Moongold: I agree with everything you have said in your last post. Again I would like to stress I think written language is causing much confusion that wouldn't occur in the real world. I in no may meant to offend anyone who has contributed to this thread, as I agree with 100% of it. (despite appearances) Especially to Moongold and Tarotbear whose input I find so valuable I'm sorry if I'm coming across argumentative. That is not my intent. I'm unsure if your previous statement about people reacting angrily is directed at me. If so I'm not angry, and am truly sorry to have come across this way. I agree language such as "nutty as a fruit cake" is offensive and I don't condone it, but to anyone reading that please remember that how things come across in a forum, may be very different to the reality. As we do not know the true context of these questions, nor the answers we should refrain from coming across excessively judgemental. The criticism I observed is in the other threads being discussed. People were asking for help, and rather than being told in a friendly manner (as was done by both your posts) that tarot is not so specific as that, there were criticised for asking such questions. (Perhaps my bias is to see critisim as stronger than intended) I would never interpret a card as "they are gay or a porn addict etc." but such issues (and the cards that express the feelings that go with them) may come up in a reading. Would I ask a question designed to find such a thing out? No, I don't consider it morally appropriate. Do I expect that cards describing (although not naming) these situations to come out in a reading? Yes. What would I say to a querent? Whatever I felt was contructive within the limit of my abilities as a reader. As an example: I recently gave a reading to a schizophrenic. He didn't tell me the nature of the question, and I used a variation of the Celtic Cross. His goal position was the Sun, fear was Knight of Swords reversed. I intrepeted these along with other cards as an indicator of much confusion and distress, and a desire for clarity. He later explained to me the significance for him of these cards. In this case yes, the cards were relevent to mental disease and his question. I did not however offer any diagnoses, as it would be inappropiate to do so (from my moral perspective, not to mention legal). I gave the example: Am I XXXX? in the previous post as a way to demonstrate that perhaps these questions would be less offensive if taken out of the context of voyerism. (Because in that context I don't approve of them) I hope this is a bit clearer. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make myself more clear, and again I apologise for any poor wording on my part.

Kiama	02 Feb 2005
Caridwen: for a question such as that (e.g. is my husband looking at pornography?) I would be more inclined to reform the question into something entirely more helpful - e.g. why is my husband so distant (or something else that may have caused you to suspect he is looking at pornography), where can we improve our relationship (or more specifically, sex life), how he can give more to it, how you can give more to it, each person's flaws and needs, etc. This would not just give you a very difficult to interpret Yes/No answer, but would give you plenty of good advice about the relationship/sex life itself, so you know what to do if you discover he that the cause of the 'lacking' in sex life/relationship is really pornography. It's not that I'm against finding these things out. But I am definitely for communicating with your partner/s on a face-to-face basis and sitting down to reasonably discuss one's concerns, as well as Tarot readings that are more about self improvement and understanding of the situations around you than definite answers - which are such that they can be misjudged. For instance, as in the original pornography thread, somebody pointed out all the different reasons why one looks at pornography, and of course it's such a controversial issue in today's British society that you may misjudge what the cards are saying with a simple Yes/No question. Moving on from that... The 'Am I/is he/she/they gay? question is also one where I would not read for that question. I'd prefer people asked the person in question. After all, an issue such as one's sexuality is veeeery close to a person's heart. How do you know, as a reader, if the person asking to know if their friend is gay is doing so for good reasons? Do they want a clue as to the troubles a friend is facing? Or do they want to know so that they can cut that person out of their lives? Similia: why should we not criticize somebody's questions? Constructive critcism enables us to grow and learn. Is it not merely another form of advice, but instead of telling somebody they're wonderful and should not change anything, you tell somebody that you don't agree with them and tell them why. Anyway, I'm rambling, so I'll sign off... Kiama

VisionQuest	02 Feb 2005
Love and prayers for Bob :)

