Deal first, face down or...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 May 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

tmgrl2	29 May 2005
do you deal the spread face up and then begin to read? I was thinking about the various ways I read when I read live...(also, how I would read for someone not present). I took a look at this older thread on the topic: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9179 and thought perhaps we could revisit this discussion since we have so many new members....and since the topic continues to fascinate me. When I first began reading, I dealt the cards up in the positions in the spread...then I would look at all of them...for patterns, cards that seemed to stand out, either because they were major or seemed to "not belong" ... I would discuss each position then and the card in it and at the end try to tie things together in a narrative...if the reading was live, I would interact with my sitter, about meanings .... Then, I tried something I had not been doing. Dealing the spread face down and turning up each card and reading it...one by one..sometimes making connections as I turned each one up and Finally, at the end, the narrative, a summary of what we had covered. I would love to reopen this discussion. Sometimes, I find that if a lot of cards are out at once on the table face up before I begin, especially if the sitter isn't used to getting readings...or if I sense they will be looking at all of them and thinking things and not listening...(although, I do encourage the process to begin when the sitter is ready to join in). That... For some sitters, it may be best to turn over one at a time and talk... At present, I don't have any rules...when my sitter comes into my office and we have settled in with some water, coffee, tea...the cards...some small talk. I decide in the moment, Which spread I will use... Whether I will turn them all over at once, Whether I will draw the cards from top or fan them and let sitter pick cards.... Sometimes there is a question...sometimes, not...that drives things for me as well.... So...hopefully, this will be a continued sharing of your "sequence" of reading the cards.... I don't personally believe that there is a "right" or "wrong" way....just YOUR way...and would love to hear your stories. terri

Citrin	29 May 2005
I used to do it like you did in the beginning. :) Face up, and then 'skim through' the cards to later look at each card more carefully. A few times I've dealt them face down and then turned them over and studied them one by one. It actually worked fine, but I've kind of mixed the two styles. I deal them face up, but I study them one by one and then look at the big picture. Hmm I guess it's more similar to the 'face down' dealing, but I'm just so used to my way of shuffling and then putting them face up on the table.

tmgrl2	29 May 2005
Thanks, citrin... I like the idea of deciding what I'm going to do once my sitter comes and I have an idea of time and whether or not there is a question. terri

Mesara	29 May 2005
I used to lay the whole spread out face down, then starting at position 1, begin turning the cards face up and read as I went along..turning the cards over as I got to them. Now I lay the cards down face up, and I only lay one card down at a time..talk it through with the querent or just give it some thought (if reading for myself), then lay down the next card face up, relate it to the first, and so on and so on.. Then at the very end, when the spread is complete in form and Ive received and relayed my initial impressions of each card, I scan the entire spread for patterns, points of interest, etc. I find this approach works best for me because Im not bombarded by five, ten, twenty images at once.. I often found myself making hasty connections with this method because of the sensory overload..and in the end the reading would seem disjointed, confusing, and vague. It actually seemed to hurt doing it this way! I have astigmatism-my eyes would go crazy trying to focus and make sense of everything at once. My new approach creates a nice flow, maybe a bit slow paced.. but way more comprehensive.

Gwynne	29 May 2005
I lay the cards face down and tell the sitter what the card position is. For instance in my relationship spread I'd say "This card represents you, this card represents your loved one. This card represents how you view the relationship..." etc... Then one by one I turn them over and read them, connecting any pairings. For instance, with the relationship spread if you see Queen of Swords with a Six of Cups reversed, what kind of pairing is that? Do they get along well (not really), who's the dominant one in the relationship (that Queen!) Then once all the cards are covered I look for balance in the spread, and any other patterns. Does one side look darker or lighter than the other? Is it top heavy or bottom heavy? Is one side happier than the other? (I tend to use perfectly symmetrical spreads, so the Celtic Cross is a rare one for me....) One thing about this is it makes the process more dramatic, more special. I'm really taking the time with the client to explore the reading. If all the cards are laid out and wide open from the start, he/she may panic at the Death or Tower card later in the reading. All they'll see is that card, forgetting the position, forgetting the cards before and around it. Whereas when I go card by card and say "And this is what you expect from the relationship.... The Tower! It seems that you expect things to fall apart! You can't seem to believe that things will be ok." They really get the card and realize it's not bad, it has meaning for that position and can be worked out. Gwynne

