What if you pull the cards first...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Mar 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	03 Mar 2005
What would happen if you pulled the cards, left them face down on the table, and then got the querant and asked the question? Has anyone done this experiment?

Phoenix Rising	03 Mar 2005
Hi Firemaiden, I haven't done that experiment, but was thinking a very simillar approach. The thought occurred when i read the thread on "psychic/telephone lines" I thought to save money for the client, with shuffling etc, to shuffle and lay out the cards before the client rang? But just have the intention "this is for the next client who rings" and I'm sure the same principle should work. In fact we should give it a try. So if you lay out a card for the next one who posts and see if it relates to them. And if it works, then i might go and try those telephone lines..hehe

tarotbear	03 Mar 2005
It's an interesting idea, to be sure ... but isn't that like having a 'Pre-fire sale' ? :confused:

tmgrl2	03 Mar 2005
tarotbear wrote: It's an interesting idea, to be sure ... but isn't that like having a 'Pre-fire sale' ? :confused: Only if it's a "torch job." I don't know about pulling the cards first and then getting the querent... I'm up to wanting to lay out the spread face down, instead of face up. Face down, I intend to turn up one at a time, speak, interact....tell querent, more will be said later as the other cards are turned and they interact... However, I don't see any reason, why one couldn't do this, if we feel there are no "wrong" cards and if we read the cards for "someone".....we do it online, they do it on the phone. I'm not even sure how things work when we do the reading in the more traditional ways... Time for another experiment??? So one of us sets out a spread, turns the cards, then asks for a sitter and a question? terri

jumptothemoonyea	03 Mar 2005
Interesting question. I think it does not matter what's first: question or cards, if past, present and future or any time concept is an illusion, and fate (which we can control, right? :)) have been defined regardless, then how do we know what was first anyway?

ros	03 Mar 2005
I feel in some ways this would work. If the cards have all our answers, the ones that are read is what we should focus on, then whomever is at the table for the next reading, that reading should have some kind of message for them. If it doesn't have a message for them or they are not looking, they won't be there for a reading! I don't feel it would work for people who like to pick their own cards. If this method is the way we choose to read, that's what they get!

scholar	03 Mar 2005
Hi, Interesting thread. Sometimes I have pulled and spread out the cards, and then asked the querent to ask the question. It has worked just the same. [an aside: i have noticed that whether i ask the person to ask before or after pulling out the cards depends on what i call my "tarot mood".] Whatever is on the querent's mind will come out in the cards irrespective of the question being asked or not. The other day, I was shuffling the cards, before my friend asked me the question on phone. While shuffling I dropped the Judgment card (Rider-Waite). I immediately asked my friend if he was looking for a drastic change in his life, and he replied that he was looking for a new job! So whether the question is asked before or after pulling out the cards doesn't really matter I think.

Dark Inquisitor	03 Mar 2005
Try this on yourself: Shuffle the deck , with the intention that the questions are "to be determined". Then ask your fist question and lay out 3 cards to read. Ask another question, and lay those 3 cards on top of the previous ones, until you have gone through the entire deck. I have found this can be very surprising and rather accurate. But whether the answers are predetermined, or whether one is psychically picking up what question to ask that best fits the next cards' answers , I can't say.

firemaiden	03 Mar 2005
Dark Inquisitor you have actually done this, then. That's really fun. I think it would be really fun for a change, I think it would add to the element of surprise. (It might also add to the element of me always thinking "these are the wrong cards", LOL)

tarotbear	03 Mar 2005
tmgrl2 wrote: Only if it's a "torch job." I don't know about pulling the cards first and then getting the querent... terri Wouldn't tahe be similar to you called the Amazing Kreskin's answering machine, and his message says ' You are so-and-so, and the question is about such-and-such' -- prerecorded because he knew you would call ?? LOL!!!

firemaiden	03 Mar 2005
Hahahah!! Weeeell, Tarotbear... it might be a little bit of testing the laws of synchronicity... I am tempted to try the experiment. :D

Keslynn	03 Mar 2005
Sounds like fun!!! I also believe that it would work because you'd get the cards you are meant to get no matter what. But let's test that out. I can't wait to get home and get my paws on my deck. :) Kes

