Two of Cups - romantic love or greater self love?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Enchanted	08 Apr 2005
Hi all I would like to hear others opinions on this card. For me the two of cups always conjures up images of romantic love, but then again I have RWS and Gilded deck, both support this image. I have read that the two of cups can symbolise the need for greater self love. ie: In order to love others you must learn to love yourself first, but I don't really get this from the images on the decks I have. At a stretch I could maybe see it in terms of 'embracing' masculine and feminine, but at a stretch! I wondered if anyone had a deck that supported the idea of greater self love with the two of cups? Or any opinions, two of cups romantic love or self love?

huredriel	08 Apr 2005
Hi Enchanted, Sometimes I think of this card as meaning a self-integration, bringing two halves of yourself together, especially if someone is working on inner issues or their shadow card. Just a thought, even if it doesn't help. x Huredriel

Fudugazi	08 Apr 2005
It symbolises both. You can't find romantic love if you have no self-love, but loving and being loved by another sure helps giving love to oneself! It symbolises the balance you reach internally and externally, the gestation of new feelings - internal and external. Everything that we are inside is mirrored on the outside - and vice-versa. It is, more than any other card in the Tarot, a card of mirrors.

Enchanted	08 Apr 2005
[quote=Helvetica]loving and being loved by another sure helps giving love to oneself!QUOTE] I hear ya! Do you mean by 'mirrors' that you get what you give? (BTW: Like the new avatar and line Helvetica!) Not to sound like a total dufus much!! :laugh: And not stray too far off the subject But what is the shadow card, Huredriel? I ask this question as I get the two of cups a lot for a single daily draw, which makes it hard to interpretate as their are no surrounding cards to 'bounce' off.

Fudugazi	08 Apr 2005
Enchanted wrote: Do you mean by 'mirrors' that you get what you give? (BTW: Like the new avatar and line Helvetica!). Thanks;) Well, at the simplest level, yes, it can mean that. But at a deeper level it can mean that when you feel something inside you - you will see it played outside you in one way or another; and when you see or experience something in the outer world, it will be mirrored - in the case of the cups, emotionally - inside you. It is not so much a cause-and-effect relationship as a reflection (next time you are in front of a mirror give it some thought - move something and you will see what I mean). But it goes beyond that: when you love another truly - and love yourself truly - then you are able to pass "through the looking-glass" into the strangeness of the other side - the other person, the side of yourself that was unknown and unloved. It's difficult to explain otherwise than in metaphors - but when experienced it is a very powerful event. It is the true meeting of two (two separate parts of you; two separate people) that can eventually create a third entity - represented by the number three in your suit sequence, which is the addition of 1 (you) and two (you and another) - that is why we call it the number of expansion, synthesis and creativity (in the 3 of Cups we see it played out as emotional expansion, a party, etc - but one can have internal emotional expansions - inner parties).

huredriel	08 Apr 2005
Enchanted wrote: Not to sound like a total dufus much!! :laugh: And not stray too far off the subject But what is the shadow card, Huredriel? When you work out your soul and personality card, the shadow card to that. So my soul and personality and the Lovers, and the Devil card is the shadow of Lovers. I've got a link somewhere, and I'll forward it to you by pm.

caridwen	08 Apr 2005
Enchanted wrote: Hi all I would like to hear others opinions on this card. For me the two of cups always conjures up images of romantic love, but then again I have RWS and Gilded deck, both support this image. I have read that the two of cups can symbolise the need for greater self love. ie: In order to love others you must learn to love yourself first, but I don't really get this from the images on the decks I have. At a stretch I could maybe see it in terms of 'embracing' masculine and feminine, but at a stretch! I wondered if anyone had a deck that supported the idea of greater self love with the two of cups? Or any opinions, two of cups romantic love or self love? I also have RWS and see the Two as two people drawn together. Not necessarily as lovers but friends or family as well. Drawing closer or moving together in any kind of relationship is my take on this card. Thus my deck, as far as I am aware, does not embrace the 'greater self love' reading, interesting as it is. I don't know which card would represent this and it's a very interesting concept. I would see it, of the top of my head, as a mixture of cards rather than one...I need time to think about this one. Thank you for bringing it up - very interesting:D

firemaiden	08 Apr 2005
If you break it down to the simplest level, the two of cups symbolizes two-ness in cups-ness... whatever you want to make out of that beyond this simple level, will depend upon the context.

