What is the relationship between the Six of Pentacles and the XV-the Devil?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	06 Feb 2005
I just laid out thre cards. No question, no positions nothing. I just laid them out. Mermaid deck. King of Swords, XV rx and 6 of p rx. Then I noticed for the first time, the relationship between the devil and the six of pentacles. Two people, related in some way to a third who stands in the center. I looked at the RWS cards: the people in the Devil are bound by chains, I notice in the Six of Pentacles, the dropping coins almost form a chain. Both the Devil, and the Merchant in the Six of Pentacles have one hand up, one hand down (The Merchant has the giving hand down, obviously, and the other hand holding up the scales, the Devil has the free hand up, his torch holding hand down..) I wonder what it could potentially mean, when these cards are next to eachother, and when they are reversed... I also notice the king of swords ressemblance in stature and poise to the Devil. In the mermaid deck he has a trident. Also making me think of the devil. I notice that when the Devil is reversed, his upside down torch is now upright. Perhaps he is in his guise as light bringer, rather than darkness-bringer, if he is upside down... I wonder... I could go on and on, this combination of cards is not willing to shut up. What do you see?

huredriel	06 Feb 2005
Well as far as I'm aware at the moment (still on my massive learning curve :) ), the Devil is the shadow card for the Lovers, being number 6 this could relate to the 6 pentacles. Just a thought x Huredriel

Fudugazi	06 Feb 2005
I don't know the Mermaid, so I could be talking out of my ar&e here - but to me, when the Devil is upside-down, that's when he is dangerous. You don't see him. You can't take him in and learn from his strong instinctual , sexual, creative taboo-breaking nature. He's blocking you out. Just as 6 of pentacles reversed is blocking the flow of energy and ressources between the people when it is reversed. Ressources and libido, creativity and anger have to flow or they become poison. I'd say this is a warning against repression.

Red Kite	06 Feb 2005
Interesting observation. I have the Housewives Tarot in which the six of Pentacles shows a child in a devil's costume, complete with horns. Two figures in the background are dressed in sheets to look like ghosts. The child has his/her hands on the edge of a plate, and is choosing from a selection of cakes and biscuits. The lwb says the keywords for this card are generosity, luck, sharing. "The six of Pentacles is about generosity in times of both prosperity and hardship. If you're enjoying the sweet taste of success, why not share that sugary bounty with others? You never know whether Lady Luck will trick or treat you, so always offer up the best you can.............." How does this fit in with your six of Pentacles?

Fulgour	06 Feb 2005
firemaiden wrote: I could go on and on, this combination of cards is not willing to shut up. What do you see? 6=15 (1+5) earthy Earth? If you use the Golden Dawn attributions, XV The Devil is Capricorn, and the VI Pentacles, the Moon in Taurus. The Moon would be in detriment in Capricorn, but not "Fall" ~opposite the exaltation of the Moon in Taurus...

firemaiden	06 Feb 2005
Very interesting, thank you, all of you. Oh yeah, the lovers as shadow card with number six - that sort of fits. I'm afraid I don't understand the astrology stuff, Fulgour. sorry :(

Simone	07 Feb 2005
I have recently given away my RWS deck, so I cannot check it out any more, but if I remember the card right, the rich person on this card gives out money? Which kind of reminds me of a certain kind of charity - where the receiver is kept dependant of the giver because hereceives without being shown how to help himself. Which reminds me of the Devil - a card I often enough read as dependance, addiction, as opposed to freedom of will and choice... This would be my connection between the two. I have never thought of it before, not reading the RWS much or even at all, but the way you described the cards this makes sense to me ;) Love Simone

Fulgour	07 Feb 2005
firemaiden wrote: I'm afraid I don't understand the astrology stuff, Fulgour. I know FM, but I love to make you smile! :)

firemaiden	07 Feb 2005
Red Kite wrote: Interesting observation. I have the Housewives Tarot in which the six of Pentacles shows a child in a devil's costume, complete with horns. Two figures in the background are dressed in sheets to look like ghosts. The child has his/her hands on the edge of a plate, and is choosing from a selection of cakes and biscuits. The lwb says the keywords for this card are generosity, luck, sharing. "The six of Pentacles is about generosity in times of both prosperity and hardship. If you're enjoying the sweet taste of success, why not share that sugary bounty with others? You never know whether Lady Luck will trick or treat you, so always offer up the best you can.............." How does this fit in with your six of Pentacles? Wow! that's interesting, Red Kite! It fits in somehow! Perhaps the Devil is sugar, MUHAHA.

firemaiden	07 Feb 2005
Simone wrote: Which kind of reminds me of a certain kind of charity - where the receiver is kept dependant of the giver because hereceives without being shown how to help himself. Which reminds me of the Devil - a card I often enough read as dependance, addiction, as opposed to freedom of will and choice... Yes, certainly those two cards together speak of dependence on charity, don't they.