MeeWah	02 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: ...what we can say in the moment, when we have someone in front of us we can interract with - through body language, eye contact, psychic vibrations - is not what we can say to a stranger in cold print. And secondly, during those live readings, if a word, an image or an urge comes to you strongly - go with it. We read, we interpret, we listen to the voice of the Papesse... As Arnnaria says, we do no wrong if the intention is pure. I emphatically agree! The intent with which *any* information used or delivered significantly affect the worthiness of same & its reception. Getting shot as the messenger definitely not part of my life plans. How one speaks to another & posts in type print may be different. The parameters of the medium may affect the expression & therefore, its delivery. The quality or range of expression depends on the individual. The cyber medium what it is, it can fail to deliver the syntax accurately for a myriad of reasons--from the enthusiam of spontaneity to the more measured tone of thoughtfulness. Those occasions wherein I was asked: is so&so cheating so numerous I have lost count. Interestingly, how the results express via the cards not always the same even if the answer apparently "yes" & depends on the reading venue, whether in person, via phone or online. Some folks prefer the no-frills to bluntness. The times where I blurted out whatever (& somewhat to my horror) has been appreciated. Generally, however, that is not my style so that whence it occurs, it signals all the more reason to pay attention. From the personal experience, however, I can attest that the cyber medium fully capable of communicating "the vibes" or energetic pattern at any one time of the individual &/or a situation.

VGimlet	02 Feb 2005
A lot of interesting points here. My mom wanted me to read for her when she was terminally ill. I very gently avoided the issue. Looking back, maybe I could have given her something after all, but I don't feel bad about not reading for her. If someone were to ask me to read tarot to find out about someone else in their life (ie, is my loved one looking at porn, etc., etc.) I would be likely try to rephrase the question to somthng more helpful, as Kiama said. If it's something that's none of their business (like, is my boss getting a divorce) I would tell them I couldn't answer a question like that; someone elses personal business is not our concern at this time - now let's talk about you.

firemaiden	02 Feb 2005
I think the restrictions one might place on actual readings are one thing, and the constraints upon oneself when reading for oneself are quite another!! Yes, of course when reading for others, we need to be senstive to all kinds of things, and as moongold (and my surgeon) remind us: "first, do now harm... But I don't think any constraints at all can be applied to a self reading. After all, it is a form of self conversation. How are you going to say, "self, don't ask that, don't read that, don't think that -- no the mind is limitless. So too, in the context of reading and exploring the cards for one's self, I don't see why there should be any constraints on the kinds of issues we can discuss here...

tarotbear	02 Feb 2005
As I read through this thread I am still strongly asking the same question about 'what exactly do we need this knowledge for. I also (reading the posts in this thread) see that language gets in our way, particuarly because we only have the written word to communicate through. Nuances of voice and inflection are subjective; we think someone is being snotty or condescending to us when in fact they might not be. More the reason to think before we strike. My problem with many postings is the 'written in stone' nature in which they are written - example - "When I see the Page of Pentacles and the Two of Pentacles together it tells me he is gay." The sentence does NOT say "It gives me the impression ... I have an understanding that ... there is a possibility that ..." Perhaps the querent does not want to be 'outed' for personal reasons ... perhaps he is not gay at all and the cards are more pertainent to whatever his question is. I do not doubt that how we phrase our answers to a querent is most important - I try to stay away from exclusively heterosexual terminology - and gives us a 'comfort zone.' If the Querent wants you to know they are gay OR NOT - that is up to them to decide to reveal. Gays and lesbians are 'used' to having to change pronouns for many reasons, and one of them is safety, the other security. We should not be invading their privacy through tarot. I admire the courage for the poster to discuss her boyfriend's obsession with pornography. Yes, her relationship with him is affected by his behavior. However, she already knows about his addiction. Would not she be better off using the Tarot to ask how she can help him overcome this, or ask for insights into what she herslf can do? Both of them need to seek counsel - him for his addiction and she for help in coping with it. However, using the cards to get 'reports' or as some kind of psychic 'spy camera' is unhealthy for both of them. There is deep need for counseling - by a certified therapist - here. This is the reason I used that discussion to form this thread. There should be no 'third party' questions in Tarot; if a Querent asks you questions such as these, it is up to you to discuss the moral and ethical reason why you will not do this type of reading. It is one thing to ask 'My grandfather is in the hospital - is everything O.K. with him?' and quite another to say 'I'm not pregnant, but if I tell my boyfriend I am because I want him to live with me/marry me - how will he react?' There you are using the divination properties of tarot to be in cahoots with someone's deception? Morally and ethically wrong!

