The Fool : what to make of him in a reading

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	19 Feb 2005
On elf's thread: The Lessons continue to flow, Umbrae writes, in a fascinating post, that he often sees the Fool as a very dark card: Umbrae wrote: I’ve often said the Fool is one of the darker cards in the deck. Folks steeped in RWS imagery don’t get it… He’s harmless, about to step off… But in the older decks he’s on the road, perhaps at a crossroads (that moment of balance – the moment of….the moment… That’s your clue to the whole reading. When the Trickster (Loki, Yehl, Coyote, Hermes, Krishna, Legba come to visit your home – it’s not going to necessarily be a pleasant sleepover. The Fool lives on the spirit road between the living and the dead, a messenger of the gods, and a guide for the dead; he is the boundary crosser and the boundary creator, clown, keeper of the gates, ferryman, lord of apples, lord of the other-world, voracious, cunning, sly, wise, and lord of those in-between-gray-places; he does not live near the hearth. If he were the innocent or the idiot as modern interpretive theory tells us, he would not have been pictured on the road. He is the boundary crosser and mover; he alters internal social distinctions. Le Mat is the spot between heaven and earth, the moment the sun reverses itself; he creates a distance only he can span. He sets others at odds, or places boundary markers in new an unusual places…what will happen when the fool, gets to the cliff? The destroyer and the creator; neither good nor evil yet both…He is Chaos… The Fool can be one of the darker cards in the deck...and was a key to the rest of the reading (especially as a jumper). (Why especially as a jumper? because the jumper is already showing he's the trixter doing cartwheels?) Diana also likes to remind us that the fool is unnumbered, where Death is un-named, and finds the Fool a kind of shadow of the Death card. I've often wondered what to make of the fool when he shows up in readings...

Diana	19 Feb 2005
firemaiden: Can you specify which Fool you are talking about? The numbered or the un-numbered one? The one who jumps off a cliff or the one who doesn't jump over a cliff? I suppose because you are posting this in Using Tarot Cards, that you are referring to the modern traditions? There are three main tarot traditions around today. Each one is different. The Fool in the RWS is radically different to Le Mat in the Marseilles, for example. As to the Fool being a dark card - well, that's odd. I thought all cards had many sides to them - dark, light and twilight; positive, negative and neutral; good, bad and ugly, etc.... If you don't specify which Fool you are talking about, we'll all be talking at cross-purposes at one point which will not be very helpful.

Keslynn	19 Feb 2005
I know I'm not the thread starter, but I'm interested to know the difference between the Fool in RWS and Le Mat in Marseilles. Does one tradition give a darker meaning to him? :) Kes

firemaiden	19 Feb 2005
Diana wrote: If you don't specify which Fool you are talking about, we'll all be talking at cross-purposes at one point which will not be very helpful. I'm talking about the fool of a thousand faces. :)

Diana	19 Feb 2005
Keslynn wrote: I know I'm not the thread starter, but I'm interested to know the difference between the Fool in RWS and Le Mat in Marseilles. Does one tradition give a darker meaning to him? :) Kes Perhaps someone else will speak of the darker or lighter meanings, but personally, I don't get this idea of darkness. The first difference is, as firemaiden pointed out, he is un-numbered in the Tarot of Marseilles. The other differences you can see if you compare the RWS one to the picture I provide in the following link: http://www.demnuarentos.com/Tarot/Cartes_de_12_a_22/S_Mat.jpg

Kara	19 Feb 2005
I loved that posting by Umbrae, I think it might have clicked... Looking at the fool as being a messenger for the Gods, and being constantly on the road, and always in between worlds, a gatekeeper and a trickster(to keep the gates), then these questions pop up for me: -whom does he serve? -whose messages is he relaying? -Does he know or care? -how many does he serve? -are there any conflicts of interest, if there are many? -where are his roots? -what are his beliefs(those of his Gods? Or does he have his own?) -if he is a servant, does he have a sense of personal responsibility for his actions? Assuming he answers all the above with: I don't know, and the last one with probably not, then if this shows up as a querant/querant's situation, it *could* indicate: -someone who is not 'grounded' in a sense of own identity or self,(servant, no own beliefs) -therefore is unable to acknowledge own interests, opinions, wants, needs, desires, ideas -having no own wants, etc..relays messages for 'others', and is blown around by the wind(hermes wings??)(not even a 'follower', but a 'messenger', a follower can think separately from the leader, can think with the leader, at times even for the leader. A messenger is just that, thinking or following isn't usually required, except following orders->instinct...) -open to whoever provides further sustenance or life so serves many 'leaders', but not one true one, the self -is a trickster-> unreliable, always changing faces, opinions and moods to smooth out conflicts within and without (keeper of the gates of internal information flow, having a trickster sitting there doesn't aid smooth communication..), or giving in to uncontrolled impulses(uncontrolled, because lack of a belief system?? therefore no 'code of conduct', or morals/ethics?) - never having focused on the self(no need to), has no sense of self-> so, doesn't realize implications of own actions(so he doesn't know or care) -with all of the above, it is hard to have a sense of personal responsibility for actions taken, or even a sense for own power... So if this card was a 'jumper', that *could* indicate, that the situation about to be looked at is a 'little' chaotic...because the querant, at the time, is Chaos. rereading this thread: woops, guess I missed the topic/question. Oh well. Next time:)