Moongold	07 Feb 2005
Firemaiden, Huredriel is correct whe she remarks that 6's are in the Constellation of Lovers according to the Arriens-Greer model. The Tarot Constellations arebased on root numbers. I don't understand enough about the Qabbalah to speak with authority but the 6's are in Tipheret, the sphere of Beauty. The Devil is on the 26th path of the Tree of Life from Tipheret to Hod (glory). Can't tell you what that really means however. It may not mean anything because we can choose what paths to follow. The only other connection I can see is the power issue that I think Simone or someone else may have mentioned already. There is perhaps another dimension to this. The man and woman in the Devil card are chained. They are slaves to something - their own desires or to the Devil. In 6 Pentacle the mendicant two are slaves to the male's compassion or contempt. They are kneeling whilst the man dribbles money into their hands. The Devil also wears a reversed Pentacle on his head. Maybe 6 Pentacles is the reverse of the inherent spirit of the pentacle, a benevolent magickal symbol.

firemaiden	07 Feb 2005
Yes, very interesting, Moongold. And that dribbling money looks rather like a chain...

Fudugazi	07 Feb 2005
But the 6 of pentacles can also speak of the flow of ressources. It's only when it's abused, when the proper energy is blocked or over-strained, when there is no harmony between the different participants in the flow, that this becomes dependency or abuse of power, surely? I would see that indicated by a 6 of pents rx. I will give you a concrete example: in the recent tsunami, some countries (which will remain unnamed - you know who you are })) - gave rice to SRI LANKA, which is a large rice-producing country that had just had a bumper crop. That allowed those donating countries to buy up and dump their surplus. It's having a perverse effect on the local rice market in Sri Lanka - almost collapsing it, when they desperately need reconstruction, at the same time as creating dependency on free food.... This for me is a typical 6 of Pentacles reversed situation. Also a Devil reversed, as it is masquerading as compassion.

tmgrl2	07 Feb 2005
I think of the 6 Pents (and I looked at the Mermaid Tarot for both) as being devoid of anger, jealousy, expectations... So we see the two figures (lovely colors! ) with the third descending....giving and receiving freely...("no strings er..chains....attached). So the introduction of a third person, to me makes me think of the "gift" itself, or of a third person entering into a duality...being able to give to another without expectation and being able to accept from another freely. With the Devil, we have the chains...(what can you do for me?, jealously, hidden expectations or rewards) The Mermaid XV is also a very "dark" card in color as opposed to beautiful orange/yellows of the 6 Pents. Also, the Devil...has three figures, but one of them is The Devil, not what I would call a "trinity" so our darker, needier, greedier side is the "third" figure. In the Six Pents, I wonder if introducing the beautiful third figure was to imply that the "third" figure is more "holy" or "pure" in spirit? Reversed? Don't have a clue. They're in water, so if you reverse them, wouldn't they all just float upright again?? (heh,heh,heh)

Umbrae	07 Feb 2005
Well, first let’s look at the Devil; to quote Tyler Derdan [‘fight club’], “You are not your Khakis.” The Devil reminds us that we are not our jobs. we are not our addictions. We are not ‘what you do in private’. However, believing that we are…that IS The Devil. The Devil is (for me), also signifies blind obedience to a concept without questioning it. But there is also the The DarkSide. Perhaps you may want to journey into the darkness of yourself in order to release the captive inside you, or discover the beast that hides. The Six of Pentalcles can also be about divine gifts. See the ‘merchant’ doing the giving? He carries scales – there is an element of truth, justice – correct information or intent. This card also indicates not simply the knowledge gained (from Tarot or any other divine study), but what we gain from the study itself. It is about putting ourselves in a position to receive. Steps.

