Death Card

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Mar 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ambyr_rain	12 Mar 2005
It has been awhile since I was on hear last. But I have had some personal things happen, but I would like to get someones take on this. A while back I did a spread for a friend of mines bf. (we will call her Anna). The spread I did for Anna's BF showed that the final out come would be him and someone else. The next spread I did was for a mutual friend of Anna's and mine. This time the death card came up, but I read into it a big blow up that would center around Anna. This blow up would effect everyone in our group. About one month later, Anna died, and the big blow up happened just a couple of days later. I keep thinking back that I didn't read the cards completely, and I should have seen her death. I know that the cards didn't cause them and I couldn't have stopped her from dying, but I still go back to that reading. Has anyone every had the death card come up and it actually ment death?

ros	12 Mar 2005
Sorry about your situation. I have not had this happen yet in a reading. I feel that you can't unlearn knowledge and this issue will sit with you for a while because Death meant a death. Death may have had a different meaning also at that time of the reading,so please don't be hard on yourself. Take care (((Ambyr_rain)))

BlueLotus	12 Mar 2005
I have had Death come up as the outcome card for a passive reading I did for a relative. As I have not personally heard from him for a while, but I know from friends and other relatives that he was doing fine except from some minor health problems, I assum/ed that he is probably having some major transformation at this time in his life, which he is , as he had to put up with a lot of stuff lately. Although I doubted at the time of the reading that this card really meant death per se, the near future may reveal other insights I am unaware of at this time. I am waiting to hear from him.

Free Flight	12 Mar 2005
(((((((Hi Ambyr_rain)))))))) there is a joke in one of my tarot books that all tarot readers find it ironic that people balk whenever the death card comes up but do not bat an eyelid when the tower shows up. In very very rare cases death card can mean physical death but it is never advisable to say anything under any circumstances, ever! OK say this card came up and you saw this and you said to your friend. 'oh you're going to die' It would not have helped the situation at all. It would not have aided her in the slightest but it would have made her last days more worriesome. Also there is the added danger if a reader were to say this to a querant and they were wrong, then the implications on the querant's life would be massive. Don't be hard on yourself. Even the most skilled psychic mediums say they are never told when someone will pass. I believe, only God knows this. Sorry for your loss FF

Simone	13 Mar 2005
I have this friend who got told by a reader over two years ago that her husband was going to die in a traffic accident... the hubby is still alive, and did not have an accident so far, but the thought is still haunting her, she will never be able not to think of it. So even if you had seen this death happening, it would not have been very ethical to tell her... things like that have a way of poisoning the querent's consciousness and even unconsciousness, given that we all are more or less afraid of death... My two cents, maybe they help ;) Love Simone

psychic sue	13 Mar 2005
So sorry A, I too have seen death in the cards, but not the actual death card. Still, it was a nasty experience. One was a suicide and I felt bad that I couldn't do anything about it. I am putting you in my prayers, that you get over this soon. There was nothing you could have done. The good comes with the bad with Tarot. But the Good definitely outweighs the bad. Love Sue xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sinner	13 Mar 2005
The closest to that I've encountered is suicidal tendancies, but it wasn't with the death card, it was the 10 of swords. But I didn't tell the other person about it of course. Some people actually ask if I can tell them when they will die.

contradiction	13 Mar 2005
I am so sorry for your loss! But, yes I have had the death card come up to mean death. I truly understand, how you feel. All you can do is decide that you are not going to let this get you down. I know this is easier said than done, but this is not your fault. There is nothing you could have done. If you need to talk pm me, I will be glad to help you through this.

