How many different "systems" do you use?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

IDN	10 Apr 2005
Are you strictly a RWS person? How about Marseille or Thoth? Can you / do you switch easily between them? Do you use a totally different approach for each? The reason I ask is that my small collection consists of: Original RWS Cosmic Haindl Thoth and Marseille (Hadar) Not planning on getting any more decks, BUT would love to (one day) read with ALL of them equally well. Can it be done? Many thanks in advance for all comments and input Take care, Regards, Ian

Nina*	10 Apr 2005
Hi Ian I believe it can be done; the same way you read different languages... but I admit it is difficult at times (I still 'see' those RWS-pictures no matter what deck I use). And yes, I also believe that the approach for a Tarot of Marseilles is very different than for both RWS and Thoth. :) Nina

Ahria	10 Apr 2005
I cant say I really follow a system, I tend to look at the card and let it tell me a story.

catti	10 Apr 2005
I can read RWS and Marseille style with relative fluidity....meaning I do and can switch back and forth. Both styles "speak" to me in the language of intuition...I have difficulty with Thoth and clones...because i "know" that so much has "meaning" I am always second guessing myself and wondering if the correspondence is correct and what does this "thingy" represent and is this relating to astrology and.....endless...@@.....if I can get over it I can read with all 3 but now I "think" the Thoth decks too much. catti

bleuivy	10 Apr 2005
I would tend to agree with what others have already said. I've read with the Thoth, and while I enjoyed it at the time, I've stopped reading with it. I just lost my enjoyment for it; not really sure why. While I was reading with the Thoth, I was also reading with the RWS and a non-illustrated pip deck based on the TdM. While I was able to switch between the three systems, I found it the most idfficult to do the TdM switch. (I was just beginning at the time, so I think the three systems confused me, though it was a lot of fun to switch between them.) Now, I read almost exclusively with RWS decks. Even when I'm reading with a deck that's based on the RWS, but has somewhat different card meansings, like the Fey, I find myself seeing the RWS cards in my head, which tends to get in the way of whatever the other deck is trying to tell me. I'm working on it, though. Mostly, I think it takes lots of practice. And, seeing as you're on AT, you're probably very willing to put in the time. :)

Emily	10 Apr 2005
I'm influenced by the RWS symbolism - I find that I like decks that follow RWS. I tend to use clone decks - Morgan Greer, Spiral, DruidCraft - all decks that have different artwork to the Rider Waite but still the symbolism. I like the Thoth but struggle with it. Marseilles decks I would love to learn how to read but I like illustrated Minors, I have learned a little about numerology when trying to learn how to read with a Marseille but I need a picture to focus on, and not just pip cards. I suppose what it boils down to is I'm comfortable with the RWS symbolism and the various styles of artwork that comes with clone decks and don't feel the need to learn another system now.

Gwynne	10 Apr 2005
I read primarily with either RWS and clones or the Thoth and other similar decks. The Quest I find sort of blends the two, with some influence from RWS on the Majors and the Minors are not illustrated. It also used keywords, like the Thoth, which annoys me at times. I chopped the borders off my Thoth, but that would just kill the Quest because the borders aren't uniform.... Just stole the Tarot of Northern Shadows from my husband which is based in RWS symbolism.... LOVE it.... :lol: The Thoth I don't ever use when reading for other people. Don't know why... just won't let me. I use the Housewives and the Quest when reading for clients, thought now that I've stolen all hubbies decks from him (well... he gave them to me as he has an awful time reading Tarot and is trying to concentrate on scrying at the moment...) I'm sure I'll be bouncing back and forth between decks. I've read with one Marseilles style deck, it was a friends and she wanted me to use it to read for her, and I did ok, not as good as I would have liked, but I could read with it. The pip cards threw me for a good one, but I just used Numerology, and got through it... I also found myself "remembering" the RWS symbolism for it.... The only thing that really throws me off with a deck is the Swords/Wands, Air/Fire switch. I HAVE to have a deck that has Swords=Air and Wands=Fire or I quite simply cannot read with it. Hubby has the Celtic Dragon Tarot. Beautiful cards, but it pulls that elemental switcheroo on me and completely throws me off... Told him he could keep it... Same with the Nigel Jackson... couldn't read with it because of the elemental associations so I traded it away....