Dark Inquisitor	02 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: There should be no 'third party' questions in Tarot; If we are going to have tarot commandments, I would like to know where the stones are that they are written on , and what is the name of church we belong to. Also, who is the original person who chiseled the original tarot commandments onto the stone ? I have refused nosy questions on the part of querents that I felt would not be in their best interest, but I also suspect that most of the people here have asked all kinds of nosy third party questions and don't admit it.

Fudugazi	02 Feb 2005
Dark Inquisitor wrote: I have refused nosy questions on the part of querents that I felt would not be in their best interest, but I also suspect that most of the people here have asked all kinds of nosy third party questions and don't admit it. hehe - any time we get the question "how can I deal with my boyfriend, my boss, my mother" - although the question is about the querent also, it is about a third party. But is that surprising? - actually, it's about a relationship. And given our lives are made up exclusively of relationships (with ourselves, a lover, a sibling, a friend, an enemy, a parent, colleagues, employers, our neighbours, our fellow citizens, our co-forumites, people on the other side of the world whom our politicians interfere with or help, our imaginary friends or enemies, our spirit guides, G-d, the Goddess - have I fogotten anyone? the milkman?) - then it is entirely appropriate to read about them. The ethics question bears on how we approach the reading, in what spirit. Do you want to help? interfere? pass on your beliefs? are you going to enable or empower? Beyond that, we let the cards talk and we interpret them. C'est tout.

stella01904	02 Feb 2005
MM ~ As Arnnaria said so eloquently, 'way back on page 1 of this thread, there is nothing inherently wrong with a third-party reading if ones intentions are compassionate. I would also like to add that if someone has mixed themselves into my life, I have a right to know what is going on with them, insofar as it affects me and mine. On the other hand, you don't want to be Miss Cleo, chasing all the gossip and confirming every suspicion and insecurity...BB, Stella

Dark Inquisitor	02 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: I notice you posted just before me and do not want to detract from your comments by interrupting so to speak, I have no property rights, real or implied in this thread or any other, and you are certainly not an interruption! I really do wonder who was the first person to come up with the tarot ethics .

Fudugazi	02 Feb 2005
Dark Inquisitor wrote: I really do wonder who was the first person to come up with the tarot ethics . I've been wondering about this expression "tarot ethics". Isn't it the same ethics as go with any position of trust?

MeeWah	02 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: I've been wondering about this expression "tarot ethics". Isn't it the same ethics as go with any position of trust? Tarot or reading ethics not really separate from any personal ethics but part of the individual/reader. Information of the inadvertent can result in *any* reading, regardless of the subject. That this occurs at all can be related to the query either directly or indirectly. Maintaining an open mind & understanding are prerequisites towards not only the reading process, but towards discerning the possible correlations not otherwise detected to provide for the needs (but not necessarily the desires). Hence, a personal reading on a relationship can & usually will reveal information about not only the querent but the individuals involved. How that information is used & delivered to form a reading simultaneously of the intent & the judgement exercised by the reader.

Nevada	02 Feb 2005
I haven't read the entire thread yet (lots of food for thought here), but between tarotbear's question and TA's answer alone I can come to a semi-conclusion, that what's important is staying true to the intuition and not filtering it through our own morals or personal judgements. Now that's impossible to do perfectly, but if we're striving toward that goal we're less likely to venture into the wrong kinds of readings. The word "immoral" stood out in TA's example in her first post here. Yet one can readily tell she was avoiding judgement. In some cases I can see "immoral" being used from a judgmental perspective, but it can also be an inuition of the sitter's feelings about what they're doing that the reader picks up on. We have to be careful not to judge the sitter or other people the reading involves. But we will, to some degree. We have to respect privacy. Yet the sitter is inviting us into his/her life. There are conflicts in reading for others. We have to look at the conflicts head-on and use the best ethics we can to deal with them. The best method may be to stay true to the intuition, and tread carefully in our expression of it. Sorry, I keep editing this: I think the greatest danger in the examples tarotbear gave is in allowing the reading to become salacious or gossipy in nature. In my personal judgement, that is immoral reading. Also, not to try to be so detailed in what we say. Intuition is at best an inexact gift. An impression, a feeling, an image. Perhaps it draws on our own internal symbolism. I don't think we can or should give such details. But there are exceptions to every rule. Nevada

rainwolf	02 Feb 2005
I think it depends on people's intentions, but i think its a personal choice, so we have no say into what others 'should' do-just worry about waht you yourself 'should' do. If someone asks a questions you dont think should be answered, be honest and say just that to their face, they can find another reader.