The Dreamer	03 Mar 2005
So far I've only read for myself. One time, early in my experience with tarot, my brother came over when I was doing it and drew a card out and said "this card is going to be for your next question." In a few minutes I came up with a question and the card seemed just as appropriate as a card drawn after asking a question. He did that a few other times and it worked the same way. I never would have thought of doing that myself because at the time I assumed that one's intent was what caused the right card to be drawn- so, how could it work if you hadn't formed the intent before drawing? I've drawn the cards first and formed the question afterward many other times now in drawing for myself, and it has always worked so far. This raises questions about why and how tarot works. If it's really about the power of intent, this experiment does not necessarily preclude intent being a key factor- because, as mentioned before, there could be some time- independent phenomenon occurring. Maybe one's intent was actually preset in the future, and the card synched up with it because of that. The question is raised of what the future is, and whether and how it is preset. It could also just be a matter of psychically being able to know what the card which has not yet been turned over is, and then forming one's question to be in line with that card. Of course, some people view the accuracy of the cards which are drawn as something which exists only in the reader's mind. Based on my experience, I don't think that is true. So, for me, this phenomenon raises interesting questions about intent, synchronicity, psychic phenomena, and the the nature of the future.

tmgrl2	03 Mar 2005
tarotbear wrote: Wouldn't tahe be similar to you called the Amazing Kreskin's answering machine, and his message says ' You are so-and-so, and the question is about such-and-such' -- prerecorded because he knew you would call ?? LOL!!! tarotbear... Yes!! That's it! And the answer is: "A speeding ticket." Later, in walks the querent and says, "I'll bet you can't guess what happened to me on my over to your office?" All kidding aside...since I know firemaiden likes to pose these challenges.....Tarot reading is certainly a "mytifying" experience at times... I think that trying different ways of reading and maybe even laying out a spread first and getting the question later....would be interesting. I'm going to set out a five-card spread (my own..four of swords and Shield of Love) and then call a friend and ask for a question and use the cards I got...I won't turn them up to see them until I get the question... I know, I know...it's not someone I DON'T know to start with, but it's at least putting the cart before the horse a bit. Will report back on what happens. I love to think about these kinds of things...especially after the interlude at the Green Gargoyle Bar. terri

Inana	03 Mar 2005
Wasn't this experiment done time ago on the Reading Exchange Forum? I think someone did someone like this: pick up the cards and reserve them. Then look for a querent and gave him/her the reading. Although I can't remember who was and if it worked...

Dark Inquisitor	03 Mar 2005
Sometimes the tarot can anticipate things in strange ways. A couple of weeks ago, I was laying out some cards to see why I hadn't heard from my daughter, even though I had left messages for her . My question was : Am I going to hear from her soon? The tarot's answer was: Queen of Pentacles, Knight of Pentacles , 10 of Pentacles (And I use reversals, so those cards all upright were a good sign of something, just not the answer to the question I was asking.) As I was looking at it, the phone rang. It was my daughter .(She is the Queen of Pentacles ) She started telling me she hadn't called because she was too busy with work and the related stress. Her place of employment announced cutbacks and layoffs, yet was leaving everyone in suspense. I said," I already know your question , and the tarot has already answered it. You are not getting laid off . You might even get a raise with a position of increased responsibility . The worst that could happen is that you find a new job that will make you more money. So don't worry. " She is still working there, so we don't know the complete outcome yet. But I think the tarot just overrode what I had in my mind and moved right on into the future, very synchronistically.

firemaiden	04 Mar 2005
Ah, so some of you have actually done this! Dark Inquisitor, that was quite "synchonicitious" wasn't it! Well, if anyone has done the experiment since we last talked, why don't you share your results :)

SunChariot	05 Mar 2005
firemaiden wrote: What would happen if you pulled the cards, left them face down on the table, and then got the querant and asked the question? Has anyone done this experiment? Would be interested to see how this works if anyone tries it. But according to my understanding of sycronicity it would not work. I think the sycronicity theory says that the reason Tarot works is that when we ask a specific question and lay out the cards in a pattern, it mirrors the real life pattern of things in the universe. I would imagine asking the question first is part of this process(?) Bar

The Dreamer	05 Mar 2005
Well, as I mentioned before, it worked for me. I think mirroring as an explanation of synchronicity could still make sense regardless of whether the intent comes first or not. Also as mentioned before. You don't have to just imagine whether asking the question first has to be part of the process- you can test it, by trying it yourself. Then form your theories based on that. :)

