Dark Decks <-> Light Decks

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 May 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jmd	24 May 2005
To try and ascertain what tends to constitute a 'light' or 'dark' deck, I wonder, of the five dominant style decks, where each would be placed... I have therefore included only those five-style decks, and simply added another spot for other decks that may perhaps be discussed. I have also purposefully not placed a 'middle' or 'combined B&W' category, in order to get a better sense as to how each tends to be assessed amongst ourselves.

Moongold	24 May 2005
I am not sure what 'Falconier" type decks are :)

Fudugazi	24 May 2005
I've noticed that all the great tarot families (well, those I know - what is Falconier?) -are both Light and Dark. At least, that is how I see them, and work with them. I also voted others! the Spanish-Italian family of El Gran Tarot Esoterico/Crystal Tarot/Tarot Balbi is also both Light and Dark. Tarot de Prague is both; so is the DruidCraft, thought it is more light than dark (whereas I see the TP as evenly balanced). The Alchemical Tarot is Dark and Light, as befits an alchemical Great Work progression. The Gothic Tarot of the Vampires is mainly dark, but has some light moments. The New Orleans Voodoo Tarot is evenly balanced, light and dark, though people not comfortable with animism might see it darker than I do. The Tarot Röhrig is dark and light, often in the same card - quite remarkable modern use of chiaroscuro. The Visconti Sforza is both, but leaning towards the Light, I would say. The Housewives is a deck that pretends to be light but is in fact quite dark.

jmd	24 May 2005
The Falconnier style decks basically take after the designs made under the former by Wegener in 1896, and are first really and overtly Egyptianised decks... For details, probably the most accessible page is from mark Filipas's site:[indent]A History of Egyptian Tarot Decks[/indent]

closrapexa	24 May 2005
I tried but I honestly don't know. At least from the choices here, I can't reall place any of them. While the assorted Vampire and Gothic decks are decidedly dark, I feel that in others the darkeness is what you make of it. Didn't vote in this poll...

Little Baron	24 May 2005
I really don't know either ... I was just reading another thread about darkness in decks and I am not sure, now, what that means. When I first opened myself up to decks in general, an aquaintance, who I realise now knew very little about the tarot, told me that some decks were dark and some were light. I knew nothing about either and took this to mean that a darker deck would somehow have 'more' in it and was worthy of greater depth - something that I consider to not be true. I also assumed that darker decks were darker in colouring or maybe held something in them the others couldn't reach. I also believe that this is nonsence, now, as well. The Thoth, I always thought was dark, until I owned a copy. The pictures are anything but; however, it has 'sides' - it is a good deck that allows me to work with all that is good and all that has a more unhappy taste. However, I think that the majority of decks can do that, since the tarot and all of it's experience is within you. In that light (hehe), any deck can be light and dark and can change from time to time - a deck creates more depth the more that you use it. It is how we interpret and the layers that evolve. Have to say, I am confused but I kind of know what I mean. LB

jmd	24 May 2005
To be frank (and no... I haven't changed my name), I am using the terms 'light' and 'dark' in whatever way those who vote want them to be read. For some, they will adopt a more psychological profile, for others, an aesthetic one, for yet others, a more spiritual one, and for others still, further shades of meaning...

Imagemaker	24 May 2005
I find light and dark in each of the Marseilles, Thoth, and RWS. I think all decks are balanced emotionally/psychologically if they're read in depth, not just on surface appearance.

Kiama	24 May 2005
I voted for RWS and Thoth being BOTH light and dark. They are the main two I've had experience with, other than decks that don't fit into the categories above (but would fit into other) that I just wouldn't have time to discuss here. I feel the RWS and Thoth are very balanced decks, able to focus on both the happy and terrifying aspects of life. Unlike many people, I don't find the artwork on the Thoth 'dark' - I find it beautiful and evocative, much better than the stuff RWS art. I also don't find Crowley's philosophy to be 'dark' either, but once again very balanced. Kiama

jumptothemoonyea	24 May 2005
jmd, omitting the middle, your question asks to label the above decks as black or white. How can we?

