Thoughts on The Hanged Man

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Mar 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

TemperanceAngel	27 Mar 2005
I was thinking about how I often sleep in the position of The Hanged Man and have done since I was a child. Not upside down, of course, but with my legs in the same position. As I pondered this the other day I thought about how The Hanged Man who is upside maybe looking at things from a different consciousness, the consciousness of sleeping. Now some may think of this as the astral or the dream state or REM, where we our perceptions are not of those in a wake state or consciousness state. This is where our thoughts can be much more lucid, for want of a better word. I wondered how I could relate this to The Hanged Man and what the card says to us. Is it saying to view things from a more peaceful and relaxed state?

Fudugazi	27 Mar 2005
I have just now done a two card reading for my father, where the Hanged Man was paired with the Star (from the Tarot of Prague). I certainly interpeted in the way you suggested, TA, because the influence of the Star suggested repose, serenity and thinking. My father is a very active man, sporty and curious, a doer, who packs more in one day than many people accomplish in a week: but at nearly 72 he is beginning to feel that some things demands more energy than he has - and he has just had a health scare (it turned out to be nothing but a scare), which has tired him. In that way, I saw the thinking, resting phase of the Hanged Man as something which represents a sacrifice for my father - but which the Star can help him get through gently (he's still planning a long walk this afternoon...). I told him it's a time to reassess his life, an opportunity to reflect, with a message of hope and well-being - which will heal his tired spirit and give him energy in the future if he does not rush the process. In the Prague tarot, the Hanged Man is holding the black alchemical sun - this represents the Black Work - the part of the Great Work which brings the initiate (and the metal!) through dissolution. Here too I see your connection with sleep, TA, for in sleep we experience a kind of dissolution of our personalities, of our ego. It is a forerunner of Death, too, the next card in the Trump sequence and the ultimate dissolution.

TemperanceAngel	27 Mar 2005
Helvetica wrote: Here too I see your connection with sleep, TA, for in sleep we experience a kind of dissolution of our personalities, of our ego. It is a forerunner of Death, too, the next card in the Trump sequence and the ultimate dissolution. Thanks for replying Heveltica :) Yes, the dissolving of our ego during sleep makes a lot of sense in relation to The Hanged Man. I hope your Dad finds some peace and relaxation within himself :)

Dave's Angel	27 Mar 2005
Helvetica, that was a fantastic post! :) What THM boils down to for me is being obliged to stay still and wait (literally with things up in the air!) for one's own good. As such, although alternate perspectives aren't part of the card in themselves, being forced into inaction pretty much forces thinking time on to you as there's nothing else to do in that space. As regards the peacefulness element to the card, it is a card of sacrifice, so in a sense you could relate unburdening oneself of worldly and material cares (even though letting go of them is something part of you really doesn't want to do) as being a sacrifice which brings calm.... in much the way that someone joining a religious order of some sort will abandon much of their possessions and ties but in order to find a deeper sense of meaningfulness and peace. Another motif that springs to my mind with this card is that of the chrysalis - transformation through waiting - so I suppose there again there's the element of an alternate perspective in that the person who comes out of the experience is different to the one who went into it.

TemperanceAngel	27 Mar 2005
I had never thought of The Hanged Man being sacrifice until joining AT. I was doing a reading for a client last week whose husband had a head injury. The Hanged Man spoke to me about him needing to seek 'alternative therapies' and his wife confirmed that he had started seeing an acupuncturist and homeopath. I was very happy! I have often found The Hanged Man to have lethargic energy and quite often associated with people who smoke marijuana. I am not saying dope smokers are lethargic, but they do have a certain energy. Both of these are more divinatory meanings, as opposed to explanations of the Arcana itself and its imagery and iconography.

Moongold	27 Mar 2005
TA if I understand you correctly the idea of the Hanged Man parallelling a sleep state is a beautiful one. When we have a good sleep, we often awaken with a fresh view of things. Waiting to develop a fresh view of things is an action I often associate with the Hanged Man. Dreams sometimes seem illusory because they come in a language that may be not easily understandable for us. It is interesting when you consider the myth of Odin who was reportedly the original Hanged Man. He survived his *hanging* and became a Magician - a master of illusion and magic.

TemperanceAngel	27 Mar 2005
Moongold wrote: TA if I understand you correctly the idea of the Hanged Man parallelling a sleep state is a beautiful one. When we have a good sleep, we often awaken with a fresh view of things. Waiting to develop a fresh view of things is an action I often associate with the Hanged Man. Absolutely Moongold! What a beautiful way to put it :)

graylensman	29 Mar 2005
this isn't so much about the card itself, but a connection to it... Watched "Empire Strikes Back" for the godzillionth time this weekend, and was struck by the Hanged Man imagery in the film. Luke Skywalker seems to spend most of the movie upside down and suspended. In the bacta tank he even crosses his legs like the Hanged Man. And consider in this film that his journey is one of traveleing inward - learning what powers he has, and achieving a greater knowledge than he had previously.