caridwen	02 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: I admire the courage for the poster to discuss her boyfriend's obsession with pornography. Yes, her relationship with him is affected by his behavior. However, she already knows about his addiction. Would not she be better off using the Tarot to ask how she can help him overcome this, or ask for insights into what she herslf can do? Both of them need to seek counsel - him for his addiction and she for help in coping with it. However, using the cards to get 'reports' or as some kind of psychic 'spy camera' is unhealthy for both of them. There is deep need for counseling - by a certified therapist - here. This is the reason I used that discussion to form this thread. There should be no 'third party' questions in Tarot; if a Querent asks you questions such as these, it is up to you to discuss the moral and ethical reason why you will not do this type of reading. It is one thing to ask 'My grandfather is in the hospital - is everything O.K. with him?' and quite another to say 'I'm not pregnant, but if I tell my boyfriend I am because I want him to live with me/marry me - how will he react?' There you are using the divination properties of tarot to be in cahoots with someone's deception? Morally and ethically wrong! [snipped by moderator: please refrain from personal attack] I repeat for the final time - I did NOT know about the addiction and therefore asked the cards. How dare you tell me what I can or cannot read into my OWN readings and the nature of my OWN relationship! [snipped by moderator: please address issues with one member to pm] I have been studying Tarot and giving Tarot readings for a long time - [snipped] I know what I should and shouldn't do when reading - it's damn obvious. I don't do health readings, I don't state when people are going to die, I don't spy on my neighbours. I resent the insinuations as I'm sure do many here. [snipped by moderator: please refrain from personal attack]

rainwolf	03 Feb 2005
(((((caridwen))))) I agree that Tarot should be open to anything and upheld to only personal standards; I also think that it is more sincere that you are consulting the cards to understand the situation more throughly rather than jumping into it blind. Best wishes in solving you dilemma.

caridwen	03 Feb 2005
rainwolf wrote: (((((caridwen))))) I agree that Tarot should be open to anything and upheld to only personal standards; I also think that it is more sincere that you are consulting the cards to understand the situation more throughly rather than jumping into it blind. Best wishes in solving you dilemma. Caridwen strips of clothes and runs around naked howling at the moon! How great it is to be free of all bonds and restrictions! The situation is thankfully over rainwolf. But thank you for the hug it's appreciated. I wanted the information to go back over past spreads done at the time. And, in the name of the goddess - can we drop it now?;)

tarotbear	03 Feb 2005
Partial quote from tarotbear ' there should be no third party questions in tarot.' Dark Inquisitor wrote: If we are going to have tarot commandments, I would like to know where the stones are that they are written on , and what is the name of church we belong to. Also, who is the original person who chiseled the original tarot commandments onto the stone ? First of all, you are using only half the quote incorrectly to suit your purposes. It says ' there should be no third party questions in tarot;if a querent asks you questions such as these, it is up to you to discuss the moral and ethical reasons why you will not do such a reading.' It is not a commandment; it's a statement. It's my statement. Read the rest of the post where I discuss the lack of nuance in the written word. If a querent comes to you to ask questions about someone else to know their business, you should not be a party to it. That is an ethical practice. It's not written on a stone anywhere; it shouldn't have to be. However, if you dont agree, go right ahead and do as you please - it's no skin off my a** what you think.