Elven	13 Mar 2005
Im sorry too that this has made you feel the way you do. It can certainly leave you feeling somewhat anxious or confused when it turns up in any readings that follow from now on for a while maybe. Have you discussed this with any of your friends. You are not responsible and if you were meant to read it any other way you would have, but you didnt and I believe that it how it is meant to be. I lost a work colleague not long after reading that there would be a death in my workplace but I dismissed it as I didnt know how to recognize the person through the cards and I thought it would have been someone else. (It was a private reading for myself) To this day I think about that reading and that beautiful soul, but I know that if I HAD reacted on the cards (1) I would have chosen the wrong person to focus upon (2) Would have felt responsible in some way from my actions if I had taken any. The cards possibly did not give me this information for good reason - or my higher consciousness would not recognise the message sent -again, for my own good purpose. For this I thank them. It didnt make me feel incompitent as a reader but it certainly helped me understand the implications of reading the death card. I am grateful and humbled by the experience. Be kind to yourself and take care, and keep reading - everyone has a something to reflect on during their tarot journey. Elven x

rainwolf	13 Mar 2005
I think you can fortell death, but that you should say something like "there will be a big change in..." to make it sound far from death. In the llewellyn magizine, Kala Trobe did a reading where she got a strong feeling a woman's husband was going to die, and she phrased it just how i said it. The woman's husband died a week later. A friend of mine's sister was reading her cards and palm, and accidently (i would presume) said she saw something bad. My friend implored her to tell her what it was, and finally got out that her son would die. A week later he did in a car accident. (what was really sad was that his acceptance letter into medical school came shortly after). Seeing death in the cards may seem interesting, but i think the affects of it will be heavy.

Major Tom	13 Mar 2005
Ah Death, my only friend. }) One needn't be psy-chic to foretell anyone's death. We're all going to pass away some time. :laugh: There is a phrase that comes to mind (pardon me but it's Christian): Let go and let God. Ponder my core belief: God is Everything. Are you a spiritual being having a physical manifestation or a physical being with a spriitual element? It's in your very nature to Ascend. ;)

caridwen	13 Mar 2005
Let me add my condolences as well. I have recently done a spread where I had a horrible feeling that the Death card meant actual death - as soon as I saw it I thought someone close to the person was going to die. I didn't tell the querent or even hint at it. What would have been the point? What if I was wrong?

calligirl	13 Mar 2005
In my studies of different subjects and beliefs, I have come to think that we all have a master plan and have chosen how things are supposed to happen in our lives. A member of my family had a friend who had a minor accident, a week later had a ticket for speeding and then was killed instantly less than two weeks later in a single car accident. My relative was very upset and kept saying there were the signs, why didn't she see them? My reply to her was maybe the signs were for HER to prepare her for losing her friend in that way. Perhaps the reading was meant more for you to let you know what was coming, to prepare you rather than warn her. In any case, I am very sorry for your loss...

Skydancer	13 Mar 2005
Death - we are in the nodding when meeting stage now. He nods, and I acknowledge him and hope he keeps on walking by. But he has a job to do and so do I, and that's how it is. My latest encounter was with a repeated drawing of the 3 of swords in conjunction with my mother in law. Really an eye opener the first time because her latest ailment was a heart aneurysm. She was wavering over surgery for this when she was taken by the rupturing of another aneurysm priviously found. My point is, that I took it to be a death card, and yet --- a friend here thought that maybe it was a good sign, that there would be celebrating later because of surviving this. Para-phrasing here. It was good in one respect - my MIL had been wanting to go for over a year. Was wondering why it was taking so long. I didn't tell anyone of my tarot drawings - just worded conversations with family members to help bring about awareness that this might be the outcome. Hinted at it to my husband, and when he happen to say that he thought her death might be soon, I only nodded as if I felt that he might be correct. Didn't mean to be wordy, but my situation was just over a month ago. So I have to agree that to say something outright can/does cause more harm than good. Know it might be coming, as in how much you trust yourself with the cards etc, and be there ready for the other people when needed. Sorry for your losses. It's always hard for those of us left behind to ponder these things, and to wonder what we could have done to change the outcome. I will leave on this one last note: it has become my understanding, since late last year, that Death only comes when called. My analytical brain is still working out the details, but this is my working hypothesis. *S*

judylea1	13 Mar 2005
I recently got the death card in a reading and shortly after that learned that an old friend of mine had commited suicide. It is the only time that I personally have gotten the death card and it was kind of a shock. I have had a lot of time to think about it, though, and considering the long history of problems this person had I don't know that there was anything I could have done about it had I forseen it. Sometimes it's hard to let go of some sense of responsibility on these things -- people tend to think, oh, there must have been something I could have done -- but it was his decision to do that.