Simone	07 Feb 2005
Umbrae wrote: The Six of Pentalcles can also be about divine gifts. See the ‘merchant’ doing the giving? He carries scales – there is an element of truth, justice – correct information or intent. I have always seen those scales as a way of measuring how much is given - in the sense of calculating it, shrewdly and not without hind-thoughts... Like: I give you - but not freely, I will calculate my returns... Hmm, just a thought ;) Love Simone

firemaiden	07 Feb 2005
Well, I it makes sense to see the scale as a symbol of just balance. Better not to give more than a person is ready to receive, it can overwhelm. Witness, those people who go bizerk after they win the lottery... I think it suggests receiving the right gift (or information) at the right time.

augursWell	07 Feb 2005
I had not previously noticed this similarity between the Devil and 6Coins. Good spot if you ask me. :) If you take this throw left to right it seems to be about the need to control something powerful. The King of Swords is one who has, in a sense, subjugated his emotions and passions for the sake of intellect and clarity, and he is an expert at this sometimes to the detriment of feelings. The Devil is about our inner drives and passions which take control of us such that we are like puppets on string. I don't read reversals but in this case you might say that this is blocked in some way. The 6 of coins is about having a resource which you share with others. 6 in Kaballah is a central balancing number which it is why it is called "Beauty". So in the context of the Coins suit it is material balance between the haves and have nots. To address your observations on the similar visual patterns I think they make perfect sense. Both the giver and the receiver in the 6 coins are also in a sense puppets on string, in this case the controlling element being money or material things. Not sure what you were thinking or what situation you were looking at when you made this throw but hopefully that will give you some ideas.

firemaiden	07 Feb 2005
Umbrae, I like your way of seeing these cards. I am noticing, over time as Umbrae shares more of his personal views on each card, that he consistently finds the viewing angle which is most productive of personal growth; his definitions never tell a story of victimhood (like: "if you don't watch out this demon is going to eat your brain"), but a rather a story of opportunity, e.g.: an opportunity to journey inside to find and release the captive inner beast...

Fudugazi	08 Feb 2005
Umbrae wrote: But there is also the The DarkSide. Perhaps you may want to journey into the darkness of yourself in order to release the captive inside you, or discover the beast that hides. To me the Devil is not darkness: he is light - Lucifer. He is the one that allows us to break our taboos, to break through creatively and sexually and to rebel against authority. He's a necessary passage in the journey of life if we are not to live lives of dull complacency and resignation. He gives us tremendous highs when we do discover him - when we follow that light that shines in the dark: it is those highs that can become addictive. So the Devil can liberate , but if we become too fond of his effect on our lives, he captures and destroys us. Those two sides of the Devil - which are his seductive danger - are often confused, and therefore people want to avoid him because they fear (rightly) his effect. But he is not alone!! If we can integrate other lessons in life (e.g. Temperance, Strength or the Lovers) then we can ride on the devil's back towards liberation, we can receive that immense energy and light... In the six of pentacles, we see the two poles of the flow of ressources - which are a form of material energy. We ourselves can be at the receiving end or at the giving end, and will probably be at one or the other many times in our lives. I think the fairness aspect is important: it means making sure the energy, the ressources, are not lost; and the correct ressources are given. I feel strongly about this, as I work in aid: if you give wrongly you create a dependency culture. In a sense the two receivers are in relation to the giver, as we are in relation to the Devil. The giver can free them from immediate want and allow them to pick up the threads of their lives again; or he can make them dependent. It takes two to make a dependency, however. If the one who receives refuses to give up his power over his own mind, and does not start expecting constant gifts, then he will not lose power. It is the same with the Devil; if we receive that powerful light of liberation in our lives, but refuse to give up our personal power to its darkness, then we will not become slaves. I've seen this illustrated in refugee camps. Once past the moment of arrival and a generally short transition period, once the need for tents, water and basic food have been met, the first things that most refugees in my experience ask for is: school materials and materials to build a school and a place of worship; tools so they can start working the land if there is any and grow their own food, or start small trades. They know that they do not want to lose their power over themselves, all the more as they were already forced out of their own homes. The response by some givers to this assertion of power by a receiver can be very sad. In my country, people who are requesting asylum are not allowed to work, even if they want to. Those who do, do so illegally. That, of course, creates a huge dependency unless the asylum-seeker is strong enough to assert his/her own power and risk illegality to keep it.