Cerulean	10 Apr 2005
A modern Italian deck, the Crystals (Lo Scarabeo) reads differently than the Visconti reproductions, either the Visconti Gold (that has a book and booklet) or other published versions of Visconti--if you follow different style publishing instructions. I haven't mastered the Etteilla decks, just followed one or two 'Egyptian' style derivatives in modern reprints. I probably should read the French style decks...but have found switching from older Italian styles and Thoth/Rider Waite and modern decks quite engaging enough. I read my Japanese and Chinese decks without understanding the meaning of the pictograms, I have only been able to sometimes decipher the suit or court through odd experimentation. So yes, you can read different styles and keep learning...chances are, you will find a main reading style that goes well with a certain deck...and it will feel very nice as long as you like it. Cerulean

Cerulean	10 Apr 2005
Original RWS - one style Haindl and Thoth can sometimes to me in terms of flavors of meanings...six of swords might be different variations of defining "Science?" But the paintings are cultural diverse in the Haindl in a more modern sense, so probably you do catch a different feel in your readings... Which Cosmic? Cosmic Tribe by S. Postman, the collage deck, or the art deck of old movie stars by Norman Losche? Both are very interesting decks, I didn't keep them though. Marseille (Hadar) - A nice modern Marseilles reproduction, very handsome colors--the website seems great to give lessons to users. Fun choices... Cerulean

bassetized	10 Apr 2005
I am best with RWS and RWS-influenced decks, and with some decks that have their own symbolism (Tarot of the Clone, Shining Tribe). I do pretty well with some of the Golden Dawn decks and those influenced by them. I have a Thoth but use it mostly for study; I do better with the Golden Dawn Magical Tarot, and best with the Cosmic Tribe, which seems to be more GD-influenced (to me at least). I have a TdM but can't read with it at all. --bassetized

Fudugazi	11 Apr 2005
Hi Ian, I learnt with RWS, like most people here. After a couple of years I learnt Thoth (with Crowley's book - weird and rather disturbing experience, but gave me very deep readings); I also acquired the Mythic deck, which is different, myths-based, but I was familiar with Greek myths anyway; I now also work with the Tarot de Marseille and do not relate it back to the other systems I know (which does not mean I never get the same interpretation!). In the past couple of months I have acquired three Spanish decks (the Crytal Tarot, El Gran Tarot Esoterico and Tarot Balbi) which are completely different from the other three I have mentioned - suits attribution, astrological correspondence, Kabbalah correspondence - the starting point in El Gran Tarot Esoterico, the mother of the other two, being the Gra Sefer Yetzirah. And the three also owe something to Papus in the attribution of the minors, as Cerulean has shown in another thread. Well, how do I switch from one to the other? - Firstly, as I might from one language to another. I do not speak Spanish trying to speak English, or English trying to speak French, of French trying to speak Swahili. - Secondly, I work with symbols and images as they present themselves before me. This is particularly important during a reading. As Umbrae and Terri repeat over and over, a reading is an event between two people, discreet in itself. Cards are a support to that event - they are not the event. If you are too locked into a system, you miss the event. - Thirdly, if you use cards as initiation, then you can see the different levels and thresholds, each in their own path. You might prefer only one path, or you might think that your own personal path goes through thresholds that bridges systems (that is my case). - Last - and not least - Tarot is also meant to be fun, not a school exercise - all you need is goodwill. If you go into a bread-shop in France and speak only English, no-one will understand. Likewise if you try and paste RWS or Thoth onto Marseille, or vice-versa. If you make an effort to speak a bit of French they'll come out of their way to help you. And it really depends how deep is your desire to speak a language fluently and your motivation (to buy bread, or to read its literature or because you've fallen in love with a French girl) - you choose. Your own commitment is all that matters. Bonne chance!

firemaiden	11 Apr 2005
My first deck was the Thoth so that tends to be my point of reference, but I use every deck any which way I please. I respond to the imagery, to the number and suit, to the traditional clichéd RWS meanings, to the coincidences between the cards, to odd images I "scry" in the patterns of the card (e.g. the 7 of deniers as a "teddy bear") etc, to verbal puns suggested by the images, etc. There are no rules.

