Can I paint a copy?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Rosanne	21 Apr 2005
I guess this is where to post this question. I would like to know the following. If you knew someones favourite card and wanted to give them a present; could one paint it ? Enlarge it and copy it that is? Would it be a question of copyright? I would like to do that for someone and I don't know if that is a OK thing to do? It would be just one card on a canvas. The original Artist is dead. ~Rosanne

jmd	21 Apr 2005
Why not? You are painting it for private reasons, and giving it as a gift. With regards to copyright, it should also be noted that for some decks it is not the image made by a long-dead designer or painter that may be copy-righted, but the title of the deck.

Rosanne	21 Apr 2005
Thank you jmd. It has been pointed out to me that I could add a small difference, but that is not the point. I think I could paint a reasonable forgery. I did not know about the 'title' copyright.

Grizabella	21 Apr 2005
As long as you don't try to absolutely duplicate it and pass it off as an original by the real creator, you're not violating copyright. If you paint it and put your own name on it as a gift, that's not violating it. If you were to try to pass it off as the original artist's work or trying to make people believe it was your own original creation for money, that violates it. Make a slight change to it, put your own name on it, and it will make a fine gift for a friend.

Little Baron	21 Apr 2005
What a lovely gift idea - wish you were my friend! :) I can't think of any reason why you cannot do this - unless of course, the 'tarot police' raid your mates house at midnight and discover the painting! Sounds like a great and personal idea for a present - you'll have to post a picture for us to see when you have finished. LB

tarotbear	21 Apr 2005
Can you paint a copy? yes. ONE copy. Whether the artist is dead or alive makes no difference. Try using an image of Monroe or Elvis without the permission of the lawyers who run their estates! Forget using a Disney or a Henson Image... they may be dead but their corporations aren't! "Making a small change' or even three of them -- if you get hauled into court: good luck. Although artists have brought suit and lost to the person who copied their image .. it all comes down to money. Above my desk are enlarged images of my Life Cards from the Robin Wood deck. They were given to me as a birthday gift by a wonderful close friend. No violation there. BUT ~ should I decide to create a service where I calculate your Life cards and make you images from your favorite deck (suitable for framing) ... someone else's work + money exchanging hands = copyright violation. If you chose to make postacrds of the re-imaging you did and sell them -- copyright violation - no matter how many changes you make. Unless you can prove that you didn't use someone else's image, it is not an original work. Did you know that taking a book into a copy center and copying a few pages is actually a violation? All Rights Reserved is a shortened version of 'the contents of this book are copyrighted by so-and-so publishers, and copying any part of this book in whole or in part without permission of the publishers is against the law.' Many copy places have placards to this effect - mostly to protect their own butts. You pay them to use the machines to copy someone else's work ~ money exchanging hands! I bought the rights to the RWS images for use in my book. When I walked into the copy center to make a copy of the Giant RWS for my publisher to use, I made sure I had the letter giving me permission to do so with me!

Rosanne	21 Apr 2005
Thank you all for your responses. TarotBear, I was very pleased to have that specific copright issue. I often go to the library and have stuff xeroxed by the staff-pictures,text etc. Never Had a problem. At the Copy Centre, it has been different, especially with Needlework charts. I have always had a copy so I could mark the chart etc. The Copy Centre usually will not do that, but the Library will. I do not copy my purchased charts for any else. I now have a good idea where I stand.~Rosanne

zorya	21 Apr 2005
long long ago, back in my art school days, we were encouraged to copy the masters. even some of the museums allowed us to copy directly from their works. but it was required, by the school and museums, they never be copied in the same size. also that there be no profit made on the copy. don't know how that translates into copyright law though.

rainwolf	21 Apr 2005
Would your friend turn you in? I agree to take the title off, but the rest sounds fine...only one copy, out of 78 cards.

tarotbear	22 Apr 2005
You see, people will argue that owning a copier (what else would you be doing with it? Flattening pie crust?) automatically gives you the right to use it. This same arguement popped up when VCR became popular and TV stations said that taping a movie was illegal - buying a machine to do 'just that' is not! But - copying your favorite TV show to watch later and making copies of a movie to bootleg on the corner are two different things -- money exchanging hands. Yes, copy shops like Kinkos and Staples may give you a hassle to copy pages from a book - a book is copyrighted stuff. The library may not because diseminating (is that the correct word?) information to the public is what they are there for. Copying something in your college library probably is not illegal, either. An example is Seurat's painting 'Sunday on the isle of Grand Jete.' Seurat has been dead over 100 years and he did not sell the painting to the Chicago Institute of Art, but they did buy it legitimately and own it. The image is world-famous and very distinctive. Merely taking it and changing three of the ladies hats ('making some changes') is not going to fly in court. I have a version of it in counted cross stitch (isn't that a great idea?). The company that made the kit did not merely take a copy of the painting and transcribe it into stitches ... they had to pay a royalty to the CAI for permission to use it. You may argue that there are images of the RWS on the internet from before US Games Systems bought the rights to the images, therefore you should use them and not pay anything to US Games. Technically, US Games owns the images (for the next few years, anyway), so it does not matter if the image you are ripping off is from 1910 or 2001 - the images are legitimately owned by someone. I paid $250 for the rights to use the RWS images in and on my book. When you say 'Well, I'll just make a few changes,' you are realistically saying "I am going to steal someone else's work and rip them off." Is that fair, ethical, or even moral? :smoker:

The Can I paint a copy? thread was originally posted on 21 Apr 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.