wandking	19 Feb 2005
Indeed The Fool is un-numbered in historic decks but keep in mind: The Fool card likely bore no number in the fifteenth century but morality plays, common during the period, feature a Fool character, called Naught, which shares the designation of zero with other characters portraying fools in literature of the Middle Ages. I like the dark interpretation of a card I've never read that way... Comparing the card to "Legba" even shows a grasp of Yoruba or Caribbean religions. I don't let my Fool become the Magician or Death, like the initial entry implies but still I find it interesting. I've spent a great deal of time studying card meanings and when I close my mind to unorthodox interpretations, I leave the path of The Fool, which leads to enlightenment and actually become a fool, in the literal sense.

firemaiden	19 Feb 2005
I think an important thing to remember, is that in the game of Tarot, the Fool trumps all the other cards, therefore he is the most powerful card.

wandking	19 Feb 2005
According to the rules for the game Mathers published, which may or may not be the true rules for Renaissance Trionfi, The Fool doesn't take all tricks.... Mathers writes: 0, The Foolish Man, is the lowest card in the pack in playing the hand; can take no card of any suit, and may be played to a card of any suit. For instance, if the adversary leads a King, and you have only the Queen of that suit remaining in your hand, but have also the 0, you can play this instead of the Queen, and thus save her from being taken. A King cut counts 5 points to whosoever cuts it. In each suit King is highest, then come Queen, Knight, Knave, Ten, Nine, etc., down to Ace, which is lowest, and can only take the 0. The Trumps reckon from 21, which is highest, to 1, which is lowest. You must follow suit if you can; if not, you may trump. Each trick should be kept separate for counting afterwards. Of course, the principal care of the player should be directed towards saving his own important cards, and taking those of the adversary. The player who takes a trick leads next. When all the hand is played out, the tricks on either side are counted as follows:— what the Fool does in this version of Trionfi is keep you from wasting a stronger trump in the early game.

firemaiden	20 Feb 2005
Yes, I've looked up some rules of the game, and found that you are right. The rules of the French game, allow the fool to be played as 'l'excuse" and get out of losing another card. However, there is another version of the game, according to this tarot games site, in which the role of the Fool has been changed. Quote: In Central Europe, the standard card values are still used, but the role of the fool has been changed. It is simply the highest trump (effectively the 22), ranking above the 21. These games in which the fool has its modern role began to appear in the eighteenth century. Michael Dummett classifies them as type III Tarot games. This is probably the source of the statement I found in Nichols "Jung and Tarot" which I'm reading... saying that the Fool is the most powerful trump. (This book is chock full of really glaring errors...)