Fudugazi	29 Mar 2005
What an interesting analogy, graylensman! I must see SW again - I always loved watching it!

caridwen	29 Mar 2005
Helvetica wrote: What an interesting analogy, graylensman! I must see SW again - I always loved watching it! I agree - a brilliant and perceptive observation. I must watch The Empire Strikes back again as well with that in mind:)

Fudugazi	29 Mar 2005
graylensman wrote: Watched "Empire Strikes Back" for the godzillionth time this weekend, and was struck by the Hanged Man imagery in the film. Luke Skywalker seems to spend most of the movie upside down and suspended. In the bacta tank he even crosses his legs like the Hanged Man. And consider in this film that his journey is one of traveleing inward - learning what powers he has, and achieving a greater knowledge than he had previously. I've thought again about this. George Lucas, we know, was very influenced by Joseph Campbell - particularly "The Hero with the Thousand Faces." I wonder if, on top of Myth, he followed his mentor in his study of Tarot? - at least for the imagery? Tarot and Myth have many similar features, and the Hanged Man has more mythical association than any other card. I don't have my copy of the book here, but I'll have a look once I get home.

caridwen	29 Mar 2005
Helvetica wrote: I've thought again about this. George Lucas, we know, was very influenced by Joseph Campbell - particularly "The Hero with the Thousand Faces." I wonder if, on top of Myth, he followed his mentor in his study of Tarot? - at least for the imagery? Tarot and Myth have many similar features, and the Hanged Man has more mythical association than any other card. I don't have my copy of the book here, but I'll have a look once I get home. I'm not familiar with Campbell but believe Lucas must have been aware of Jung's archetypes. Which, I believe, influenced Waite - please correct me if I'm wrong:)

Fudugazi	29 Mar 2005
You mean influenced Campbell? Lucas almost certainly would have been aware of Jung. But Campbell is something of a hero of his - and Campbell was influenced by Jung; he delved into Myth and Tarot (though he is better known and appreciated for his work on Myth).

caridwen	29 Mar 2005
Helvetica wrote: You mean influenced Campbell? Oh for face to face talking lol No, influenced Lucas - I'm not aware of Campbell.:D

Fudugazi	29 Mar 2005
caridwen wrote: I'm not aware of Campbell.:D Oh my - he's a bit of a must for a writer, whatever you make of him....(But then I am myth crazy).

graylensman	29 Mar 2005
LOL! I'm reading "Hero With A Thousand Faces" for the first time, but had been aware of Lucas' affinity for Campbell's work. (i'm curious to know if a better familiarity with Campbell's work on my part will redeem "Return of the Jedi".) In turn, I understand that Campbell was enamoured with Star Wars because it represented a modern mythology, and this could explain its phenomenal popularity.

caridwen	29 Mar 2005
graylensman wrote: LOL! I'm reading "Hero With A Thousand Faces" for the first time, but had been aware of Lucas' affinity for Campbell's work. (i'm curious to know if a better familiarity with Campbell's work on my part will redeem "Return of the Jedi".) In turn, I understand that Campbell was enamoured with Star Wars because it represented a modern mythology, and this could explain its phenomenal popularity. I am familiar with Jung and the Greek tragedies including of course, Oedipus Rex et al and Star Wars is most definately a modern mythology. Then, so is Lord of the Rings. Why would I read Campbell as opposed to Jung?

caridwen	29 Mar 2005
Helvetica wrote: Oh my - he's a bit of a must for a writer, whatever you make of him....(But then I am myth crazy). I love myths and folklore as well. My first myth was Beowulf - which I must read again. I am now back into the Greek myths...yet never heard of this Campbell person - fascinating.

graylensman	29 Mar 2005
If I recall correctly, Jung dealt with archetypes, but within the bounds of psychoanalysis, and with an Indo-European flavor. Campbell looked at it from a more global and historical perspective, and was the first to compare a wide range of mythologies, including Native American, to show how truly archetypal such images and themes are. In fact, in "Hero" Campbell likens the psychoanalyst to the Wise Man - or, to use a Tarot image - the High Priestess, who gives the individual needed knowledge as he/she begins her quest.

caridwen	29 Mar 2005
graylensman wrote: If I recall correctly, Jung dealt with archetypes, but within the bounds of psychoanalysis, and with an Indo-European flavor. Campbell looked at it from a more global and historical perspective, and was the first to compare a wide range of mythologies, including Native American, to show how truly archetypal such images and themes are. In fact, in "Hero" Campbell likens the psychoanalyst to the Wise Man - or, to use a Tarot image - the High Priestess, who gives the individual needed knowledge as he/she begins her quest. Then I must look into his work. Thank you for explaining that to me:)

Fudugazi	29 Mar 2005
caridwen wrote: I love myths and folklore as well. My first myth was Beowulf - which I must read again. I am now back into the Greek myths...yet never heard of this Campbell person - fascinating. Cuz you were too busy actually reading myths to keep up with the what the profs had to say about them ;) And Beowulf - what wonderful meat! Odin and the Hanged Man are often mentioned in one breath. But are there others?

