5 of swords - failure or success on other peoples expense???

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Chubby Mummy	15 Apr 2005
I was looking at my hanson roberts five of swords yesterday and it hit me that although the book says the usual "failure" to me it looked like success. So in the past where ive asked a question, will i succeed in, say, for example, get that great job/promotion im after...where i thought, no 5/swords definitly means failure, now to me its a definite yes, you will get that job offer/promotion, but other people will be squashed by you and while you sneer at them, they will walk away in the sunset, vey sad and humiliated for even trying to compete with you. It also tells me that you will get that job/promotion but you dont realise how many people you're upsetting by doing so. Has anyone ever had an experience with this card where theyve read it as failure, but actually turned out success on other peoples expense?? xxx cm

Deana	15 Apr 2005
I've never, never been able to read that card as "failure". Never. I mean, I've simply never identified with people far off in the background instead of right there in the foreground (is this the only card where you're "supposed to" identify with someone other than the main character?). I've always identified with the guy right there gloating about his victory and taken it to mean victory that will reveal the uglier side to your personality (or at least the side that would gloat).

Fulgour	15 Apr 2005
[font=papyrus] [color=red] [b] bloodless victory[/font][/color][/b] Oh sure the farthest away guy is hanging his head crying, and the middle distant figure seems to stagger wandering, but look at the man standing there with five noble swords! He has relieved the trouble makers of their disruptive tools and restored some order ~ come back when you're serious, he seems to say. Well he should be smiling on this fine day: he's won a bloodless victory. Yes he smiles: he's done good! http://www.learntarot.com/bigjpgs/swords05.jpg click on to view the Colman Smith 5 of Swords

DarkElectric	15 Apr 2005
The 5 of swords always makes me a mite apprehensive when it comes up in a reading, I must admit! I like what Fulgour said about bloodless victory, but the question I always ask is...who's victory? It's true, someone's gain may also be someone's loss, especially in employment situations, where competition may be fierce, and candidates vying for position may be in various stages of financial need. But then again, competition seems to be a natural law. We human animals have tried to introduce fairness and decency into the process, which I find commendable. And this is why we feel badly when our gain may be someone else's loss, even though we have bills to pay just like the other person. It's all a question of "Which end of the sword are you on" I guess. And yes, this card has come up in readings I've done and sometimes turns out to be exactly that: Gain at someone else's expense. But also, it can be someone who is concerned about their gain being the loss of someone else, and worrying about it excessively, thus becoming preoccupied with that idea to the point where the person is frightened to progress because such a thing "might" happen.

Fulgour	15 Apr 2005
I also see this card as representing "autonomy versus authority" where it may be that some unpopular choices must be made, and we can no longer be just one of the guys, because in order to shoulder the burdens of a responsibility, we must respect a higher standard of behaviour, and have the courage to stand our ground.

MercyMe	15 Apr 2005
I've read it to mean "dishonorable victory." In order to succeed you're going to have to step on someone's toes. This doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't go for it, just that it might be messy and you may need to smooth some ruffled feathers or kiss some unintended boo-boos on the way. It tends to be a caution sign for me saying, "Think long and hard before you do this, weigh the advantages against the possible harm that will inevitably happen as a result." While we'd like to think we can go through life without ever harming anyone ever, it's not possible. But the collateral damage should always be considered beforehand, if possible. ~Mercy

The 5 of swords - failure or success on other peoples expense??? thread was originally posted on 15 Apr 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.