similia	03 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: As I read through this thread I am still strongly asking the same question about 'what exactly do we need this knowledge for. This is a very pertinent question, and it seems the cause of many disagreements between people thinking almost the same thing. Why would I want to know if someone is gay etc.? I don't care if the querent is, or if a person who is being described in a reading is. Frankly I think the idea of attributing certain cards or combinations of them to any particular label is too narrow a definition to be useful. Sexuality could be described in a reading just as much by the Sun, or the 4Wands as the Devil etc. If someone wants to pay a tarot reader to ask about what happens in my bedroom then that's sad. (I'd rather they give me the $20 bucks and ask me flat out :D ) Do I want to out any one aginst their will? Of course not. However this doesn't make the discussion of these sorts of life situations as a potential factor in a reading invalid. Does the Devil & 2 coins always refer to pornography? No. Is this an interesting idea and worthy of our consideration? YES. Maybe one day in a reading it will be appropiate according to my standards for the cards to refer to pornography/sexuality/death/pregancy etc. How much better is it for me to think "I remember a discussion on these ideas that is valuable for this client" rather than to say "I don't think this is a idea worth discussing so lets not talk about it"

Fudugazi	03 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: First of all, you are using only half the quote incorrectly to suit your purposes. It says ' there should be no third party questions in tarot;if a querent asks you questions such as these, it is up to you to discuss the moral and ethical reasons why you will not do such a reading.'. I read it as a statement: but a wrong statement. All questions in tarot are "third party questions" because all concern relationships of some kind or another (see my previous post on that). It's not up to the tarot reader to judge the morals or the intent of the person who seeks us out. We are Papesses, not Justice. We can refuse a reading for our own reasons, but that doesn't mean the one asking is wrong - and if we do refuse, we have to confront ourselves with the question why - and not seek self-justification (e.g. he's dying anyway, it won't help him, etc.: what if it does help him? what if the refusal has more to do with your discomfort at death, and he could benefit from a reading that helps him to die well? I don't know if that's the case - but these are questions we must all ask ourselves in such difficult situations). Unless we know for sure this person has a criminal problem and is using us to bypass it (e.g someone gave the example of a stalker), then we approach any reading with an open a mind and with pure intentions. In fact - even if we know or suspect the person has criminal intent, it's not an absolute reason for refusing to read: for if he/she has, we'll see it in the cards, and we can ask for guidance from the cards - keeping in mind the importance of a just intent towards everyone, including third party potential or actual victims. As for the minefield of tricky questions and readings: I agree we don't indulge in gossip, but I'd add that we don't judge anyone - not the querent, not the third party. We read the cards - that's what a reader does. We help the querent birth their own responses from the cards, but we do not direct or use suggestivity. If we see something uncomfortable, we say in the best way we know how, with the intent of being honest and truthful, but not hurtful. A question - if you were to see in the cards the person is a criminal, or a danger to his family, what would you do?

Fudugazi	03 Feb 2005
similia wrote: Does the Devil & 2 coins always refer to pornography? No. Is this an interesting idea and worthy of our consideration? YES. Maybe one day in a reading it will be appropiate according to my standards for the cards to refer to pornography/sexuality/death/pregancy etc. How much better is it for me to think "I remember a discussion on these ideas that is valuable for this client" rather than to say "I don't think this is a idea worth discussing so lets not talk about it" Absolutely! That's how I've read this and other similar threads. This is a discussion forum to learn and exchange - including the tricky questions ;) It seems to me this question of ethics has more bearing on "how" than on "what" we read. We have a responsibility - but it is not one to censor ourselves blind.

Fudugazi	03 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: A question - if you were to see in the cards the person is a criminal, or a danger to his family, what would you do? Was that a question of tarotbear, your own question, or an open question?. A question for me, for tarotbear and for everyone who cares to answer :) It's tricky, I know. But that's what we are discussing here - tricky situations.

Fudugazi	03 Feb 2005
So it would - esoteric thriller-female tarot reader gets weird client -reads he's planning a crime- tries to stop him-he turns on her -she alerts police but no-one takes her seriously -eventually we have to have some turning of tables where she turns hunter, with the help of her tarot cards and his brother Joe whom she falls in love with -saves his family-he disappears but her tarot cards tell us he won't go far...The End :D

Rosanne	03 Feb 2005
I would at first opportunity give those darn indentikit cards back to the police and start using my tarot again.