Moongold	08 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: The response by some givers to this assertion of power by a receiver can be very sad. In my country, people who are requesting asylum are not allowed to work, even if they want to. Those who do, do so illegally. That, of course, creates a huge dependency unless the asylum-seeker is strong enough to assert his/her own power and risk illegality to keep it. You are so right with this. And people can grow to hate the person who by so giving asserts their own power. People can be humilated by those who give relief but don't allow communities to take back their own power. This kind of giving is perhaps motivated by the Devil. In fact firemaiden's combination of cards is an interesting analysis of such giving. The King of Swords is the world manifestation of countries/banks which give like this. XV Devil is the motivation and VI Pentacles is the experience of the receiver. The Tarot as political analyst.

tmgrl2	08 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: To me the Devil is not darkness..... He gives us tremendous highs when we do discover him - when we follow that light that shines in the dark: it is those highs that can become addictive. So the Devil can liberate Could not this "light" or extreme be considered darkness by some, darkness under the guise of "good," darkness under the guise of denial? In finding balance, perhaps then, have we achieved the light and thrown off the chains of "addiction" to anything? terri

Fudugazi	08 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: The Tarot as political analyst. I find the tarot a very good political analyst ;) But I don't agree with you on such a giver being "motivated by the Devil" - or at least not as stated: I think it's a great deal more subtle than that (well, isn't the Devil called the Subtle One, among other names? }) ) - as my post makes clear I view the Devil as a liberator, unless we give up our power to him. That's when the people in the 6 of Pentacles and in the Devil card are in danger. If you don't give up your power to him, then meeting the Devil is not only a force for freedom and dissent, but also a necessary milestone in life...The Devil wants you to be free - he wants you to stand up to authority, to follow your creative and sexual flow, to laugh and to live in passion. But freedom is won, not given: that's why he opposes and tries to bind us, to teach us to assert ourselves, to claim our power, against him (I think this is called reverse psychology - it works wonders with contrary people like me ;) ) So maybe the giver who wants to remove power from the receivers (which is a distortion of the 6 of Pentacles flow of ressources, in my view) has himself given up his power to the Devil - he was not strong enough to meet the Devil and be liberated by him: he doesn't want to be free, so he made himself a slave, and now wants those he "benefits" to be slaves as well. A vicious circle.

Fudugazi	08 Feb 2005
tmgrl2 wrote: Could not this "light" or extreme be considered darkness by some, darkness under the guise of "good," darkness under the guise of denial? In finding balance, perhaps then, have we achieved the light and thrown off the chains of "addiction" to anything? Hi Terri, just edited my post as you were posting - do my edits answer a bit? We only deny, we only risk addiction, when we give up our power. When we assert ousleves against his dangerous side, then the Devil helps us face up to all authority that would keep us in chains, and to discover the wild creative and sexual person that we are. Is is balance, or the flow of energy we need here? Although balance helps - meeting the Devil with Temperance as a companion must help assert that power. with keepng our power. Come to think of it, Temperance stands for both balance and flow of energy.... Or have I misunderstood your sentence???

ros	08 Feb 2005
The Devil has right hand raised 6 of Pentacles has left had raised. Right hand gives & left hand receives. Left hand on The Devil has the torch, right hand on the 6 of Pentacles shares the wealth. Both the other hands are in the air in both cards. What have we received of our darkness, to understand and then share the best of the lesson with others? Just some input????

Moongold	08 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: I find the tarot a very good political analyst ;) But I don't agree with you on such a giver being "motivated by the Devil" - or at least not as stated: I think it's a great deal more subtle than that (well, isn't the Devil called the Subtle One, among other names? }) ) - as my post makes clear I view the Devil as a liberator, unless we give up our power to him . That's when the people in the 6 of Pentacles and in the Devil card are in danger. If you don't give up your power to him, then meeting the Devil is not only a force for freedom and dissent, but also a necessary milestone in life...The Devil wants you to be free - he wants you to stand up to authority, to follow your creative and sexual flow, to laugh and to live in passion. But freedom is won, not given: that's why he opposes and tries to bind us, to teach us to assert ourselves, to claim our power, against him (I think this is called reverse psychology - it works wonders with contrary people like me ;) ) I think the Devil has many forms. The definition I like the most is that which distances us from the growth of the spirit. That is not inconsistent with my view in the earlier post. Governments and communities can do this as much as individuals. I was a little nervous of becoming too political.