Leo62	29 Mar 2005
Quote: Odin and the Hanged Man are often mentioned in one breath. But are there others? The Mythic Tarot uses Prometheus chained to his rock for the Hanged Man. This certainly emphasises the sacrificial element of the card - getting his liver eaten by birds on a daily basis - eeeuggh! Prometheus pays the price for breaking the "rules" and stealing fire from the Gods to give to humankind. Similarly, I seem to remember reading something about Odin wounding or cutting himself before he hung himself up on the World Tree. It's easy to react against this kind of violent imagery, but there's an important message here: for me, the Hanged Man is undergoing initiation. The gift to be gained is wisdom (Odin got the runes, Prometheus got fire, Luke Skywalker got to be a Jedi), but there is always a price to be paid in terms of pain. In myths, the pain is literal and physical. In life it can also be physical but also mental or spiritual.

caridwen	29 Mar 2005
Didn't Odin lose an eye to Mimer? It seems we must all sacrifice something for wisdom or a better perspective. "...teach him the value of self-sacrifice, so that he shrink not in the hour of trial...It is written: If any man will follow after Me, let him take up his cross and deny himself, and follow me?..I accept the Bonds of Suffering and Self-Sacrifice" (Regardie, p 235f). Thus the hanged man may refer to the archetypal Mystic.

Fudugazi	30 Mar 2005
One of the real people I sometimes think of in association with the Hanged Man is the young Daila Lama, who stayed several years a heavily guarded "guest" of the Chinese in his own country, until he was able to escape across the mountains into India. During those years of home confinement he turned from boy to the early version of the mystic leader we know today. He says he learnt patience as a prisoner of the Chinese, when he was not generally mistreated, but simply not able to do anything much (what a terrible thing for a teenager!!). And to come back to TA's comparison with sleep - such a time as he went through was a form of sleep - a time when he had to let go of all defences. I also think of the mythical creator of the I-Ching in that way too, King Wen, who was thrown in prison by his overlord from the Shang family - and during the 7 years he spent in jail, devised the i-ching hexagrams, images and judgements.

graylensman	30 Mar 2005
Okay, I've been thinking long and hard on this (like I don't have anything else to do!) and I must disagree with Prometheus connection to the Hanged Man. I understand the Hanged Man to be a state one enters into more or less voluntarily (even in Helvetica's example of the Daila Lama, he chooses to endure his captivity as opposing to fight against it). Odin most certainly enters into the state willingly -even giving up an eye! Additionally, this state leads to the next step on the path - Odin gains the knowledge of the Runes, the Daila Lama escapes to become a voice in the world for peace and tolerance, Luke Skywalker leaves for Bespin to free his friends. Prometheus, on the other hand, is in a state of punishment - he defied the gods, and perhaps thought he could get away with it. Plus, he's chained to that rock for eternity - and only freed when Hercules killed the liver-eating vulture. Just my$.02.

caridwen	30 Mar 2005
Quote: Odin gains the knowledge of the Runes. Odin gained a drink from the fountain of wisdom. For the runes he hung upside down, just like the hanged man, from Yggdrasil - tree of fate. Wounded I hung on a wind-swept gallows For nine long nights, Pierced by a spear, pledged to Odin, Offered, myself to myself The wisest know not from whence spring The roots of that ancient rood

kwaw	01 Apr 2005
graylensman wrote: Okay, I've been thinking long and hard on this (like I don't have anything else to do!) and I must disagree with Prometheus connection to the Hanged Man. I understand the Hanged Man to be a state one enters into more or less voluntarily (even in Helvetica's example of the Daila Lama, he chooses to endure his captivity as opposing to fight against it). Odin most certainly enters into the state willingly -even giving up an eye! Additionally, this state leads to the next step on the path - Odin gains the knowledge of the Runes, the Daila Lama escapes to become a voice in the world for peace and tolerance, Luke Skywalker leaves for Bespin to free his friends. Prometheus, on the other hand, is in a state of punishment - he defied the gods, and perhaps thought he could get away with it. Plus, he's chained to that rock for eternity - and only freed when Hercules killed the liver-eating vulture. Just my$.02. One of the names of the hanged man in other decks is 'thief', which I think may better illustrate the connection with Prometheus as Levi states: "He is Prometheus subjected to everlasting torture as a punishment for his glorious theft;" Kwaw

The Thoughts on The Hanged Man thread was originally posted on 27 Mar 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.