Elven	08 Apr 2005
I've also seen this come through as a 'compassionate truce': With trust, the equal exchange of love, forgivemess and understanding when opposites embrace. Blessings Elven x

judylea1	08 Apr 2005
There are two individuals, they are moving toward each other and offering each other the cup of love. The card doesn't seem to have the sexual implications of the lovers card, could be love between friends, or even self love, I guess. However, there is something a bit intense about the love offered -- the two people are only looking at each other and seem strongly intent on each other, a gaze one would relate to passion. I have to say that the only time I get this card there's a romantic interest going on.

Fudugazi	08 Apr 2005
judylea1 wrote: There are two individuals, they are moving toward each other and offering each other the cup of love. The card doesn't seem to have the sexual implications of the lovers card, could be love between friends, or even self love, I guess. However, there is something a bit intense about the love offered -- the two people are only looking at each other and seem strongly intent on each other, a gaze one would relate to passion. I have to say that the only time I get this card there's a romantic interest going on. So you are saying - if it is self-love - it would go as far as narcissism? And if romantic love - exclusion? I don't know. It seems softer than that, somehow. But depending on the rest of the spread, of course, it can be very hot! I have drawn it for myself a few times recently and a reading done for me featured the 2 of cups. I don't think it is romantic in this instance. I think it is more about getting myself together, healing and balancing my emotions - bringing the two sides of me in harmony. But of course, by doing that I heighten my chances of meeting my match ;).

caridwen	08 Apr 2005
Helvetica wrote: I have drawn it for myself a few times recently and a reading done for me featured the 2 of cups. I don't think it is romantic in this instance. I think it is more about getting myself together, healing and balancing my emotions - bringing the two sides of me in harmony. But of course, by doing that I heighten my chances of meeting my match ;). Do you mean instead of Temperance? If the spread was a romantic one asking about how to meet your ideal, I can imagine the Two of Cups but why this card and not Temperance if it was about harmony etcc

Fudugazi	09 Apr 2005
No idea why it was this card! Tarot rules, not me. But it has been clear to me for some years now - because I have had the experience in readings and journalled it - that this card can mean romantic love or friendship AND self love - and that the two are linked. It is a card of gestation, too - as are all Twos - a card of possibilities rather than achievement (that's why you can draw it when you meet or reconcile with someone, but also when you start to feel happier within yourself, as though two parts of you were beginning to move together). It is the beginning of communication, of communion. In contrast, Temperance is the card of the alchemist - integration of two or more things, sometimes but not necessarily emotional (I have had it, for instance in qestions about balancing work and social life) - integration which must be earnt through a long and sometimes painful initiation (as exemplified by the alchemical Great Work). A card of stabilisation in movement, too.

psychic sue	09 Apr 2005
Sometimes, I have found, this card can be the masculine and feminie sides merging. Also true of the lovers. A balance has been struck. It can also mean a very close friendship rather than romance. Obviously depends on the reading and spread. Sue x

Alta	09 Apr 2005
To expand a bit on the self-love and mirroring idea.... sometimes we don't know ourselves very much. We are judgmental towards ourselves. The 2 of cups, in its mirroring way, is a process of really seeing ourselves and being able to love ourselves.

Fudugazi	09 Apr 2005
Marion wrote: To expand a bit on the self-love and mirroring idea.... sometimes we don't know ourselves very much. We are judgmental towards ourselves. The 2 of cups, in its mirroring way, is a process of really seeing ourselves and being able to love ourselves. Oh, that's so well put! Yes, absolutely. Coincidentally I chose a new avatar for myself a day or so ago - a still from a favourite film of mine, Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast. Looking at it now, it seems to exemplify that inner mirroring we do - part beauty, part beast - which must learn to know and love each other. It is the same when we learn to love another. At first they are all Beauty - then we discover the Beast and we must learn to love it too (the opposite of what happenened in the fairytale, where Beauty had to learn to see the beauty in the Beast). The Two of Cups, therefore, can be that moment when we see the beauty in the Beast...as well as the moment when we only see the beauty, not yet the beast (which we must learn to see as beautiful too).

caridwen	09 Apr 2005
Helvetica wrote: No idea why it was this card! Tarot rules, not me. But it has been clear to me for some years now - because I have had the experience in readings and journalled it - that this card can mean romantic love or friendship AND self love - and that the two are linked. It is a card of gestation, too - as are all Twos - a card of possibilities rather than achievement (that's why you can draw it when you meet or reconcile with someone, but also when you start to feel happier within yourself, as though two parts of you were beginning to move together). It is the beginning of communication, of communion. In contrast, Temperance is the card of the alchemist - integration of two or more things, sometimes but not necessarily emotional (I have had it, for instance in qestions about balancing work and social life) - integration which must be earnt through a long and sometimes painful initiation (as exemplified by the alchemical Great Work). A card of stabilisation in movement, too. That's such an interesting take on the card and one I will take note of. Thank you so much for explaining that to me:)

caridwen	09 Apr 2005
Marion wrote: To expand a bit on the self-love and mirroring idea.... sometimes we don't know ourselves very much. We are judgmental towards ourselves. The 2 of cups, in its mirroring way, is a process of really seeing ourselves and being able to love ourselves. Marion would you mind expanding on that and giving me an example?:)