tmgrl2	29 May 2005
I am hearing more of how I feel from both of you...Mesara and Gwynne... One at a time and talk about each...I had a couple of not quite Happy Squirrel experiences when I first started with too many face up... (wasn't the Death or Devil...but the Tower from the Gilded....and my sitter went right to that card and said..."ohmygodwhateverisgoingone there??? What does that mean?" Beautiful card, the Tower, but I guess for someone who has never had a reading, it can look a bit over-the-top) I think that if I had someone who has had a reading before and if the spread was a quick one...I might just turn them up. But one by one...focus for sitter and reader...conversation.... Also, I do find out before, too, as we set up and chat and shuffle, what the sitter knows about Tarot, or expects from a reading. I'm always quite amazed at the answers....so we chat a bit about Tarot and how I read.... terri

Free Flight	29 May 2005
Because I am still in my early days I lay the cards all face up. However after reading this thread I am interested in trying things the other way round as someone said doing one card at time is easier to interpret the individual card rather than being bombarded by many images. thanks

Simone	30 May 2005
How funny! I have never ever considered dealing the cards face up. In all my 15 years of reading, this is a completely new idea to me! :D really! So what do I do? After shuffling, I fan out the cards, pull the number of cards I need for my spread and lay them out into the positions immediately (backside up). Always. Then I turn them around - either card by card and interpret them individually and doing an overview lately - or all together. Depending on the spread, my mood and the querent. I never even thought about doing it any other way. It was obvious to me that that was the }) way to do it... haha, I should have know that someone would come up with a different way. Sorry, I am just so surprised! :D

HOLMES	30 May 2005
if i am live or doing it over the net, if i am doing it live then i sit there spreads the cards out face up, but i don't look at all the whole spread, i start at card number one and work my way through trying not to look ahead. when i read online i turn the cards over from one pile to the side starting a new pile sometimes going as deep as 21 cards if i am doing one heck of a big spread. so it varies, i am of course a postional reader so seeing the whole spread doenst matter for me devil advocate here the tarot decoded is good for doing understanding spreads from an elemental point of view ":) which is just another system after all :)

Emeraldgirl	30 May 2005
I lay them all face down while dealing then wehn all the cards are on the table I flip them all over and read from there it tends to stop people from gasping and crying when the Death or Devil cards come up :) It also allows me to set down the deck and make sure the everyone is comfitable before going any further.

Moonbow*	30 May 2005
I do it both ways and it seems to vary according to the spread. A larger spread, (which I don't use often) I would place face down, turn over the cards one at a time, but not speak about them until the whole spread was face up. This helps me to contemplate the card in it's position and alone, before then looking at the spread as a whole. I never read one card while the rest of the spread is face down. For a smaller spread, a PPF for example, I would turn all three over before contemplating them. But, call me odd :) I love to see the backs of the cards in a large spread face down first! It's like a meditation tool for me and helps me to focus. Try it with a CC spread and all the cards face down, I surely can't be the only person that likes to see the backs?!?