Moonbow*	24 May 2005
Well frank, to be ernest, I have voted light and dark for Marseilles and Crowley Thoth. Although when in use, I see the Thoth swinging more towards dark than light, and vice versa for Marseilles. :) I see RWS as light (we are talking generally here, right?) and Falconnier as dark (but that could be because I don't connect with Egyptian decks in the main. The lightest deck that I know is the Glastonbury (but again, is that because I have a deep rooted liking for Glastonbury??), and I consider the Vampire type decks to be dark. The reason for this I think is because of the subject matter of taking and draining a life to live, rather than some of the artwork, which is very good in some cases. Decks with abstract art, generally I find light because they set my imagination going, and I put decks like Tarot of the Spirit and Margarete Petersen in that category. But... I ernestly think that if a person connects well to a deck, that deck will be light for them. That is not to say that it will always give a good outcome to a reading, but that it comes, very much, down to preference in art and how aesthetically pleasing it is to the individual. As to a reading, naturally a deck that a person will connect with and read well with, will give all the necessary answers whether good or bad. I haven't voted on the Eteilla because I have no experience of them.

jmd	24 May 2005
jumptothemoonyea mentions I have omitted a 'middle' in this poll... Frankly, the terms 'light' and 'dark' are not terms I tend to use for decks, as, like many others here, one can see in each deck a more sinister or 'darker', as well as a more love-oriented or 'lighter' aspect. In addition, there will be decks that reflect more of a particular shade (such as the blue-ish of the Hadar Marseille) than another similar deck (such as the red-dish of the Schaffhouse/Classic). Still, by the mere fact of the votes, what it shows is that many amongst us tend to have a 'sense' for whatever may be meant by a deck's 'light' vs 'dark' aspects (even if that sense is differently understood by each of us, and even if many amongst us would want to revise or alter our views with time). As with polls in general, it reflects our current trends, and not necessarily a view of the decks in question. ...and thanks, by the way, ernest...

Cerulean	24 May 2005
We might surmise whether Christian conceived these descriptions himself, or if he fabricated his fictitious histories...In any case, much of Christian's elaborate symbolism would find its way into the occult decks that were soon to follow, including those by Falconnier, Papus, Wirth, and even Waite. Perhaps the watershed event for the Egyptian pattern was the 1896 publication of the book Les XXII lames hermètiques du tarot divinatoire by R. Falconnier. Here, for the first time, could be seen designs which truly mimicked Egyptian art. The images (shown below) were drawn by M.O.Wegener and based on the detailed descriptions by Christian. Readers were encouraged to cut the 22 designs out of the book for use with the divinatory instructions provided. The 56 suit cards were not a part of this divination process, so they were not included in the book. Tarot historians place the Etteilla decks within the Egyptian Tarot tradition. But it is the designs of Falconnier and Wegener - more authentically Egyptian and based squarely on French occult theory - which mark the birth of the Egyptian Tarot as we think of it today. Although there is no historical basis to claims of Egyptian origin, there is something compelling to the symbolism of these decks. Full review here: http://www.meta-religion.com/Esoterism/Tarot/a_history_of_egyptian_tarot_deck.htm Modern versions of this pattern include: 1. Sylvana Alasia's Egyptien Tarot (also in a book-deck kit), plus Mark Filipas listing: A. Mark Filipas: 1. Falconnier and Wegener, Les XXII lames hermètiques du tarot divinatoire, 1896; 2. Egyptian Tarot, 1978 deck by AGMüller based on the 1901 illustrations from Practical Astrology; 3. The Brotherhood of Light Tarot, 1936 illustrations from The Sacred Tarot; 4. The Zain designs were redrawn for the 1996 edition of The Sacred Tarot; 5. The Ibis Tarot by Josef Machynka, published by AGMüller in 1991. Best regards, Cerulean

fyreflye	24 May 2005
It's all in your mind.

Emeraldgirl	25 May 2005
I don't think any one deck is completely dark or light. When I hear of these discussions wher people are talking about different decks being good or bad based on the people who created them (as with the Crolwey Toth) and their ideas of the people behind the deck. I think of the Simpsons Episode where Lisa gets her cards done. From wht I remember it goes something like this: Death card is pulled: Huge gasp from Lisa Reader: " No, no that card is good" Fluffy Bunny Card Pulled Lisa: "Aw cute" Reader: "No that card is very bad" Sometime the more dangerous or confronting person is not the one who is open about their dark side but the one that conceals it. Same with light and dark decks.

light2000	01 Jun 2005
I love lights decks especially gold ones.

firemaiden	02 Jun 2005
I voted they were all dark :) but I left out falconier, because I had never heard of it.

rainwolf	02 Jun 2005
Moongold wrote: I am not sure what 'Falconier" type decks are :) Me either LOL I thought i've heard they were dark though.

Clau	02 Jun 2005
I also have read the dark deck thread POST by POST and I didn't get at all what was that about....i didn't vote

jmd	02 Jun 2005
Clau, this poll simply arose out of reflections from the thread What's with the fascination with darkness?. I was just very curious, without attempting to any manner define 'dark and light', as to how the major categories of decks are generally perceived.

The Dark Decks <-> Light Decks thread was originally posted on 24 May 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.