Fudugazi	08 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: I think the Devil has many forms. The definition I like the most is that which distances us from the growth of the spirit. That is not inconsistent with my view in the earlier post. Governments and communities can do this as much as individuals. I was a little nervous of becoming too political. I see what you mean. But I think, rather, that he helps our spirit grow, if we are strong enough to face him. The process of facing him help us grow and liberate ourselves. And I think that is what he wants, with his torch, showing us the way, but tripping us up a the same time, just to teach us this spiritual strength. The 6 of Pentacles and the Devil are political cards, since they deal with power and liberation...We can talk without specifics. Or about the Roman Empire, or the Revolutions of 1848. These political energies are a constant in life!! Edited to add: we all have our own experience of the Devil. What we must avoid, however, is to be afraid of him. Whether he is truly the enemy, or a friends who disguises himsef as a enemy to test us and help us to liberation, we must not let fear of our won freedom - and therefore of the Devil - rule us.

Umbrae	08 Feb 2005
I find it amusing... The Six of Pentacles is a difficult card. I drew it last night during my evening meditation… I find it amusing that for some, it is a ‘bad charity’ card. It’s a merchant, with a scale! Gasp… And we move away from the meaning of the card. Motives begin to creep in… Some people see giving as manipulative. Well let’s dig deeper. A six is the Hexagram. The union of two threes. There are six directions in and of space. It represents harmony, perfection of parts, health, balance, nurturing, caring, and justice. Six is the number of Teaching. Six represents a transition from the past to the future. Sixes also relate to responsibilities to others, and duty to home and family. It is often seen as the number of community. Nothing Machiavellian here. Tephareth…Beauty, the heart – centeredness… The place of the wounded healer. Nothing Machiavellian here either. Kinda like some folks always see the Devil as Addiction. Have you ever been an addict? Play the game with the steel mosquito? Ever do a line as long as your arm? Ever 'come' to and wonder what all the fuss was about and why did they keep those lights so bright and keep them outta your eyes for krists sake? And your knowlege comes from what or where...? Then how do you know? Or are we repeating some mantra learned from a LWB? Let’s step back a moment. Rudyard Kipling begins “The Man Who Would Be King” with the line, “Brother to a Prince and fellow to a beggar if he be found worthy.” Perhaps the merchant does not hand out money blindly. Perhaps he was once a beggar – and assures that he hands out only to those who are there by no fault of their own…Perhaps he is the wounded healer. The one who has dealt with an addiction, and can, and is able help others, who are willing to help themselves. We get hung up with the Pentacles/Money/greed. We fail to see that the suit is all about that which is necessary for us to support that which houses our spirit – to feed our bodies, and support the temple therein; we work (‘Will work for food’). There is a spiritual side to work/money as long as we have, and retain balance. Waite, tells us “A person in the guise of a merchant weighs money in a pair of scales and distributes it to the needy and distressed. It is a testimony to his own success in life as well as to his goodness of heart.” Nothing about “wrong giving”, nothing about motives and Machiavellian attitudes. In fact quite the opposite. The words “Testimony to his success…” That give us the clue that he may have once walked in the shoes of a beggar… Take another look at the Devil. Look at the two chained up. Do they look like they have a clue there’s a 50ft monster behind them? They are clueless! Recovery from addiction, drug or alcohol, even amongst folks who really want to quit…is low…really low. Spend a lifetime of savings on ‘getting treatment’ and you still have about a 97% chance of revisiting those old habits. Cuz they treat the ‘addiction’. The symptom. You cannot heal, unless you understand the disease. These two cards can be about healing. There can be very positive messages from these cards…if you listen. (sentence edited for clarity).

tmgrl2	08 Feb 2005
Thank you, Umbrae...eloquently put. I think I need not clarify my last post in response to Helvetica after reading what you have said. I do see the "spiritual side to work/money as long as we have, and retain balance." You have said well what I believe of these cards. The real "Devil," then, is not the symptom of dis-ease, but the underlying disease itself, which is often not recognized and treated. I have to agree. The 50 ft. monster is often not recognized and so, The cycle continues. "....goodness of heart..." That's the key, is it not? And I like to think that "testimony to his success" is the larger concept that includes such "goodness of heart." terri

firemaiden	08 Feb 2005
Umbrae, wow, that was one powerful post. Still digesting it... (the "steel mosquito" ...whoah, that's colourful language! ) Okay, so addiction is a symptom, and the Devil is the whole underlying cause... and the monster is so big and so close, maybe he is mistaken for part of the scenery? (Hey, what's this big old claw doing here? oh- that's just the way the floor-boards warp....) (and that claw of course is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg) So, to actually perceive the monster they would have to not only turn around, but be able to see things from a higher plane, from above - i.e. connect to the source above, to get outside of our earthbound perspective. So the devil then is about being disconnected from source = not-balanced? And the 6 of pentacles, as card of balance, taken together with the devil, both reversed, might be an reminder to quick right that balance, and reconnect to source, or else?