Moongold	06 Mar 2005
Some years ago Diana did a reading for X. She posted it in the Exchange and said it would be appropriate for the first person who opened the thread. On one occasion it happened to be me. Yes. It the reading was quite accurate for my life at the time. I have oftened thought about this reading and the synchronicity of it. Would someone else also have found it accurate it they had stumbled upon it? I've wondered whether there are universal dimensions to our experience that could one person relate to a reading like that, particularly if she had lived a reasonable period of time. Today I had a reading from a new reader who was reading quite intuitively. Her reading was fresh and different. She picked up on some issues that belonged to my life of 20 years ago and presented them in a way that was quite relevant to the question I'd asked. Those matters were also very important and there was no way she could have known that. Sure she got the message from the cards and it was not detailed but it was quite significant. Her reading was very different from the other (very good) readings I'd had on the same question as part of a group activity we are doing. What made Diana's reading two years ago so accurate for me? What made this one person this afternoon hone in on a something quite critical to a decision I have to make reasonably soon? Is there a Source behind the Cards that directs the readings? ... So if you laid the cards out, firemaiden, this Source would ensure they were appropriate? Or is the question already in our minds and our desire to know an answer a driving force which causes us to find *meaning* in the cards before us, no matter what they are? Are we Questions looking intently for Answers? Hope that does not sound too arcane?

SunChariot	06 Mar 2005
Moongold wrote: Some years ago Diana did a reading for X. She posted it in the Exchange and said it would be appropriate for the first person who opened the thread. On one occasion it happened to be me. Yes. It the reading was quite accurate for my life at the time. I have oftened thought about this reading and the synchronicity of it. Would someone else also have found it accurate it they had stumbled upon it? I've wondered whether there are universal dimensions to our experience that could one person relate to a reading like that, particularly if she had lived a reasonable period of time. Today I had a reading from a new reader who was reading quite intuitively. Her reading was fresh and different. She picked up on some issues that belonged to my life of 20 years ago and presented them in a way that was quite relevant to the question I'd asked. Those matters were also very important and there was no way she could have known that. Sure she got the message from the cards and it was not detailed but it was quite significant. Her reading was very different from the other (very good) readings I'd had on the same question as part of a group activity we are doing. What made Diana's reading two years ago so accurate for me? What made this one person this afternoon hone in on a something quite critical to a decision I have to make reasonably soon? Is there a Source behind the Cards that directs the readings? ... So if you laid the cards out, firemaiden, this Source would ensure they were appropriate? Or is the question already in our minds and our desire to know an answer a driving force which causes us to find *meaning* in the cards before us, no matter what they are? Are we Questions looking intently for Answers? Hope that does not sound too arcane? I found your post both beautiful and fasinating. Doesn't sound too arcane to me.:-) Bar

The Dreamer	06 Mar 2005
I also often wonder whether there is a Source behind the cards. I tend to look for mundane explanations first, though. Are we Questions looking intently for Answers? I sure am. I'm very sure, though, that I am not just finding meaning in the cards which is not really there. I hope there is a Source. So far, it seems that whichever way I draw, it comes out right. Why, I don't know. I've come to have a sort of faith, which is based on experience, that whatever makes it come out right will continue to make it come out right.

jentayu	06 Mar 2005
firemaiden wrote: What would happen if you pulled the cards, left them face down on the table, and then got the querant and asked the question? Has anyone done this experiment? No, I haven't tried that before, since I usually use the Tarot for myself and sometimes for my sister and mom only.......... But, interesting though, I wanna try it, wanna see what the outcomes will be, if I use this unique way :) Jentayu

SunChariot	06 Mar 2005
The Dreamer wrote: I also often wonder whether there is a Source behind the cards. I tend to look for mundane explanations first, though. Are we Questions looking intently for Answers? I sure am. I'm very sure, though, that I am not just finding meaning in the cards which is not really there. I hope there is a Source. So far, it seems that whichever way I draw, it comes out right. Why, I don't know. I've come to have a sort of faith, which is based on experience, that whatever makes it come out right will continue to make it come out right. I would have to agree with all this. As for a Source, I personally think the anwers are coming from G-d (call it the universe or a higher intelligence if you want, to me it's all the same thing). Of course if we are questions looking intently for answers, then the question exists before we lay out the cards, even if we have not yet put it into words. The question is out there in the universe and the cards can pick up in it when they are laid out. And/or the universe will realize that we are looking for guidance if we pick up the cards and it will tell us what we most need to know at the time. Bar

firemaiden	06 Mar 2005
Well... I've done the proposed experiment :D :D See Five Cards Seeking a Victim

The What if you pull the cards first... thread was originally posted on 03 Mar 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.