tmgrl2	30 May 2005
Moonbow...It's funny what you said about loving to see them face down first....when I first turned them face up and placed them in their proper positions....I tried to read them in position order....but often patterns jumped out at me right away. Sometimes a heavy weighting of one suit, or court cards or pips....and sometimes if there was a card like the Tower in that one reading, I wound up talking about the card itself in terms of what it means, just to get the sitter moved away from focusing on it. Then I would discuss other cards that jumped out at me in terms of the meanings of that card for that position. THEN, finally, I would go back to position #1 and move sequentially and finally....tie it all together and continue our discussion or interaction. When Umbrae first mentioned in a thread the method of setting out all of the cards face down, and turning up each position in order, reading the card and then eventually putting them together and finally, integrating combinations and patterns... I tried it. I have to admit. I love seeing the backs of the cards sitting there as unknowns in the positions. I glanced again through some of the books I read when I was first learning about Tarot....not that long ago. Mary Greer does all kinds of things with spreads. She has practices wherein the reader reads the spread, then moves each card one position over or where the cards in the spread are shuffled and then placed again in order for same spread. What changes? What is the same? Is the overall message or advice similar?? My friend, Mary and I both enjoyed playing with the cards in various ways....I still think this is a good way to free one up to release some patterns we may develop. I can't remember who said it....elf? in a recent thread...forgive me for not remembering...but It was something to the effect that the reader didn't want the pattern to become so strong, that the readings became too patterned, too rote and less free in flow. This is one reason, I never know what I am going to do till my sitter arrives holmes...online readings do present a different situation. We are pretty free to do what we wish since our sitter can't see us lay out the cards. I usually set the cards all out face up, and then look them all over...I post in my writing box the cards drawn in their positions. But then... I start with something that might have attracted my attention immediately. It's as though I have to say certain things right away...so I can get them out...then I can move into a more sequential read. When I have been to other live readers for a reading for myself, I have seen readers turn over one card at a time, NO spread and read each card. The man that did the reading that helped me the most, turned over each card, read it, turned over another, read it....at end he wound up with a CC spread. When I told him that I read Tarot, he clarified that he was really a medium...and that he hadn't studied the cards, but by the end, there were some fairly traditional meanings he had given me and I couldn't discern any reference to positional meanings. The reading was quite good and it was interactive. Great discussion....I was hoping we would draw in many since we have so many readers with years of experience and so many of us who are still new and shaping our practices and styles. What amazes me, now that I am reading in my home office, is how each reading is so ..different...once there is a real person sitting there, the dynamics have such an effect on the course of the reading. Sometimes, (I usually use my own spread -Four of Swords and Shield of Love, or Umbrae's horseshoe or his relationship spread)....if I feel the first cards drawn are "flat" for me...I go back and set a clarifier card face up on one or more of the cards. terri

Moonbow*	30 May 2005
Terri, interesting points, I think you are the type of reader I would like to go to. One that doesn't have a set pattern but will decide on the spur, what is best suited to me. From experience, whether it be Tarot readers, Reiki practioners or ... hairdressers! I like to feel individual, as though the time spent with me is especially for me, and me alone. That is what a personal service is about afterall. I chose my Reiki Master because she was the only one with bare feet, I connected with her immediately (no I don't like my feet bare) it was because she was unafraid to feel the freedom involved with sharing her gift. I also like to do readings with no spread, therefore no categories, no little boxes of what will be discussed. Just a flow of information from the cards. This is how I read Lenormand cards, and more often now, I like to read Tarot the same way. (although I don't have paid customers, like you do, mine are friends that pay me in kind). In my view, it's always the best for everyone involved, to go along with one's gut feeling.

tmgrl2	30 May 2005
Moonbow* wrote: In my view, it's always the best for everyone involved, to go along with one's gut feeling. And if this element is not present...then I feel we are missing something quite basic to the process of reading... Hence....the event of reading, I believe, will shape itself as we go. So far, I have not been disappointed. I don't always know what happens after a reader leaves...but I do feel that I have done my best for the individual and pray that some seed of guidance was taken away...to be planted when and if the sitter is ready. I may try turning over cards as some readers have for me...with no spread... I'm just not quite there yet....I have this feeling that one day, in will walk a client...and that's just what will occur that day. Thank you for sharing this, Moonbow.... Over the years in my working profession, while I often had reports and test results and information prior to meeting new patients/clients, I learned that no matter how much experience and training and knowledge I had, There was still that first meeting with the client...with the families...and over time...if I trusted that my instincts would blend with my training, we found our way through some mazes of communication disabilities.... When I was younger, I always wanted to have that first session well-planned. Ha!! I learned as I gained confidence, that my clients, students, often had a completely different agenda in mind...so, together we created our plans and moved forward. It took me many years to feel this way...yet, on the first day of school, or for the first sessions meeting with students in a group...those that I hadn't had in previous years, I was always a bit nervous...as were they. That is normal....and so we build together. terri

Emeraldgirl	31 May 2005
Moonbow* wrote: But, call me odd :) I love to see the backs of the cards in a large spread face down first! It's like a meditation tool for me and helps me to focus. Try it with a CC spread and all the cards face down, I surely can't be the only person that likes to see the backs?!? Depends on what the backs look like :) I do love looking at the back of the cards in a spread and when using a deck like the Hadar TdM or the Gilded where the backs are as nice is the fronts it's also a pleasent sight. It can also give some time before really getting into the reading to centre yourself and clear your head and make sure everyone's still happy and willing to go ahead with the reading.

