Cards reversing themselves...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Mar 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

psychic sue	23 Mar 2005
If I am shuffling, I don't consciously reverse any cards - and yet some seem to come out reversed. I just wondered, does this happen to anyone else? Or does everyone who works with reversals deliberately reverse some? I am not one of those people who doesn't like reversals or wont use them, but for me, consciously reversing the cards seems like an obvious manipulation. Do you know what I mean? Just wondered how others see this. Sue x

Enchanted	23 Mar 2005
Just the way I shuffle and draw (what feels right for me) means that I hardly get reversals. So when I do get one, alarm bells ring so I obviously pay extra attention to that card. But I get what you mean about manipulation and so now have resolved to not upright cards that I notice are reversed when they fall out of a shuffle (perfectionist tendancy :laugh: ) so that they can appear as they will. I have come to believe that the less conscious manipulation that you instill in the cards the better for you and your readings. I, like you, do not fear reversals, as I tend to take into account all possible meanings of the cards, negative and positive and see what speaks to me. But then I am purely speaking in terms on personal readings as I rarely read for others (only when begged) as I guess I feel like I am still a novice and reluctant to impart life changing 'wisdom' through the cards (although without the cards I will give advice left, right and centre) whether they want it or not :laugh:. So I would agree with you "to be reversed or not be reversed" that is the 'divine' question.

peridot	23 Mar 2005
Hi psychic sue, What happens to me is that sometimes while I’m shuffling, a couple may fall out and I just stick them back in (not looking at what they were unless it’s only one that falls out. For some reason, I think that I’m supposed to have that one.), other times, I’m just plain messy about my shuffling and when they don’t quite fall nicely back into the deck I sort of have to place them back in there and I think sometimes they get reversed there. Also when I “clear” the cards, I spread them all over the table and swish them around and then I proceed. So that’s how mine end up reversed. I agree with both of you about manipulating the cards - I’ve read that you can ignore reversed cards and turn them upright again and read them that way. I have a really hard time with this. I’m new and reversed cards for me cause some confusion anyway but I can not bring myself to alter the way the card fell. So I find myself reading them that way. And since my shuffling methods reverse them anyway, what choice do I have? :)

Adept One	23 Mar 2005
Two cents for you, from me, being new as to all this I find reversals best left till I understand the straight meanings then go for its reverse. If it does not fit the pattern of my question or contradicts most or all the other cards I may draw another card to see if there is a clarification of the reversal. If this makes sense.

psychic sue	23 Mar 2005
I don't have a problem reading reversals, and I personally feel that if they come out that way they are meant to be read that way. Its the shuffling thing really I was getting at. Sometimes I will place them on the floor and shush them around, but most of the time I prefer to shuffle. Its nice to know other people have the same feelings on the manipulation topic. !! Thanks for the replies so far, Sue x

Enchanted	23 Mar 2005
Oh no my Virgo ascendant would shudder at the thought of shushing them around, how chaotic :laugh: nothing like a good neat and orderly shuffle!!! And then...que sera sera... :) But thats just me...almost envious of the rebellion, might have to try a shush and see what happens!

psychic sue	23 Mar 2005
Go on .... You know you want to ;)

Enchanted	23 Mar 2005
Is it that obvious ;) . A naughty devil in hermits clothing :D

tarotbear	23 Mar 2005
Cards are inanimate objects ~ even though we all feel they have personalities! They cannot 'reverse themselves', magically or otherwise. When you get a reversed card, somewhere, somehow along the line you did reverse it - maybe not the last time you shuffled, but somewhere along the line you or someone else did and it took until this spread for it to show up. It might be when you gathered up the cards from the last reading you did; you may have accientally reversed the pack when you returned the cards to the deck. There are many possibilities out there! However - when you get a reversed card ( I don't care it they are upright or reversed, I read them anyway), it means you were supposed to get it that way! :smoker:

Grizabella	23 Mar 2005
I agree with tarotbear. But I don't use reversed cards. I put them back upright and shuffle so they aren't reversed. I guess if a card were to fall out and land reversed I could read it that way, but then what if it were sideways horizontally-----how would I read it then? Or if it were on the diagonal? So I just read upright cards and seem to do as good a job as possible that way. I still get the message. The cards are just cards. Ink on cardboard. The "magic" is in our own interpretation of the cards. It's in what our subconscious does with the images.

Ahria	23 Mar 2005
It happens to me as well, I just refuse point blank to read reversals, so if its the wrong way round I just turn it the other way. If it is trying to make a point - well tough, I don't do reversals. Edit: I think I came through a bit harsh, this to me is a personal preferance, I find enough meanings in the cards without reversals and every card to me has a good and bad side, so which one it is depends on my intuition and the cards around it. Sorry again if I came through as abrupt.