Eco74	11 Apr 2005
I feel I can switch between systems with not too much effort. Mainly this is because I tend to go with Intuition first and science after, which allows me to respond to the image and see what stands out and then delve into whatever science applies - be it numerology, symbology, religious meanings, coloranalyses or whatever else applies at the time. Sometimes while I "know" in my mind that a particular suit is related to a particular season, something in the image can stand out and scream a different season for this particular reading. Other times while a certain number has a certain meaning, sometimes the number is not relevant, but some other combination of colors, positioning of the items on the card etc. holds the key to reading the card for the particular instance. Something I do unquestionably need to be able to read the cards is art that resonates in my mind, something about the style or feel that tunes my mind to what the cards are saying, something about them that allows my mind to see the message. It has less to do with the designated system than it has to do with the style and feel of the art. And since this differs from time to time I find having several different styled decks to choose from a very good thing indeed. If I did not, I would simply have to sit back and wait til my mind was attuned with the particular style of the cards again, and for me, that just would not do..

Fudugazi	11 Apr 2005
Eco74 wrote: Sometimes while I "know" in my mind that a particular suit is related to a particular season, something in the image can stand out and scream a different season for this particular reading. Other times while a certain number has a certain meaning, sometimes the number is not relevant, but some other combination of colors, positioning of the items on the card etc. holds the key to reading the card for the particular instance. I do the same. For instance, the other day I was doing a reading with the DruidCraft. Now, most of the imagery shows, and the books says, that Cups go with Autumn and Swords with Spring. But I drew the Six of Cups, and saw children playing on new grass, and it just said Spring to me. It fitted well in the rest of the reading, so I went with that. Likewise with the Marseile, sometimes the way a petal is folded around a coin or a cup is more important than the number - and sometimes not. Firemaiden - I have noticed your scrying and it's enouraged me in a new way of looking at cards (I was new to unscenic pip cards until a few months ago, and so I love to experiment). I still remember your Indian dancer in the III de Deniers....:D

spoonbender	11 Apr 2005
I only use the Tarot of Marseilles as a TAROT deck. I just don't think of the RWS as Tarot anymore - there have been waaay too many changes for it be called that way. But even though I think the Tarot of Marseilles is the only TRUE Tarot, I still have quite a lot of other decks in my collection that call themselves Tarot, but that I think of as divination/oracle decks. I always let the image speak for itself - I try not to think about what books say about them, or what the cards are supposed to mean. And by the way, the Tarot of Marseilles minor arcana is NOT "unillustrated" - it is nonscenic. Just look at the 2 of Cups or the 10 of Batons in the Hadar! Yes, some of the cards may be harder to interpret than others (as in every deck), but they usually give quite a distinct feeling. And the foliage and suit symbols are always essential to the interpretation. Spoon

psychic sue	11 Apr 2005
I started with Swiss 1JJ but I don't use that anymore - I feel like it's "done its job". Now I use RWS occasionally, but mainly the Morgan Greer, which I love. I can't say my readings are better with one deck than with another. I just like the artwork on MG and I feel "comfortable" with it. Sue x

SunChariot	13 Apr 2005
Ahria wrote: I cant say I really follow a system, I tend to look at the card and let it tell me a story. That's the way I do it too and it has worked wonderfully for me since I started. Letting the card and its symbolism tell me it's story. And somehow the same card never really has the same meaing twice depending on the question and what the card wants to tell me on a particular day. Doing it this way means this method of reading is easily applicable to any deck. That is not to say that the story that one deck has to tell me will be similar to the one another would tell me. Each does have its own unique messages and personality, just that this method works easily with any deck. Bar

Requiella	13 Apr 2005
Thus far I've only learned the RWS system, and variations on this theme. The deck I read with is a RWS-inspired deck (the Spiral). Even though there's a Thoth deck in the house (it belongs to my SO), it really doesn't appeal to me. Of course, I'll admit that I have yet to take the time to really delve into the Thoth system; I'm planning to do that eventually. Regardless of how many systems I end up learning, I have a feeling that I'll end up being fairly "monogamous" eventually, only using one system for readings. The others will satisfy academic curiosity, or perhaps add another layer of meaning onto what I'm already doing (or not--the language analogy that others have used here implies that each system is more or less a system unto itself).

The How many different "systems" do you use? thread was originally posted on 10 Apr 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.