Old English Tarot's pips? Help!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Citrin	18 Apr 2005
I'm considering buying this deck because the majors are SO pretty and I just like the overall vibe of it... But I'm worried, because I read with Goddess and Rider Waite right now, so how would I handle the pips? They don't have any illustrations, besides small images on the bottom, and I don't really get how they have something to do with the cards...=/ So my question is how I would read without the usual images I'm so used to? Is memorizing the card meanings (I go mostly by intuition) a good idea? I'm grateful for any help, I'm really interested in this deck! This is what they look like.

WolfyJames	18 Apr 2005
Shalot here wrote a webpage on the Old English after studying the deck and trying to decipher the pips. http://home.earthlink.net/~e.ishmael/oldenglishtarot/

Citrin	18 Apr 2005
Thank you! I just skimmed through it and it looks really good. I need to think a bit more though, I'm not that interested in England's medieval symbols... Could be worth the studying though, the deck looks so nice. Anyway, thank you, I'm gonna save it for when I have more time. =)

Scion	18 Apr 2005
Hey Citrin, I have to say... I used to be very skittish about reading with "pip" decks, but recently I've pitched over the edge in a big way. The Old English is a beautiful place to start if you have curiosity about less-literal sceniuc depiction in your minors, and actually those little illustrations are much more useful than you might imagine. So in a way they might be a transitional deck to the more euro-centered TdM tradition. There's not a lot in English bookwise about reading "pip" decks, but I'd recommend Gail Fairfield's Choice Centered Tarot or Choice Centered Relating and the Tarot because she uses numerology to arrive at a framework with which to understand the cards, and even if you disagree with her it would give you a starting point for your own exploration. To quote André Gide, "One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time." Best Scion

Citrin	18 Apr 2005
I actually agree with you a lot there. =) I'm very interested in tarot; reading, history, others' interpretations etc etc... It's just that I started studying and reading a little less than a year ago, so I'm a newbie! I'm just a bit scared of already trying out Marseille-kinds of decks, I'm still pulling my hair sometimes when court cards show up in my readings. Hehe. I might check out numerology though, it seems interesting.

Scion	18 Apr 2005
I hear you, but fear not! You know more than you think you know. Also, if you go to the Tarot books section here and search for numerology you'll pull up a plethora of options. Fairfield is only one author among many who focus on numbers in relation to Tarot... Helvetica could probably help you here. (Sophie! Where are you?) The thing with TdM is, it's like parachuting: the fear is only with you til you jump. You're very likely to surprise yourself. And after all, it's only cards. But the Old English is a midpoint of sorts, those little semi-illustrated minors might warm you up to the idea of full-on Conver or Noblet pip minors. And then the whole beautiful gourd opens itself to you, pips and all... :) Scion

Citrin	18 Apr 2005
Yes, I think the Old English Tarot might be a good start. =) The thing is that I think the real Marseille cards look so... So ugly! (Sorry hehe)... But I'm definitely considering buying this one, and then we'll see where it takes me.

Hermgirl	18 Apr 2005
I am also heavily considering the Old English deck. I have been feeling very drawn to it, and feel that it is one of the more underated decks. I also feel that a deck with non-illustrated pips might get me to depend more on a card's qabalistic significance, rather than just the suggestion a picture can give me.

WolfyJames	18 Apr 2005
Citrin wrote: The thing is that I think the real Marseille cards look so... So ugly! (Sorry hehe)... I used to think so as well, I saw a Tarot de Marseille when I was a child and it traumatized me so much I avoided tarot decks for a decade. But the deck that has warmed to the Tarot de Marseille is the Tarot de Marseille Fournier: http://trionfi.com/01/j/i/gambler_ru/d00157.htm

Umbrae	18 Apr 2005
It’s a wonderful deck. Read with it…it’s sweeeet.

Moongold	18 Apr 2005
I agree with Umbrae ~ It's a beautiful deck and a good beginning to reading with Marseille like pips. I got so used to reading without the illustrations that I just can't look at them now. I never really thought they were related to the pips anyway :( . Sorry Shalott!

Citrin	19 Apr 2005
Hmm that Fournier one isn't looking too bad actually. But why does the high priestess have a moustache?! :o I don't get the images on the suit of cups lol little instruments... Aaaah so pretty though! What to do, what to do...

WolfyJames	19 Apr 2005
Citrin wrote: Hmm that Fournier one isn't looking too bad actually. But why does the high priestess have a moustache?! :o Yeah, the Fournier does look good and many like me who had issues with Tarot de Marseille got this one and fell in love with it, and some later got other Tarot de Marseille decks because they got hooked. By the way, it's not a moustache but the shadow of her upper lip.

Fudugazi	19 Apr 2005
Citrin wrote: The thing is that I think the real Marseille cards look so... So ugly! (Sorry hehe)... But I'm definitely considering buying this one, and then we'll see where it takes me. Oh man, you are waiting to be converted. Ugly???????????? Let me weep :( Have a look at the Rodes-Sanchez, or the Hadar, versions of the Marseille. Have a look at M. Flornoy's beautiful re-painting of Jean Dodal and Jean Noblet's Tarot de Marseille. (the latter at http://www.letarot.com) And they read like a dream...

The Old English Tarot's pips? Help! thread was originally posted on 18 Apr 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.