Keslynn	23 Mar 2005
I don't usually read with reversals or shuffle so I get them, but I've also had a random one come up in a reading. Sometimes I turn it right-side up and keep going. Other times, I do feel like it should be reversed so I leave it that way. I let my intuition decide what feels right at the moment. :) Kes

sprite	23 Mar 2005
personally if the cards come up reversed i read them that way. i always give my cards to the person facing up, if when shuffling they get turned upside down and end up in the reading to me theres a reason for that. i watch though if a majority of the cards turn out upside down i pick up the cards put them back in order have them reshuffle and relay the cards.

gareth.	23 Mar 2005
Of not reading reversals.Tarot only keys you into this game of intuition and foresight and only those who have the ability to connect.Just feel!!!

Free Flight	23 Mar 2005
I love reversals and I consiously manipulate the deck to give me them. I guess it all comes down to personal choice but for me I have to have them. As I shuffle I rotate half the deck 180 degrees then I shuffle again and repeat approx 7 times. This way each card can be turned upright and hither and so on quite often. I feel that I am so overmanipulating the deck so that it comes random again! Some spreads I get no reversals and sometimes most. I think it comes down to personal choice

Requiella	23 Mar 2005
Lyric wrote: The cards are just cards. Ink on cardboard. The "magic" is in our own interpretation of the cards. It's in what our subconscious does with the images. This is my philosophy as well. I usually just shuffle and let whatever happens happen. Reversals are not a big issue for me one way or the other, although I can see a benefit to getting comfortable with the cards first before adding reversal meanings. Many people I've talked to started out reading without reversals until they reached a certain comfort level. Me, on the other hand...well, I guess I like to make things difficult on myself! I started out reading everything, but with a book always close by. Looking back, it's not necessarily the approach I'd recommend though!

Adept One	23 Mar 2005
But only when you can agree with them. They stimulate seeking further knowledge.

caridwen	23 Mar 2005
Although I believe, of course, that Tarot doesn't have its own consciousness, I do believe that the cards work through energy. When I'm shuffling, I know when the answer is being sorted by the way the cards separate and slide back into the deck. It's difficult to explain but the shuffling process has two levels. The first is box shuffling while I concentrate on the question and the second level is energy shuffling where the cards form themselves into the spread. They take on a different pattern even though I'm shuffling in the same way. I always check for reversals before I begin shuffling and don't shuffle for them so if a card comes out reversed I do take note of it. If a card flips out off the deck during the shuffle I take note of whether it's reversed or not. I then put it back in and, if it comes up in the spread - take special notice of it.:)

rainwolf	24 Mar 2005
I use reversals because i think they came out for a reason, just as did the individual card. It seems like if you can just "flip" the card upright, you could "replace" a card you dont like. I dont use intuition, energy, etc. much, i use analysis and comparison to get insight-i believe in the synchrocity of it. You dont have to make a whole new meaning for reversals, you can make it as simple as say, needing more attention or that it is at a different level than its upright. I dont think they come out reversed because you shuffled them that way, because i have had a reading with only one reversed (well beyond chance in that realm), as well as the other way around, with most of them reversed (and i agree it is a little more difficult trying to interpret reversals sometimes, especially a great amount of them in a 10 or 15 card spread). But hey, thats my opinion and everyone has their own :)

jentayu	24 Mar 2005
psychic sue wrote: If I am shuffling, I don't consciously reverse any cards - and yet some seem to come out reversed. I just wondered, does this happen to anyone else? Or does everyone who works with reversals deliberately reverse some? I am not one of those people who doesn't like reversals or wont use them, but for me, consciously reversing the cards seems like an obvious manipulation. Do you know what I mean? Just wondered how others see this. Sue x Hi Psychic Sue! :) Well, for me, I never do a reading with reverse cards. But, I sometimes get reversed cards in my readings, I really don't how I did it, it's just REVERSED as I lay it down! Really strange........... I used to asked a question about the wheather ( this was a long time ago ), and suddenly I got the SUN card Reversed! and after a few hours, it was raining cats and dogs outside! Coincidence? I don't believe that! :P For me, I don't use reversals in my readings. I just felt it wasn't necessary for me to do so, that's all. Jentayu

jentayu	24 Mar 2005
gareth. wrote: Of not reading reversals.Tarot only keys you into this game of intuition and foresight and only those who have the ability to connect.Just feel!!! Hi Gareth! :) Hmmmmmm.......... the term you use "just feel" is my way of doing readings with tarot. COOL! :P Jentayu

psychic sue	24 Mar 2005
tarotbear wrote: Cards are inanimate objects ~ even though we all feel they have personalities! They cannot 'reverse themselves', magically or otherwise. When you get a reversed card, somewhere, somehow along the line you did reverse it - maybe not the last time you shuffled, but somewhere along the line you or someone else did and it took until this spread for it to show up. It might be when you gathered up the cards from the last reading you did; you may have accientally reversed the pack when you returned the cards to the deck. There are many possibilities out there! However - when you get a reversed card ( I don't care it they are upright or reversed, I read them anyway), it means you were supposed to get it that way! :smoker: Yes TB, I KNOW they don't reverse themselves! What I was getting at was the CONSCIOUS decision to reverse. It seems a bit contrived to me. I agree that if a card comes up it should be read as reversed. I don't shy away from reversals at all. Sue