Moongold	08 Feb 2005
Umbrae wrote: I find it amusing... The Six of Pentacles is a difficult card. I drew it last night during my evening meditation… I find it amusing that for some, it is a ‘ bad charity ’ card. It’s a merchant, with a scale! Gasp … And we move away from the meaning of the card. Motives begin to creep in… Some people see giving as manipulative . Well let’s dig deeper. It's a great interpretation Umbrae. As are the others. :) There are many layers to the 6. And the Devil has many faces.

firemaiden	08 Feb 2005
Perhaps "bad charity" describes the six of pentacles when it is reversed.

Fudugazi	08 Feb 2005
tmgrl2 wrote: The real "Devil," then, is not the symptom of dis- ease , but the underlying disease itself, which is often not recognized and treated. \ It might be a devil, but not the Tarot Devil, not to me, not at all. Can you not see his liberating power, his power of breaking down authority and taboo? The Devil is not disconnection - he is profound connection with our deepest libido, our deepest creativty, the one that creates revolutions and really disturbs people out of their complacency! Am I alone seeing this? Feeling this?

Fudugazi	08 Feb 2005
firemaiden wrote: Perhaps "bad charity" describes the six of pentacles when it is reversed . Giving rice to a country that has a bumper crop and destroying its markets. To bind it in dependency. Yes

Simone	08 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: The Devil is not disconnection - he is profound connection with our deepest libido, our deepest creativty, the one that creates revolutions and really disturbs people out of their complacency! Am I alone seeing this? Feeling this? This reminds me of what a Buddhist teacher once told a friend of mine about samsara (if I remember right, this means the material world and the attachment thereto): If you truly want to be liberated from samsara, you need to experience and recognise it fully first. So in order for us to experience real freedom, we need to experience every part of ourselves, and if it means going though the (in our judgemental opinion) most evil and dark sides, well, this is part of it also :) Doing drugs for example is one side I see in the Devil card, and sometimes this brings about the greatest enlightenment after the darkest night... (I just use this as an example and I am not advertising to do drugs here)

Umbrae	08 Feb 2005
Well let’s take an even deeper look… Bunning: Learning the Tarot – Pg 255: “…represents the extremes of not having and having…” “To dominate and to submit…” A dark card of power and ‘controling’. Kliegman” Tarot and the Tree of Life – Pg 58: “Who likes to receive on their knees?” “…issues of domination and submission, of superiority and genuflecting…” A dark card of power and ‘controling’. Pollack: 78 Degrees of Wisdom – Pg 248: “The card therefore signifies a relationship in shich one person dominates others.” A dark card of power and ‘controling’. Can’t giving just be giving? Can’t it just be that simple? These are dark dark ‘victim think’ cards here. And none of these authors offer a card of just giving. Their world-view allows for none. I find that very sad. In their decks – there is no such thing as giving. Or helping others just to help others…there’s always a dark, sinister side. Screw that. And these are folks that are supposed to be spiritually aware? And deep? And I am amused. Amused too to see the view regurgitated without question. A reversed 6 of Pentacles could be a wake-up call. That there is giving, and giving. One should not always assume either way.

MeeWah	08 Feb 2005
6-Pentacles can be seen as the material aspect of 6-The Lovers. The latter, the flip-side of 15-The Devil. 6-Pentacles, however, is not merely about the material plane of existance but related to the understanding & recognition of abundance; of *all resources* "natural" & otherwise. A spiritual art of sharing is giving with no strings attached. Not out of pity nor to satisfy a personal agenda. He who shares of his bounty does so out of heart (compassion) & mind (understanding). Sees a need from a balanced view of all aspects; expects nothing in return. Reversed, it indicates a misunderstanding of its concept. That which is subverted or otherwise maligned; a contrived means to an end. A vehicle about the self to further ambitions of influence, power or greed. The Devil is a great revealer by whose contrasts brings enlightenment. His hand provides the means, the experiences for the comparision; for the weighing of one way/thing against another. Reversed, The Devil is disguised. The true motivation cloaked as something else. Such as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Or of neediness. Hence, one who appears as forthright, confident & successful (King-Swords) is apparently seen as of dubious agendas; giving with conditions attached (6-Pentacles-R). Seeking to gain favour or power by the most persuasive & appealing means at his disposal (15-The Devil-R). Whether this is actually the case may need further determination if not to be taken at face value.