wandking	20 Feb 2005
sorry to hear that, when I read the name Jung associated with Tarot it peaked my interest. I wish there Jung had written more on his use of the cards. Here's the version of The Fool from the book I'm writing on Tarot, which focuses on RWS cards. To determine card meanings, I use a consensus of sources. 0 – THE FOOL Like positive and negative numbers, the Tarot begins an infinite cycle with zero. The card that bears a zero is an essential link that puts cycles in motion. Like the number, The Fool is neither positive nor negative but offers both possibilities. The Fool ties together a series in the Major Arcana that mimics natural cycles. First steps appear insignificant but a divinely blessed step onto a never-ending path takes on spiritual implications. As every progression in the counting system utilizes zero, each journey starts with a single step. Natural law states, “A body in motion tends to stay in motion.” After starting this journey, The Fool remains in motion even if he turns back. Like a universal constant, he keeps moving. This card of dynamic beginnings sows a seed of transition, which flowers into infinite endings. In a spread, The Fool often refers to reaching the crossroads of choice in life. This card also shows you are considering a new path or taking a step toward a fresh approach. The Fool prances boldly along a path leading off a cliff, wearing golden boots of innocence and ignorance as he tosses logic to the wind. Many cultures fail to perceive the divinity of innocence or any value in ignorance. An unconventional approach changes the opinions of others from stumbling blocks into pebbles on his course. With little concern over what others think or say, The Fool imparts that happiness begins with a choice. Adopting illogical tactics seems foolish but history teaches that many who chose that path took a fast track to wisdom. Ignorance frees us to try things experienced people would not even attempt. "Go with the flow" is the decree often followed by society. For those who exist in such mundane realms, the philosophy of The Fool is like the precipice of a cliff. Thomas Gray writes, “Where ignorance is bliss, Tis folly to be wise.” Like all of us, The Fool chooses his own course. Requiring no outside approval, The Fool follows a unique path in life despite what others feel is best for him. He has faith in his choices. Is choosing this route foolish? Light and airy, this card swirls with the energy of Air. In astrology Air signs sparkle with intelligence. A white sun on Waite/ Smith versions of this card symbolizes the light of innocence that shines in children before the harshness of life causes them to build emotional barriers. The Fool suggests inexperience or childlike faith. Innocence imparts an openness that allows us to accept different perspectives. Ironically, the qualities that this card exemplifies glow brightest in children, as adults grow only to endorse the traits. Youth shines with honesty and openness. Nurturing the ideals allows age to mellow them into wisdom instead of tarnishing their luster. The Fool represents a step toward coming of age for all ages. The artist of this card spent formative years in Jamaica and delighted in telling the folklore of Yoruba descendants. Colors on this card honor Orunla, a deity presiding over spiritual initiation into adulthood in some Yoruba based Caribbean belief systems. In a reading, the card can represent a fresh beginning. With The Fool, definitive selection offers a road to completion. Each individual experience in life opens optional routes. Your path may be a high road of good choices or the low road of poor ones. Whichever road you choose there will be alternate crossroads along the route. Life is not only about making selections that offer momentary pleasure: It is about taking responsibility for bad choices and learning from mistakes, since that is how we grow. If you receive this card, it is not a time to weigh consequences or seek opinions. After your trip begins, no one knows where the path leads. This card suggests never allowing others to control your choices. Trust in innate judgment and overcome fears of change. In an image implying risk, The Fool walks toward a cliff in the picture. Potential failure haunts any new experience. A possibility of failure makes us resistant to dynamic change. Do not linger too long if you teeter on the edge of choice. Nietzsche said, “If you gaze long into an abyss the abyss will gaze back into you.” The Fool feels no fear as he prances toward the chasm of risk. Why should you? We learn to walk with a single step. Through changes, we will grow. This card suggests leaping forth into an abyss of unrestrained potential: With faith, you will learn to soar! Although Waite numbers the card as zero in his deck, he writes this: The Fool. “21--which, however, in most of the arrangements is the cipher card, number nothing--The Fool, Mate, or Unwise Man. Court de Gebelin places it at the head of the whole series as the zero or negative which is presupposed by numeration, and as this is a simpler so also it is a better arrangement. It has been abandoned because in later times, the cards have been attributed to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and there has been apparently some difficulty in allocating the zero symbol satisfactorily in a sequence of letters all of which signify numbers. In the present reference of the card to the letter Shin, which corresponds to 200, the difficulty or the unreason remains. The truth is that the real arrangement of the cards has never transpired. Crediting Court de Geblin with attributing a zero to The Fool makes one wonder where the Court saw a card numbered in that manner. His multi-volume writings focus on a universal language, not Tarot. Court de Geblin, being French, was exposed to a Marseille style deck and had little interest in renumbering the cards. Did any Marseille decks of that time feature a Fool card which bore the number zero? Also, card iconography led de Geblin to associate the cards with ancient Egypt... What Marseille symbolism led de Gebiln to believe the cards arose in Egypt? I find no distinctly Egyptian symbolism in my Convers Deck. What I did find there is a less than imposing image of the Fool, with a small dog, "some call it a tiger" ripping his pants off, which harkens back to the Begger image in the Mantegna.

