Death vs Wheel

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

vix	14 Apr 2005
Look for some insight into what others think on Death and the Wheel. I know that death typically carries the meaning of the end of one thing and the begining of another. It also seems to carry "darker" points. I know in one deck I have the author of the companion book says Death can be metamorphosis. The Wheel, is also said to be metamorphosis and also carries an image beginning of end. I've created my own image of what the cards are like but was wondering what others though of the cards. Are the meanings of metamorphosis and beginning of one thing and start of another the same for both cards or are the different? To me, I've always seen the Wheels change as beeing a "morph" from one state to another. Somewhat like a blog that moves and changes shape and color but never loses it's "totalness." Theres a flow between one state to the next. Death though is more like the blog crumbling away and then rising out of its own death into a new state, not so majesti or smooth. I'm aware theres more to the two cards though than just these two points. Never have been able to see the Death as positive though... -Vix

muteswan	14 Apr 2005
I think your point about the difference in the transition is. Just as the Tower can be change, but in a terribly violent way. Also, the Death card is an inevitable change that must come, but the Wheel has your input to change and control the way things spin.

tarotbear	15 Apr 2005
The Tower can be seen as 'sudden, drastic' change. The change will be drastic, but the aftermath can be good or bad depending on the reasons or need for the change. The Death card can be seen as 'permanent, lasting' change, but need not be violent change, however. The Wheel, however, keeps turning and is 'constant' change. In a cycle or a spiral, can it actually be called 'change'? You just keep moving in a circle.

Emeraldgirl	15 Apr 2005
I actually feel that The Wheel is more smaller change based than Death. Death is inevitable drastic change where as The Wheel seems to be more of a ................. well a wheel turning and turning and turning over and over. The Tower for me is usually a warning card heralding a sharp sudden violent change in your life.

vix	15 Apr 2005
Thanks for the input. I had never considered the speed of the change involved as you put it tarotbear. I also never considered whether the change involved with the cards permanent or lasting. I'd always considered that Death was similar in lasting effect as the Wheel or Tower. Thanks for the replies, it's made me think about the cards more in a way I had never considered ^^. Wait to see if anyone says anything else :).

Inana	15 Apr 2005
I agree with what has been said before. Just want to add the Wheel can be considered like an oportunity you are offered to make a change, you have options to take it or not. This option doesn't exist with Death or the Tower, where the change just is. You can't stop it or do nothing until the current situation is finished. With the wheel you are in a more initial point, and you have to enter the play and gamble if you desire any kind of change. Another difference, is the wheel usually comes for an external source (the oportunity isn't caused by us, we just take it or refuse it) and so does the tower most of the times (but we can't chose here). Death is more from an interior source, if you know what i mean.

temperlyne	15 Apr 2005
To me, the wheel is about a change in the surroundings opposed to the internal change of death. I usually see the wheel more as coincidence/devine intervention/chance, a change in the usual order of things.Things continue to shift within the order and this ofeten has effects on the person involved.

tarotbear	15 Apr 2005
'Death' can be a very slow change .. it will happen no matter what you want to do, and if it is a slow change it will give you some time to think about how you will react to it. The Tower ZAPS in and knocks your sox off! Both of these cards are very positive in the hands of the correct reader; it is only their images that turn people off.

Chronata	15 Apr 2005
The differences between the Wheel and Death...both indicate change...and as I have portrayed both of these archetypes at a tarot handfasting, I had to throw my two cents in! :D For me, Death indicates a change that is permenant. It can be totally shake up your life, and leave you in a state that is completely different from how you have lived before. This isn't always negative...as death can realte to anything that gives you a completely new way of looking at things. A move to another state, a new baby, a different carreer path...or a new spiritual path...all of these can be a death to the old way of doing, being and thinking. So can the death or arrest of someone close to you, a break up of a relationship, a divorce of parents, or best friends. These too challenge you to think in new ways, and change the way you live. The thing with Death...is that it happens often whether we are ready for it or not, and brings us into the next stage of life.Sometimes it's so sudden we can't forsee it comming. Now the wheel...the Wheel is the daily changes, the roller coaster ride, the ups and downs of life. Somethimes you get lucky and win money, and other times you are so broke you can't make rent. Changes that seem to go in a cycle...changes that you can often predict. These are the things like car troubles mixed with taxes owed mixed with stupid head cold...that feeling of..."when it rains it pours." It's also that lucky feeling when it's your birthday, and everything seems to be falling into place, luck, money, happiness synchronicity....both these good things and bad things won't last. The idea of "this too shall pass" equates well with the wheel. Both Death and Wheel represent change...but only Death is the changes we grow from. the Wheel may turn and fortunes may change...but do we ever really learn from it?

hoomer	15 Apr 2005
WG Gray places the Wheel as one of the 3 wheels upon the tree of life(fortune, justice and judgement).....he places it between the 8th and 7th spheres....a place where the enrgies of "intelect" (mercury...hermes...8th sphere...honour) and "emotion" (venus..7th sphere....Victory).....SO we see as people have said kinda.....that the wheel can be seen as mundane everyday change...constant change within one's life....constantly turning...as basic as needing to "change your underwear"....essentially..... If we consider mercurial energy as male seeking female...and venusian energy as female seeking male...we see that Fortune is a card of change to enable balance...and harmony.....(hermes plus APhrodite =Hermaphrodite)....as balance and imbalnce and the constant shift of...is a pretty basic thing that is constantly occuring on all levels.... Gray places Death between the 5th sphere and the 3rd sphere......a place where we have strong restricting and destructive feminine energies......Mars at the 5th sphere is often called Severity...the great ravager..the destroyer.... Saturn at the 3rd sphere is the All mother...."Understanding"...She is like the vessel of communication....like a telephone....we need a telephone in order to listen to telephone conversations....."Understanding" is the telephone itself... So we see Death is a card of restrictive destructive...and changing energies...a strongly feminine card...the cruel mother...who can give life and take it away.... Binah (the 3rd SPhere) Is often associated with water...the energy of water is cleansing and of sex......so we can see you can drown in the ocean that is Death...or you can become reborn...from the womb of the mother......the 5th sphere...dispite being called Severity can also be positive....yes the obivus view is...its a destructive energy......but its always good to remeber....too much of a good thing is often bad..... hope this helps a little...... on a further note...all the trump cards can be seen as cosmic energies.....which as cosmic energies..are hardly small in focus.... "God is thus not to be looked at, but loved and enterd into union with. Loved and Lover must become one." --W G Gray (The Ladder of the LIghts)..

Niomi	15 Apr 2005
I find Death is a change in your way of thinking which leads to a change in lifestyle. The Wheel is a more superficial change, but still an important one. Perhaps a new hobby, new friends, or an unexpected twist.

vix	15 Apr 2005
:) Thanks for even more input. Lots of stuff to think about.

The Death vs Wheel thread was originally posted on 14 Apr 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.