Umbrae	08 Feb 2005
Because there was no question and no spread, simply three cards laid down, we cannot assume the tarot means for us to read these as a strict A-B-C sequence. Is the King of Pentacles the focal point or is it XVrx? Did he do the giving? Or is it related? Are they three glimpses at one event/happening/circumstance? Or three unrelated things? Or three unrelated things that point towards root causes? He could almost be the speaker here. Telling the sitter to be aware of these other issues… Perhaps there is a person in the sitters life who has warned her of such things? That some gifts given to her were not with stings attached and to not assume there were attachments? Has the sitter been having issues of revealing to herself, where ego holds her back? Where what she thought she was was not who she is (XVrx – the lie of the ego, blind dependence upon who we think we are? And is there a King of Swords reminding her of this? As what’s his name would say…it’s all in the cards.

firemaiden	08 Feb 2005
yes :)

caridwen	09 Feb 2005
I've been reading this thread with great interest because I also have difficulty with the 6 Pentacles (RWS) It's one of those cards that, when I see it come up in a spread my heart sinks. We had an interesting discussion about it in the RWS Study Group, which helped me a lot. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=36657&page=2&pp=10 I see The Lovers/Six Pentacles/Devil as closely linked, not only because of the pose of the figures but also because of conscience/conscious action and free will aspects. The Lovers can refer to making a choice, an ethical choice and taking the right or wrong path. A crossroads, which will test the strength of your values. Values. We can examine the meaning of value - something that can be measured and its worth calculated. The Devil can refer to lack of willpower, taking that wrong path and going against more moral Value or better judgement. The 6 of Pentacles could refer to conscience, as can all three cards. Making a judgement in line with your conscience and consciously making a choice. Also using our powers of discrimination and not making easy value judgements. Although the better-dressed beggar is being given to first, maybe he is the more needy of the two. We can judge the Merchant as discriminating in two senses. Using his judgement in a fair or balanced way or using his discrimination in a calculating materialistic way. Or somewhere between the two. We often have to make hard choices in life and use our powers of discrimination and act in an objective way for the better good. I think the Six draws our attention to this difficult aspect. The scales are tipped slightly to the right - towards our conscious selves. Not a gift from the heart but from the mind. Yet both are equally valuable. It depends on the circumstances, which again depends on your powers of discrimination and also your conscience. I'm still working on this card so maybe I'm not making much sense - humble apologies;)

firemaiden	09 Feb 2005
What fascinates me, it didn't occur to me when I put these cards down, that they could be be a reading for myself, -- I just sort of laid them out to look at, and was interested in the amazing relationship between the cards. In the progress of this thread, however, three very different interpretations have come to light and they are all quite true and relevant to me, in different, but not unconnected ways. In Umbrae's interpretation, which is true for me in a very deep way, he suggests that King of Swords might in fact be the speaker: Umbrae wrote: Has the sitter been having issues of revealing to herself, where ego holds her back? Where what she thought she was was not who she is (XVrx – the lie of the ego, blind dependence upon who we think we are? And is there a King of Swords reminding her of this? I have indeed been going through a moment of finding out who I thought I was is not exactly who I am, and seeing where ego holds me back, and there is indeed a king of swords lighting the way to see these things. And then, there is the reading, in which the King of Swords is the subject, a person with the attributes of 6p rx, and XV rx - Meewah wrote: Hence, one who appears as forthright, confident & successful (King-Swords) is apparently seen as of dubious agendas; giving with conditions attached (6-Pentacles-R). Seeking to gain favour or power by the most persuasive & appealing means at his disposal (15-The Devil-R). Meewah's take brings vividly to mind my recent encounter with a very needy, persuasive, stranger - - offering money and gifts in tandem with agressive, and unwelcome sexual pressure.. And then there is another way of viewing the cards, (shared by Meewah) - relating to my recent inadvertant "spell" mishap. -- in which the King of Swords is not a person at all, but the very act of using words to express a wish, the 6 of P Rx is my own state of imbalance, from which the wish was issued, and the Devil Rx, is the result of the granting of this misguided wish - as the appearance of a frog into my life... (the stranger described in the previous paragraph). Looking over this thread, I see that though I did not think of them as a reading, the cards I happened to pull off the top of the deck and put down, were a perfect reflection of the issues I was facing at that moment: the mishap with the spell, and the gentleman who wanted to "buy" me; the wake up call to recover "balance", and the process of discovering an entirely different self. Are we having fun yet?