firemaiden	20 Feb 2005
Wandking wrote: The Fool suggests inexperience or childlike faith. Innocence imparts an openness that allows us to accept different perspectives. Ironically, the qualities that this card exemplifies glow brightest in children, as adults grow only to endorse the traits. Youth shines with honesty and openness. Nurturing the ideals allows age to mellow them into wisdom instead of tarnishing their luster. The Fool represents a step toward coming of age for all ages. The Fool as zero, as new beginnings, as being on the edge of the cliff, and the fool as inexperience or child-like faith, is certainly the standard way of viewing the Rider-Waite Fool, and yours is one of the most thoughtful essays I have read on the RWS fool. Of course, it will clash importantly with the Marseille Fool, who has no cliff, no number zero, and no aspect of innocence. However, I don't believe, as Diana does, that we must necessarily talk at cross purposes if we don't commit to either discussing exclusively, the Marseille "Le mat" or RWS's innocent young fellow on a cliff. After all, the Rider Waite did not spring fully formed from the head of Zeus... . That dandy on the cliff with his pretty little dog in my mind could be another guise of le Mat on his crossroads. Call it a disguise maybe... don't be fooled. What is innocence? Is it necessarily angelic? It strikes me that we will find more in common if we look beyond the white-washed roses and lilies vision of child-like innocence, as depicted on the pretty RWS card, to contemplate the "innocence" of Pinocchio. Okay, who here saw Roberto Benigni's live-action film of Pinocchio? not that Disney thing, no a re-enactment of the original Italian Collodi story -- that's the Pinocchio I mean - before he is carved, he is only a block of wood, hurtling on its own down the street - turning over all the carts in the market place... raining chaos everywhere he goes... He is full of love, he always means well...Benigni gave him the wisdom of a two year old, and the energy of a teenager. !! I won't forget the "innocence" of that two year old in France who pulled a huge pot of used (cold) frying oil off the shelf onto himself and forever ruining my white mohair sweater... And what about my little Jack Russel terrier ... one minute we were watching PBS nature on TV, and the camera was on my boyfriend's stomach: we were waiting to photograph the doggie standing on his hind legs again, pawing the screen, trying to get the bear. The next minute, my boyfriend was half asleep and the dog-- and the camera-- were nowhere to be seen. I finally found him at the back of my closet, underneath some clothes, gnawing happily on my $200 Olympus camera. (No, the warranty did not cover puncture holes from teeth) (Innocent as a Jack Russell Terror...now that's mischief for you.)

wandking	20 Feb 2005
I'm greatly complimented by your posting Firemaiden. Not only the generous statement that it is "one of the most thoughtful essays I have read on the RWS fool" but also the fact that it led an obviously advanced student of Tarot to delve past the veneer western society places on the term "innocence." Indeed, Waite/ Smith cards did not spring "fully formed from the head of Zeus." In fact, much of their symbolism derives from Sola Busca, Wirth, Marseille and other older decks. You point out some very significant differences in the cards, which led me to uncover a distinct difference in facial expressions. Le Mat is not a happy pilgrim and certainly could embrace many of the darker aspects of the meanings put forth in the initial posting but still the image lacks the potency of Loki, Yehl, Coyote, Hermes, Krishna or Ligba.

seapearls	23 Feb 2005
One word comes to me on the Fool, niave. And now I just noticed looking close at my Gilded decks Fool...he looks just like pres Bush. Perfect ...lol I'll see Bush every time I turn over this card now.

MercyMe	24 Feb 2005
Well, seapearls, I can't think of a better card to represent our fearless leader here in the U.S. :laugh: ~Mercy

wandking	25 Feb 2005
I can! What about the Devil, as Bush claims nothing is his fault?

jmd	26 Feb 2005
What a beautiful thread to read... Along with that most wonderful post by wandking (but note the typographical error: Shin has a value of 300, not 200), the description of the Fool as bearing 'innocence and ignorance' may as easily be applied to the Marseille rendition as to many other decks. How one applies and understands this innocence and ignorance may, however, be quite different. For example, the innocence and ignorance of a Buddha (or someone completing their cycle of incarnation) is quite different to that of somebody beginning their journey of incarnations, perhaps totally overtaken by delusional thoughts. Likewise, a Fool perhaps called 'nothing' or 'without worth' does not imply that it precedes the sequence, but rather stands, in many ways, outside of it. Nevertheless, it is certainly without doubt that in some non-Tarot decks, such as the Mantegna (which have likely connections to Tarot - even if only by drawing on similar sources), the Fool, or Matto, depicts the lowest station of humanity and precedes other higher-stationed cards. In our case, however, we are reflecting perhaps not an ordering of social status, and questions about the Fool's sequential location in Tarot may have other determining factors. When I first read firemaiden's opening post yesterday, the image that came to mind is neither the Marseille nor the WCS or CH-'Thoth', but rather the Wirth, whose representation of the Fool certainly has a grotesque element in its depiction, and one could easily see how the unfortunate has suffered at what the fates brought his way. With the comments about the Fool being as a messenger of the Gods, there is certainly an aspect in some depictions (such as in the WCS) that seems to suggest that his being lost to the greater Light may make of him a speaker of the spiritual beings - yet he appears, at least to my eyes, generally neither angelic nor prophetic. If he does have a burning coal of prophesy upon his tongue at times, one even wonders as to how aware he may be to its very message. Rather, his sense is one that appears not so much of sight or sound, but of movement, of willful engagement towards a destination the path itself will determine. And here, of course, dark spaces and dangers may indeed be encountered!

The The Fool : what to make of him in a reading thread was originally posted on 19 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.