tarotbear	14 Mar 2005
The Death card is another card about change ( see my posts under the Tower card discussion.) The Death card appearing in a spread does not represent death for you , the querent, or anyone the querent knows. {I know - try to be rational expalining a card that says DEATH in half-inch high letters!] The Death card is a different kind of change. Whereas the Tower card is a sudden and usually unhappy change, the Death card is about permanent and lasting change. This change will happen as sure as death; nothing can alter or stop this change - it will happen anyway. This is not negative. It does tell you, however, that the change is in the air and perhaps you'd better sit down and consider what you will do once this change occurs, for you will never be able to return to the state you were in before this change. Whether is was good or bad no longer matters; it's over. Time to move on. ****** I am going to tell you something that is in my book, but I usually don't discuss. I once did a reading for a man with a terminal illness ... and the reading was great! Things were going to look up! And ... he died ten days later ... !!! Did I misread his cards? Not at all. One of the last cards was the Ace of Swords - victory over strife. We took this to be very positive, but in retrospect I see that the only way he was going to be lifted out of his termninal pain was by dying. In a very quiet way the cards may have predicted his death ~ but not with the Death or Towers cards. :smoker:

Vincent	15 Mar 2005
tarotbear wrote: The Death card is another card about change ( see my posts under the Tower card discussion.) The Death card appearing in a spread does not represent death for you , the querent, or anyone the querent knows. Apparently the Death card does represent death to some. Take judylea for example; "I recently got the death card in a reading and shortly after that learned that an old friend of mine had commited suicide...." and contradiction; "...yes I have had the death card come up to mean death..." but in these modern times it is very difficult to sell the idea of death. Much easier to sell Botox and Viagara. And, in accordance with Orwell's insightful suggestion, that not only does thought influence language, but also language influences thought, we have invented new words to deal with death; transformation, metamorphosis or even the rather bland, change. There are decks that have retitled this Trump in this way, and changed the imagery to something a little more palatable for todays market. Most people don't like to think about death, especially when it concerns their loved ones, or maybe even worse, themself. So what should Tarot readers say when the Death card comes up, and the Querent asks in a tremulous voice "what does that Death card represent"? It doesn't really take a lot of working out. This is one of the most unambiguous cards in the deck. It means death. That is why there is (usually) a Grim Reaper scything down the heads of the rich and poor, the innocent and the guilty, the faithful and the faithless. No favours are given in this Last Waltz. When Death takes your hand and asks you to dance, it is the fulfillment of the inevitable, and each day you live, that inevitability is closer to tapping you on your shoulder and asking if it might cut in. Now, we can live our lives blinkered to this fact, believing that perhaps this process can't or won't affect us, but every time that Death card pops out, you should get a reminder. Of course it is a transformation, you don't get many bigger transformations than death, but that doesn't mean that Death is no longer gracefully swishing across the dance floor, on his way to ask for your hand. Transformation takes place every day. You are not the person you were yesterday, and tomorrow you will not be the same person as you are today. Every second of every day you are changing.... this is the process of death, and no-one gets out alive. This is what the Death card represents. And what prediction could ever be more accurate? The card turns up. You say "there is going to be a death". Bingo. 100% accuracy. This doesn't necessarily mean you should be asking the Querent for payment as soon as you see the card. The fact that the Death card might not mean imminent physical death, doesn't mean that it never can. Vincent

Simone	15 Mar 2005
That the change represented by the Death card is feared, dreaded and burdened with negative interpretations is probably due to the fact that most people simply fear to die... Physical death is nothing more than a birth into different realms which, if one looks at all the NDEs and old mystical texts, seem to be happy place usually (except if you believe in biblical hell). The permanent change in a life, an upturning of everything one knew is dreaded also - most people do not like to change, even if it means freeing oneself from a past that's over and done with, that has no business in one's life any longer, and to be reborn into a new era. So I like to explain death like what happens to nature in winter - the trees shed all the leaves that have outlived their use to be replaced by new ones in spring, or by the pruning of trees to rid them of dead wood. I recently had the death card for a querent, she immediately reacted (gasped) and I told her (in the context of the reading) it meant cleaning up, disentangling of the situation, make it clear and see-through again, get rid of all the stuff that has no place there any more.... But I think, if we were able to accept change (any change!) with joy in our hearts, the Death card would loose it's terror and discussions like this one would not really be necessary any more .... :D Love Simone