caridwen	09 Feb 2005
"Meewah's take brings vividly to mind my recent encounter with a very needy, persuasive, stranger - - offering money and gifts in tandem with agressive, and unwelcome sexual pressure.." I can definately see the Six of Pentacles as relating to this nasty encounter. Especially when aligned with the Devil. Relating to the gift for a gift aspect. He gives to the better off beggar because he can gain more in return. Or his act is not entirely benevolent there are very definate strings attached. More so if you see the coins as a string (some coins were actually on string). A mutual bind. By accepting the gifts you enter the contract. In China there is guanxi - it means relationships but everyone knows the 'real' meaning which is nothing is done or given free. There will always be a price - someone may help you but they will expect help in return. Very similar to Gebo. Also Harmony. I'm not in the least surprised you related to the cards. When we're not making conscious decisions is where our subconscious is free.

firemaiden	09 Feb 2005
Hi Caridwen, in particular both the six of pentacles and the devil being reversed, made me see it this way. Now it may very well be that the young man did not have any strings to attach what so ever to his offers, but the fact is that they felt like pressure.

augursWell	09 Feb 2005
firemaiden wrote: What fascinates me, it didn't occur to me when I put these cards down, that they could be be a reading for myself, -- I just sort of laid them out to look at, and was interested in the amazing relationship between the cards. I always make the assumption that any cards that I lay out are a reading about something even if that is just a learning experience for myself. I also use 3 and 5 card spreads which have no meaning attached to positions and with which I ask no questions at all. It is sort of an "okay universe, tell me something I need to know" type of exercise. I assumed this was what you were doing from the start of this thread. Tarot cards this way always tell me something even if I don't want to hear it or even if it just turns out to be the plot of a TV show. :)

psychic sue	11 Feb 2005
I agree that there is a connection between 6 pentacles and the devil. An alternative interpretation of the card is in fact being stuck in a situation, for example a job which pays bills but which gives little satisfaction, or a relationship where two people are unfullfilled, but remain together because its easier than splitting up. The devil reversed, often refers to not being able to let go of the past, or "face your demons". The reversal in this case does not change the meaning of the card, simply the emphasis.

KathleenC	11 Feb 2005
I got the devil - 6 of pentacles combination recently, and took it mean that beggars can't be choosers, but some (not all) choose to be beggars. On the figure below the scales I mistook what I now know to be a patch maybe shaped like a yod, for a pocket containing either a bill - evidence of spending beyond his means - or a stash of previous handouts received hoarded rather than spent wisely.

ncefafn	12 Feb 2005
firemaiden wrote: King of Swords, XV rx and 6 of p rx. I haven't read anyone else's interp, just shooting from my hip. Anyway, XV rx and 6 of pents rx might indicate giving up a bad habit by giving all your associations with it away. For instance, if you're a compulsive shopper, chopping up all your credit cards, an action which goes well with the cutting nature of the King of Swords. The King indicates you're taking this action from a cool, rational place, refusing to allow yourself to be swayed by compulsive desires or the little games your mind plays to rationalize clinging to the bad habit.

ncefafn	12 Feb 2005
Umbrae wrote: I find it amusing that for some, it is a ‘ bad charity ’ card. It’s a merchant, with a scale! Gasp … When you refuse to give, you close yourself off from the flow of the universe, the influx and outflux. When you close yourself off from giving, you become isolated. When you become isolated, you fear that the Other (the Enemy, the Strange One in your midst) will take from you what you are unwilling to give. When you refuse to receive, you close yourself off from the universe. You mistrust the intentions of others, and think that every gift, every compliment, is a ruse to get you to drop your guard. And once you drop your guard, that evil Other can sneak into your life and steal what belongs to you. The Six of Pentacles is about the universal truth that only change is constant, that loss and gain are merely cycles on the wheel, that there is no security. Security is an illusion. And illusions which keep us spellbound, fearful, angry and defensive, are what the Devil is all about. He hopes you'll liberate yourself from these illusions, but he can't do the work for you. You have to go within, distance yourself from the fears brought on by materialistic fears and manufactured needs, and relax into the reality of a permanently changing and insecure future.

The What is the relationship between the Six of Pentacles and the XV-the Devil? thread was originally posted on 06 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.