Iamwhatiam	24 Mar 2005
I really encourage people who are uncomfortable with reversals, which IMO are not scary, evil, omninous things - to give it a try. Think about this way, the tarot offers 78 examples of the human experience, when you add reversals you are getting a total of 156 examples of the human experience. And so with practice and contemplation your readings can be far more richer. I think it is because people fear them that questions like the topic of this thread emerge.

Milfoil	25 Mar 2005
I can't stand the wondering if it was me manipulating them or not so I always 'shoosh' (I like that word :) ) them around both clockwise and anti clockwise for a while before giving them a quick shuffle and cut.

Dylan	26 Mar 2005
I will read a card reversed if for some reason it comes out that way, but I would never reverse cards on purpose. I would find my deck too annoying if all the cards where mixed up :) I can imagine reading reversals for some people (me being one) is nothing to do with feeling uncomfortable or seeing them as scary. It is more the fact that we are still learning and getting to grips with 78+ meanings and all that goes with this. Purposely adding another 78+ is not ideal for some people at an early stage of their journey.

Iamwhatiam	26 Mar 2005
Dylan wrote: Purposely adding another 78+ is not ideal for some people at an early stage of their journey. Says who? When I started learning tarot, I studied reversals as well.

Dylan	26 Mar 2005
Iamwhatiam wrote: Says who? When I started learning tarot, I studied reversals as well. If you read my post i said, "for some people" and i know this is true after reading people say a similar thing here. I did not state this is written in stone for everyone to follow.

Annabelle	26 Mar 2005
Ah, reversals. An interesting subject. When I was just starting to read tarot, I used them and tried very hard to learn them. I felt that it was taking the easy way out, and missing half the picture, if I didn't use them. But after having been here at AT for a little while, and after reading the opinions of many people with far more tarot experience than me, and after learning to open my mind and trust my intuition during readings, I have stopped using reversals. Now, if cards turn up reversed, I simply turn them back around upright. However, I pay a lot of attention to context, "flashes" that I get, and plain old gut feeling...sometimes the way I interpret a card will be according to its "reversed" meaning, even though I'm looking at it upright. I'm also trying to learn to use elemental dignities, which to me make a lot more sense than reversals.

Iamwhatiam	26 Mar 2005
Dylan wrote: If you read my post i said, "for some people" and i know this is true after reading people say a similar thing here. I did not state this is written in stone for everyone to follow. It was not my intent to become argumentative. But I admit I was reactive. I was reactive, because I see alot of people making learning tarot extremely hard for themselves. As if it is some dangerous mystery that if you don't shuffle the cards right or do various rituals or such you will fail or you will be cursed. I see people on here who are making the tarot cards BIGGER than themselves. They are just inanimate objects used for meditation and if you believe divination. If you focus on the small details you are missing out on the whole process of meditation and introspection which comes from a place of opening one's self up and relaxing. That is all I really meant.

psychic sue	27 Mar 2005
Personally, I learned with reversals right from day one. This was really out of ignorance, because I had one second book and there was no internet in those days! I didn't even know any other readers. So I just assumed that you had to learn the reversals too. To be honest, I am glad that I did it that way now, even though it took a long time. Another little question here :- So you do a reading and there are reversals in it. When you clear the deck ready for the next reading, do you turn everything up the right way again and then "shoosh"? I once read, ages ago now and its only just come back to me, that you should put the deck back in all its suits in the right order and the Majors on top, before you shuffle or shoosh again. Any thoughts on that? Sue x

Enchanted	27 Mar 2005
More of a comment than a recommendation. I recently read that that was one way to 'cleanse' the deck and tried it with the thought of refreshing the cards. It hasn't seemed to make a difference in my readings but the cards themselves do 'feel' better for it, less 'sticky' (for want of a better word). Still not brave enough to try the shoosh! ;)

rainwolf	27 Mar 2005
psychic sue wrote: Personally, I learned with reversals right from day one. This was really out of ignorance, because I had one second book and there was no internet in those days! I didn't even know any other readers. So I just assumed that you had to learn the reversals too. I agree with PS and Iamwhatiam-i started from day one. The book i was studying from said that "some people believe that you dont use reversals, but i think you can". It made sense to me and it adds depth to the readings. I wish i could use it for all my decks, but many of them make it hard to use because of the authors interpretation and the back design.

The Cards reversing themselves... thread was originally posted on 23 Mar 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.