tarotbear	15 Mar 2005
Vincent wrote: Apparently the Death card does represent death to some. d be asking the Querent for payment as soon as you see the card. The fact that the Death card might not mean imminent physical death, doesn't mean that it never can.Vincent Yes, but it does not mean that it's appearance in a reading always will.

Fudugazi	15 Mar 2005
Timely reminder, Vincent. Our ancestors, who invented the Death card (and did not call it anything, so strong is the image of the scything skeleton) lived with death in their daily lives, but they had a view of death that was less purely biological than ours - just as many of our fellow-humans do in parts of the world where modern healthcare is patchy. As well as bodily decay, evoked through skeletons and skulls, Death was (is) seen as a passing into another realm, even another incarnation. For many, death was (is) a liberation from a wretched life - which nevertheless everyone (including the wretched) is attached to. Hence the ambiguous message of Arcanum 13, which modern Western man struggles to reinterpret as "transformation". The message borne by memento mori (the paintings in which death was symbolically represented, and which are cousins of our Tarot Death card) was that no matter who we are, and where, Death comes to us all. The advice that follows from that varies according to the temperament of the artist - repent and pray, enjoy yourself for time is short, be prepared... This is one of my favourite, by Andrew Marvell, an English poet of the mid-17th Century, who was trying to get a coy girl into bed: "But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near; And yonder all before us lie Deserts of vast eternity. Thy beauty shall no more be found, Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound My echoing song; then worms shall try That long preserv'd virginity, And your quaint honour turn to dust, And into ashes all my lust. The grave's a fine and private place, But none I think do there embrace." History does not tell if his argument succeeded.

psychic sue	16 Mar 2005
Its true that we have the luxury of old age, which of course makes us more complacent about death. Its not something we really think about until we get older. I always think that is why there was such grief when Princess Diana died - it was not only sad and tragic because she was so young, it also made us think about our own mortality - if it could happen to her it could happen to any of us at any time. As people felt they "knew" Diana, this brought the message into sharp focus. There is a discussion on the death card in the RWS study group which some may find interesting on the symbology of the card (sorry I don't know how to post the link!) - how it shows the different age groups attitude to death. Sue

psychic sue	16 Mar 2005
As a separate post, to the people who have "seen" death represented by the death card - don't you think there is a possibility that the death card could have related to other people's attitude to death? Or as Tarotbear posts, the nature of the journey of death itself? I am not saying your interpretations were "wrong" of course, you did the spread, not me! But when I saw 2 deaths in the cards, the cards I picked it up from were :- 5 cups - showing the querants grief and some regret on her part. Hanged Man - this not only gave me the image of a man hanging (he killed himself) but also told me about how the wife would feel afterwards - in limbo. As I say, the actual death was a psychic thing with me, but the cards also had other messages for the querant. Sue x

Ambyr_rain	17 Mar 2005
I just wanted to say thank you for everyone's replies. I know that there was nothing I could have done as she died from cancer just a short month after she was diagnosed. She had been in recovery from it for a little over six years. Had I read the card meaning death I would not have told her, but probably would have asked her to go get a check up. The aspect of death that I did read (and I verbalized it) was the break up of our group. And even warning people of this did not stop the outcome. This has deffinately changed me, as I will never view the card the same way again, but I guess that is part of learning. I mainly needed to talk about it, and I must say it has helped. I know I will take this lesson and hopefully become a better reader with it. Once again. Thank you.