Major Tom	03 Feb 2005
To paraphrase my friend Tarotbear, he asks, why do we need what amounts to personal information in order to provide a tarot reading? My friend Umbrae frequently asks, why do you read tarot? For me, put the two questions together - what is the purpose or the reason for reading tarot? The answers to these questions will provide the individual reader with their own ethical foundation. There are no right or wrong answers here - we must each develop our own ethics. For myself, I read tarot to get the information I need to produce the outcomes I want in my life. I read tarot for others so they may do the same - that is - get the information they need to produce the outcomes they desire in their lives. Most people truely desire the basics. Happiness for self and family, good health and long life, love, etc. Many will want recognition, wealth and fame. These are the types of things most people will want in their lives and a tarot reading can help them achieve these things. Still speaking strictly for myself, to use tarot reading for any other purpose is to turn it into a parlour trick - entertaining certainly - but ultimately useless. Then, my friend Helvitica asks, if you were to see in the cards the person is a criminal, or a danger to his family, what would you do? I have to admit this question throws me into a bit of a loop. First, I have to say I've read tarot for lots of people and have yet to encounter a dangerous criminal, but that's not to say I won't. I have to believe this type of person is going to ultimately want the same things that most people want, but having chosen a life of crime will be having difficulty achieving those aims. Obviously, I would refuse to answer questions on how best to commit a crime or harm another person, but I have to believe a tarot reading would provide information to a criminal or dangerous person that they could use to achieve happiness, health, love or any of those things that most people truely desire.

Fudugazi	03 Feb 2005
I suppose what I was really thinking of is not those people who are engaged in crime as a profession (!) but those people who slip into it because of violent tendencies, depression, desperation or whatever. The parent who might abuse a child, the father who kills his family in desperation, the employee in debt who goes dipping in the company funds, etc. This kind of thing might show up in cards. What do we do then?

Dark Inquisitor	03 Feb 2005
What about psychics contacted by police departments to find killers? They definitely have to spy . And what about companies that hire them to assess potential employees? And what about the church who basically says that tarot is spying on things we have no business knowing for ourselves or anyone else? I think we all have to make these choices , and it's not just a blanket statement that will apply at all times.

Nevada	03 Feb 2005
While we often examine the ethics of prominent business people and politicians at a distance, as well as the ethics of those closer to us, it's important to remember that ethics are individual and personal, and extremely complicated. In a typical business ethics course, hypothetical scenarios are discussed, and students ponder what their actions would or should be in those circumstances, knowing full well that all possible situations can't be foreseen and there's no "correct" global answer, but an individual one for each person and each situation. The point of such a course isn't to provide answers, but to get the students to think their decisions through with more awareness of the possible repercussions. In ethics, a + b doesn't always equal c. If you want that, you study algebra. ;) That's true in Tarot as elsewhere. While it's a good thing for each reader to have a set of standards he or she reads by, in real life things come up that push those standards, and sometimes we have to make exceptions--or simply refuse to read. It's not always because the question is unethical or immoral. Sometimes we're simply not qualified. For instance, what do you do if you suspect the sitter is schizophrenic? There are readings I would do for someone if I thought they were, and readings I wouldn't. The thing is, I don't know if someone is schizophrenic, unless they tell me, and even then they may not know themselves. I only have the person and their question, and my intuition, to go by. Intuition isn't 100% accurate, I don't care who you are. Any reader who tells clients that isn't, in my opinion, being honest. I'd never heard of the third party "rule" before I came to Aeclectic, and when I first did it puzzled me. When someone wants a reading, they usually want to know about their life, something about their life that matters to them, perhaps deeply, something they may express more flippantly than they truly feel. Well, we aren't psychologists, doctors, or lawyers (at least most of us aren't). We're Tarot readers. So there are naturally areas where, on an individual basis, we have to decide not to go. I personally think there are a lot of possible third person readings I would go ahead and provide. But I'd have some tests I put the question and situation through before I did so. Then I'd trust my intuition, my intellect, my gut feeling about the situation, the person, the need, and the possible repercussions. I'm a Libra who hates passing judgement on others or making sweeping generalizations, but we're all judgmental beings. Anyone who claims not to be isn't being honest with him or herself. There's an old quote someone once told me came from the Talmud: "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are." I'm sure there are as many ways of reading Tarot ethically for others as there are Tarot readers. Nevada