jmd	31 May 2005
For many of the spreads I use, I tend not to have a definite number of cards, but rather, like a sentence begun, allow each additional card to develop the narrative. When such is the case, I tend not even to spread out all cards at once (for I do not even know how many I'll end up with, but usually between three and ten), but each card is drawn face up. If I use a definite spread, such as a Celtic Cross [cc] or a seven-card fan, I am likely to have some face down, and some face up - if I deal the whole spread in one go. For example, with the CC, I may have the first and second card face-up, the four surrounding cards face down, the bottom of the vertical face up, and the outcome card (top of the vertical) face up... the others turned as the reading is being narrated. For myself at any rate, it really does depend so much on the day, on the specific reading-at-hand, and the way in which a reading - or subsequent further reading, develops.

tmgrl2	31 May 2005
I agree, Emeraldgirl...the backs of some decks are quite lovely...some even worthy of reflection in and of themselves....the Gilded is one of those! jmd, I agree that the CC presents some additional challenges. I happen to like it! For my own spread of 5 cards, drawing clarifiers answers the question of how soon to turn cards over...five at a time isn't too many. With the CC, although I haven't used it in some time, I would agree, that now that I am reading more for live sitters, I would probably set all the cards out face down and turn a few up at a time. I was thinking about that the other day as I prepare for a new group of sitters. I like the idea of turning up first the "spiritual/inner" column (bottom to top), starting with 1/2...that way the focus can be on that aspect...then the row across ...finally, the "ladder" as I call it...also I look at the top card of the spiritual/inner row (for me card #5, for others a different number) and the last card together as possible outcomes.... Sometimes with the CC I look at bottom and left of cross together...one inner/root/spiritual, the other outer/past/receding....it depends. I do feel with a spread that has 10 cards, though, some spacing in the turning up works well. Umbrae's relationship spread is another one that bears discussion....the other day...he looked first at all of the cards and saw column #2, the Core of the relationship as being "pinned" or "tied" to the first person.....and then went on to discuss the individuals and the relationships among and between the cards. The relationship spread works nicely for me if it is all turned up at once and then I move in the directions first that capture my eye. Again...the instant of the reading is the great determinating factor for me, too. terri

mikeymikeymike	02 Jun 2005
For me it depends on which deck i'm using. If i'm using my crystal tarot i read face up, my crow's magick tarot get read face down... i'm not actually sure why i do it this way, its just the way i feel i should... mike x

Light_and_Shadows	02 Jun 2005
It doesn't strongly matter face up or down but if you deal them face down you tend to get a more through reading!! Its always good to ask questions!!

tmgrl2	02 Jun 2005
Light_and_Shadows wrote: It doesn't strongly matter face up or down but if you deal them face down you tend to get a more through reading!! Its always good to ask questions!! Thanks! and welcome Light and Shadows! Since you mentioned questions...I'm going to put the link here that deals has our AT links on "how to read." I pulled out the one on dealing face up or down to jump start the discussion again...but there are many links dealing with the question...and many opinions as well... http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=15119 I think L&S, that if I do have a specific question, I would be more likely to turn up one card at a time after I choose the spread that works for me....all after the sitter has settled in.... Many of my sitters have never had a Tarot reading...in this case, I don't force a question if they don't have any area or topic or question...I also am less likely to have too many cards face up right away. mikey...I'm with you...no "right" or "wrong" about face up, face down...just seems that there are factors that governs individual readers in their preferences depending on the instant of the reading.... whether or not person has had a reading before which deck is being used which spread is being used how many cards are in the spread whether or not there is a question preference of the reader in the moment length of reading timewise where you may be when you give the reading (for example, may be in public place and this may drive how you set out cards and/or turn them up) This discussion has been great... Once more, I feel that I will continue to explore various methods of dealing As I do, I seem to be shaping some guidelines for myself as a reader. Thanks everyone! terri

The Deal first, face down or... thread was originally posted on 29 May 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.