Enchanted	09 Apr 2005
Helvetica wrote: The Two of Cups, therefore, can be that moment when we see the beauty in the Beast...as well as the moment when we only see the beauty, not yet the beast (which we must learn to see as beautiful too). Now this is interesting! So you could see the two of cups as not only the beauty and the beast within yourself but also the beauty and the beast in another? Maybe, as the couple on the RWS really portray a beauty, not just in a physical sense but also on an emotional level perhaps the card in terms of self love and romantic love is not about the beast but about the beauty. Maybe it could be seen to be a sign to forget all the 'beasty' stuff for awhile and just look at what is beautiful in you and in another, what you love about yourself and what you love about another...

Fudugazi	09 Apr 2005
Enchanted wrote: Maybe, as the couple on the RWS really portray a beauty, not just in a physical sense but also on an emotional level perhaps the card in terms of self love and romantic love is not about the beast but about the beauty. Maybe it could be seen to be a sign to forget all the 'beasty' stuff for awhile and just look at what is beautiful in you and in another, what you love about yourself and what you love about another... Yes! that's more or less what I was trying to get at - thank you for clarifying it ) When Beauty started to love the Beast, he was still a Beast - but at the moment she told him - I love you - he became a Prince. But it is the Beast she knew first and fell in love with. Or rather, it was the Prince hidden inside the Beastly exterior, and which she recognised. Now, we might meet someone (or indeed a part of ourselves) we really love straightaway and do not see any other side of them (we meet the Prince straight off). Then one day we encounter it - the Beast in the Other, or in ourselves. That is the hardest part of love. To learn, at that moment, to love the Beast, so that the whole other can become a Prince - a much more expanded love, for we have overcome the fear and repulsion we feel before this unknown Beast that borrowed our lover's face and voice (and this works internally as well, when we encoutner a side of us we hate). The mirror theme is very strong in Beauty and the Beast. It is through a magic mirror that Beauty can go back and forth between her father's house and the Beast's castle. A mirror between the magic and the mundane. Magic and mundane mirroring each other, but also separated by this glass reflection... Love requires such an enchanted mirror. That is also what I was thinking of when I wrote that lovers (and we internally) go through the looking glass to each other. I see this mirroring in the two lovers holding cups - like rounded mirrors - at each other through which they can pass between the magic of their love and the mundanity of their everyday lives.

judylea1	09 Apr 2005
True, they are linked -- it may be argued that we fall in love with people who make us feel good about ourselves (healthy love, at least), in this way romantic love and self love happen simultaneously. Perhaps self love is the ultimate end of romantic love.

tmgrl2	09 Apr 2005
firemaiden wrote: If you break it down to the simplest level, the two of cups symbolizes two-ness in cups-ness... whatever you want to make out of that beyond this simple level, will depend upon the context. Context...aha...Seems as if I say that more and more frequently these days...but Yes...context! So as a "two" we have "duality"....in some form....within oneself or in relation to another person...or another thing? and Cups-ness...I like your made-up word, fm... Cups...also, need to be seen within the context of the appearance of other suits...their positions...presence or absence of Trumps. No cards exist in isolation from others (unless one is doing a one-card draw). Too much Wands-ness...if one sees Wands as fire...and Fire can burn itself out... Too much Cups-ness can be paralyzing... So rather than Seeing any card as "always" conjuring up a particular image or area.... Well...I think that I prefer to review the context and then see what comes forward.

Rhiannon SW	10 Apr 2005
I too have the Gilded Tarot and I usually get this card when my husband is the issue. We have acheived that oneness in the coming together of our 2 separate spirits. He truely is my other half and I totally understand about reaching a place that is not really describable. Just my opinion Lisa

Rhiannon SW	10 Apr 2005
Helvetica I also thought about it as what do you see when you look down into the ornate gold cup? Your reflection ! A mirror of yourself and your partner does the same also. lisa

TemperanceAngel	10 Apr 2005
I more often than not get the Two of Cups (RWS) when I am asking about my work: Tarot, healing etc. To me this shows the connection I have with my work/spritiual connection. I love this card showing up in that manner :)

The Two of Cups - romantic love or greater self love? thread was originally posted on 08 Apr 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.