tarotbear	03 Feb 2005
Thre is no 'third party rule' in Aeclectic -- OR ANYWHERE! LOL! It is a statement within the text of a posting which someone has now taken to the nth degree, demanding to know where the stone it is chiseled in is located, etc. I repeat: IT IS A STATEMENT FOLKS! It is not a law, rule, part of the Wiccan rede, or written on the back of your driver's license. Reading it does not make it happen; it that were so, then all cars would stop at a stopsign or red light and there would be no accidents at intersections .. but people do run stopsigns and red lights many times without killing anyone. Here's another statement: The sky is blue; the grass is green. Well, its snowing right now in my part of the world, so the skies are yucky grey and the grass is dead. If I chose not to acceopt the statement, it does not invalidate it, nor does it mean that it has to be chiseled in stone somewhere. On another post somewhere someone stated how wonderful everyone here on Aeclectic is ... yeah, right - that's why I have several people on 'ignore.'

Nevada	03 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: Thre is no 'third party rule' in Aeclectic -- OR ANYWHERE! LOL! tarotbear, That's why I put it in quotes. I realize that, but it has at times been stated as if it were a rule. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not criticizing you or this thread. This is, in a sense, like the ethics course I described above. It's a valuable discussion. Nevada

Rosanne	03 Feb 2005
Hi all, I said in an earlier post on this thread, that I try hard not to read for a 'third Party' and heres why. I live in a small town and some years ago, there was a night prowler who was causing a lot of distress. A Querent came to me and asked"I think my next door neighbour is the prowler, could you read my cards for me?" I replied that "I don't think I can answer that sort of specific, I don't think Tarot does that, at least not for me, but I can perhaps read why you are feeling insecure and what you might do about it" I did the reading and we discussed lots of things including why He was suspicious, and the cards where accurate for him and possible actions to take. The next day the querent was down at the local pub and he told people it was'nt his neighbour as I had told him so, through the 'cards'. So then I had a run of people coming to ask the same question about other possible Suspects. It really got out of hand and downright dangerous and silly. It transpired that it was an 'out of towner' and not known well by anybody. So I learned to have my charter, and would tell Querents that I don't do 'Third party readings' I will not label a person not at the reading etc etc. Hence my semi serious quip about Identikit cards. Tarot is not that for me. Regards Rosanne

Nevada	03 Feb 2005
Roseanne, I know it was a troubling experience for you at the time, but what a great story! Thanks for sharing. :) You could write a movie script based on that kind of thing. Sometimes life is stranger than fiction. :D Nevada

Fudugazi	03 Feb 2005
Dark Inquisitor wrote: I think we all have to make these choices , and it's not just a blanket statement that will apply at all times. You're right, that's why I always try and think of it in terms of real-life situations. But even then, our choices are made according to our underlying principles.

Fudugazi	03 Feb 2005
Nevada wrote: Roseanne, I know it was a troubling experience for you at the time, but what a great story! Thanks for sharing. :) You could write a movie script based on that kind of thing. Sometimes life is stranger than fiction. :D I agree - I enjyoyed it too (I know it was undomfortable Rosanne - but it's good in the telling). In the film, the prowler would come to Rosanne for a reading. It could be one of those comedy/thrillers.

HudsonGray	03 Feb 2005
"What about psychics contacted by police departments to find killers? They definitely have to spy . And what about companies that hire them to assess potential employees? And what about the church who basically says that tarot is spying on things we have no business knowing for ourselves or anyone else? " I don't know any police department that would use one regularly (our local one used a psychic's dream last year which didn't pan out & the media made them a laughing stock), and it wouldn't hold up in court, regardless, if it came to a case in front of a judge and jury. Though finding killers is working for the greater good of society (preventin of harm to others and all that). I absolutely do not know of any business that would hire a tarot reader to vet their potential employees!!! I've had to take a lie detector test for one job, as prerequisite to being hired, which I hear is illegal now - though they can do it after I'm hired for security reasons. But one relying on a tarot reader for hiring? That's a liability suit waiting to happen. The church is a religious organization, their opinion of tarot may or may not be accurate, it depends on what they're telling their members. The act or degree of 'spying' is always a concern. Sometimes it's worth doing (such as 'do I have a chance at advancement in this job under this boss'), sometimes it's not ('did my sister steal my bank book'). Some things are better asked of a person directly instead of in a reading. And it's up to us to know if we're willing to go that far to do the reading using those particularly stated questions.

firemaiden	03 Feb 2005
Moderator Note: Dear Friends: I've hidden several posts from view. These are simply posts which either "discuss the discussion", or concern only two people, and would be better addressed in p.m. As stated in the forum rules: Quote: Avoid meta-discussion. Instead of talking about the thread or post itself while you're posting in it, stick to talking about the original topic.