KimberlyKaye	20 Mar 2005
I believe "death" can be seen in the cards, but should never be revealed to the person who is asking for guidance. I had a woman come to me shortly after Christmas in 2004,{ lets say her name is Liz,} She was very nervous, and I realized in the cards, why she came to me. But she wanted me to tell her why she was here, So I did, needless to say, she had went to a tarot card reader when she was 16 yrs old, the woman told her that when her son turned 17 yrs old, he would die in an automobile accident. ( I still can't imagine why the woman would say that to her) so meanwhile, Liz had worried all these years about her son dying. So that is why she came to me, I had seen she had just given someone a set of keys, but with it was worry. So she agreed that her oldest son was the owner of a new vehicle with a set of keys. So I did relieve her mind with the fact that her son wasn't going to die. My belief is that when someone comes to you for guidance, advice, etc, they should always leave you feeling better than how they felt at the time of arriving, that will always be my belief, it's a great feeling knowing you can help someone and dismiss the worry that has been bothering them for sometime. Just thought I would add my 2 cents,, KimberlyKaye

Vincent	20 Mar 2005
KimberlyKaye wrote: I believe "death" can be seen in the cards, but should never be revealed to the person who is asking for guidance. Which brings up other questions. At the time of the reading, are your clients aware that if you see death in the cards, you will not be informing them? Are they entitled to know that? Are they also entitled to know what other things you won't be telling them? These are general questions, not just for Kimberley. Vincent

WalesWoman	20 Mar 2005
Those are really good points Vincent. When we go to a doctor for a checkup and he discovers a terminal illness, do we want him to tell us the truth or go blithely on, unaware? If we hadn't wanted to know what was happening would we have consulted the physician in the first place? How can we determine our options or make informed decisions if some things that someone determines might upset us are withheld? When I saw a person's death in the cards, it was an affirmation of what was already known, but not accepted at that point. The diagnosis had already been made and the extent of the cancer was too far gone and far spread for anything but a supreme miracle to have altered the outcome. This reading was for my eyes alone and for me to come to grips with impending loss, rather than this person asking me to do this reading. I don't think I could ever look at a reading and say for certain that something means death. It could be a warning that unless something is altered, there will be something dangerous or truamatic... I don't have a crystal ball or "real" visions, nor the confidence of infallabilty to do this. So if I "see"/feel something troubling, it needs to be conveyed in such a way that who I'm reading for can come to their own conclusion and decide for themselves what it might ulitimately mean. I sure wouldn't blurt out...you are doomed and gonna die! I'm not quite sure how I would handle it but to be as honest as possible without bludgeoning them. For some reason I think if cards pointed out the possibility that it would confirm something that the querant already suspected rather than be an unknown, unexpected revelation. But this is just me and my opinion...maybe the truth is hard to deal with, but I'd much rather know what I'm dealing with than not. If I want faith in someone or for them to continue to have faith in me, it will because of honesty and respecting that. In a sense if we withhold...we are conveying our lack of faith in their ability to deal with the very things they need to.

psychic sue	21 Mar 2005
I think when one senses death, it can be approached in a subtle way, ie; There may be a time of change, upheaval ahead. As I have posted before, for me anyway, it is the psychic link that tells me of the death, not the cards themselves. As we have free will, that death may be averted as influences change. So, do we have the right to tell someone what MIGHT happen, and so cause them worry on this scale? I suppose this goes back to how we see the tarot. I see it as a guide to life, telling the querant the influences around them. They can then use or ignore these influences. Free will. For a doctor, the illness is there in black and white. It is a fact. Not so with our future readings - we merely tell the querant what influences are there and HOW to manipulate them if they so wish. Just my opinion. Sue x PS - I also like to leave my querants feeling better. Even if they are in for a rocky ride I try and give them positives to work with to make it easier for them.

KimberlyKaye	22 Mar 2005
I do inform them I wont reveal a death, and I also wont do health. I always have them in a better frame of mind when they leave, than when they arrived, in regards to, what are they entitled to know? I guess with me, it really depends on the person, I have regular people that I see, on a regular schedule, some are stronger than others. Most usually arrive with just a certain question in mind, some make you guess, lol.. And then you have some that just want a general reading, but it all depends on the individual and what they are capable of hearing, but that's just my opinion. I could go on and on ,, lol.. But I won't hog the stage.. lol KimberlyKaye Keep smilin

The Death Card thread was originally posted on 12 Mar 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.