HANDMAIDEN MI	03 Feb 2005
Hi everyone... ethics... hard. I was doing readings at a party, and they were llining up...and I was just using 3 cards. It was a whats going on with you? And it was a lot of fun until one man sat down and I pulled The 9 of swords, for past, The devil for present, and the 10 of swords future. It just jumped out of my head without thinking... "You are in a whole lot of trouble my friend and you had better watch your back". I was so shocked, and everyone else became silent... could have heard a pin drop. He left with an unhappy look and I was treated like I was an "idiot". REading are now OVER! It turned out he was a heroin dealer and the next week got attacked and stabbed near to death and was in the hospital. Scary stuff... he also was a "criminial" that had come straight into my hands to read. I do appreciate the conversations about ethics as Ihave had lots of those kinds of questions.... getting information, or getting the "goods" on someone... something the people always seem to want to know. Ms. Ae

firemaiden	03 Feb 2005
Oh wow, Handmaiden, what a story! You were certainly put on the spot, LOL.

augursWell	03 Feb 2005
A very interesting discussion, if not a bit heated. One thing that came to mind is this question of, to say it in a general way, "intuition is just there so whatever happens is okay and just let it out". I'm not quoting anyone in particular or refering to anyone specific, just paraphrasing. To me this is a mistake to think this way. Here's why. I don't read for others so my experience with all of this is limited but I feel that any knowledge, understanding, intuition that I personally have, from whatever source -- be it tarot, my training from college in a particular field, my skills in some sport or whatever -- whatever source of knowledge I have within myself I am always faced with the question of what do I do with that. If I physically see someone commit a crime I know that I will pick up the phone and call the police. Tarot reading is just another source of information. Everyone has the responsibility of deciding what to do and the results lie on their shoulders. I think that the original reservation raised on this forum was simply one of saying is this really important to ask such questions as A. B. C.? It simply goes to the question of what is Tarot's real value. Obviously this will raise some hackles and upset people but such a question is worth discussing. For example, think of the movie Liar, Liar. A comedy where the main character could say nothing but the "truth" for a certain length of time. Is that really the way to go through life?

Satori	04 Feb 2005
I hear Tarotbear asking why we should need to have certain information on someone. So that for the reader you maybe don't need to have any of it, although I know many readers who feel that there is always a message for them in any given reading for strangers. I have felt at times that I'm being "shown something" and whether or not I choose to share the something is a decision I make on the spot. As for someone sitting down and saying, "Is my wife cheating on me with another woman" Well now, that is an interesting question isn't it? And again, I think we need to have a code of ethics to deal with questions that we personally find are distasteful or ill advised. I have helped people reword their question many times, or I've said, "Is that what you really want to know?" And they talk. And then I ask, "What do you want to know?" And they talk. And then I ask, "Is that what you really want to know?" and if they are done talking I might say, "It sounds like you feel betrayed and you are hurting. Maybe we need to look at why you put your self in this situation and what learning opportunities you are being provided. Does that sound good to you?" And then the reading can be helpful to the querent and not just an Eye Spy game.

Rosanne	04 Feb 2005
Thats it Elf, just like that, talk and ask, talk and ask, and if you can redirect, so that the reading is about the querent and not others, it always seems to work out and then both I, as the reader and the querent get satisfaction.Thats why I read for others . Regards Rosanne

souljourney	05 Feb 2005
Elf, I really like what you have to say. It's about talking and asking and it seems rephrasing or coming up with a different question. I have a hard time with forming a question to begin with, let alone rephrase or come up with a different. Yes I think we need to do readings where it isn't a spy game and maybe be about how the querent can deal with a situation or what they are supposed to learn or how they can help. Not really good at any of this stuff yet, I've only been reading for a couple months..so I mainly read for myself, friends, and in the reading exchange here. Good thread, btw. SJ

The Tarot and the Ethics of Reading thread was originally posted on 01 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.