Death card and the rose
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 May 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| autumn star |
16 May 2005 |
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I wasn't sure where to put this post, so I'm sorry if belongs somewhere else.
My question is about the Death card, as I have recently had some experience with this card.
I use the Morgan Greer deck, and the Death card in this deck is pictured with a white rose. Does anyone know the significance of the rose? I ask this question because I have recently had alot of dreams about roses and I was I started to see the connection between my dreams and the card. Soif anyone could tell me what the rose means I would be very grateful.
autumn star :)
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| tarotbear |
16 May 2005 |
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The white rose on the Death card signifies the Life Force. All life ends in death; every death is the begining for renewal of life.
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| Fudugazi |
17 May 2005 |
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There might also be a relation to alchemy, as roses are important symbols in alchemy. The white rose signifies the albedo - the stage just after the nigredo of death and dissolution, during which the fruit of the union of male and female materials (mercury and sulfur) had been burnt to calcination in the alchemist's oven; in the albedo the remains are washed, and the washing operation is repeated many times. Once the material is white, it is ready to be reborn again. But it is not yet reborn - in order for that to happen, the life force of rubedo, symbolised by the red rose, must be infused in the material. This corresponds to a stage of passion in human philosophy and emotion - mystical union with the Divine (at the stage of rubedo the higher union of Male and Female principle are united and meet the Anima Mundi, the World Soul - the soul of the Divine), which many see as true rebirth, especially in the Western mystical tradition.
This reminds me of an Arab legend about the white and red rose, which I found recently:
Originally Roses where white. One night the Nightingale met a white Rose and fell in Love. His love was so intense that he was inspired to song (for before that nightingales only croaked and chirped). Eventually his love was such that he pressed himself to the flower and the thorns pierced his heart and coloured the Rose forever red.
Truly transformed by love...
And so it is in the Tarot. Though life may return after the death of the soul (or a part of the psyche as in depression) through the operation of many "washings" and purifying, still it is not until the joy and passion of the Sun that the soul can be truly reborn in the Judgement card...
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| Tetrflare |
17 May 2005 |
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This rose is the rose of life.
If you noticed, the fool has a white rose... after that, the magician and the cards following will show red roses, till the death card where the significant white rose is show. It signify life from a pure, white soul into the world, through experiences, turn red, and finally, through death, turns white again.
So, the rose here means life turns pure again with death, and another start, but into a different passage... as the next few cards show the spiritual path, instead of the material path before.
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| mike gorth |
17 May 2005 |
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I asked the same question but in relation to the magician in which in RWS he is holding the white rose so you see how it connects.
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| autumn star |
17 May 2005 |
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Thanks everyone, that makes me much more clearer about the meaning of the white rose.
I like the idea that death has the white rose because death makes things pure, and fresh for a new start.
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| deranged_walrus |
17 May 2005 |
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In Japan (I'm not sure if it's all of Asia), white roses are the flowers at a funeral, the ones that symbolise death and mourning.
In France it's the carnation, US it's gladiolus, and I believe it's some species of lily for Jewish customs.
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| L'Etoile |
17 May 2005 |
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I've heard the white rose as rebirth. As in, Death will lead to rebirth, so the sybolism is that of a changing cycle.
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| rainwolf |
18 May 2005 |
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I've also defined it as purity after death of what is old and outworn, which is as beautiful as a white rose.
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| Tetrflare |
18 May 2005 |
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I'm an asian. Asians customs are such that we do not give any white flowers(not just roses) during celebration, like weddings or birthdays, as it is meant for funerals.
But in my country(singapore), we are very westernised and do not really follow the customs, although we keep them in mind.
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| Fudugazi |
18 May 2005 |
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In France it's the carnation No, in France it is the chrysanthemum.
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| Fudugazi |
18 May 2005 |
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I've also defined it as purity after death of what is old and outworn, which is as beautiful as a white rose. You say it well - the moment of purity is not death itself, but after death. It also tallies with stories of "white light" which people who have had death experiences and come back to this life all recall in the minutes/hours that follow death.
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| Emily |
18 May 2005 |
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Have you noticed the thorns that white rose has on it? and the fact that it is in full bloom. It looks like Death is about to chop it off with his scythe. In effect pruning it, but pruning roses just makes them grow all the more stronger. :)
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| deranged_walrus |
18 May 2005 |
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I'm an asian. Asians customs are such that we do not give any white flowers(not just roses) during celebration, like weddings or birthdays, as it is meant for funerals.
But in my country(singapore), we are very westernised and do not really follow the customs, although we keep them in mind.
I'm Asian, too. I know that in Korea we avoid white at all times, but one of my friends studying Japanese said specifically that the rose was the funeral flower. I don't like the Japanese, so I really don't care, so I didn't research that. But eah, I know that it's the colour white that Asians don't have around. And I know it's getting Westernised, so even brides are wearing white gowns.
No, in France it is the chrysanthemum.
Sorry about that. I heard it in French class about four years ago, and she definitely said carnation. But, she's not French, and got her BA in Spanish studies, so she didn't really know what she was talking about. Thanks for pointing it out.
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| autumn star |
18 May 2005 |
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Yes, I have noticed that rose has thorns and is in full bloom.
Does anyone know why the rose has thorns?
Perhaps it is in full bloom because it signifies a kind of peak, and the start to a new cycle like the death card itself.
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| autumn star |
18 May 2005 |
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also, I just thought about this,
perhaps the thorns signify the pain and suffering that goes along with death and endings. That's just an idea.
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| Emeraldgirl |
19 May 2005 |
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York and Lancaster were the 2 families who were involeved in the War of the Roses for the English Crown in the 15th the 2 roses were then combined as the device for the Tudor dynasty. Henry Tudor became Henry VII after defeating Yorkist Richard III the battle of Bosworth field and ending decades of civil war. He married Richard's niece Elizabeth of York and founded the Tudor Dynasty. The marriage of Henry Tudor & Elizabeth of York brought about the end of the Wars of the Roses and started a new royal dynasty for England.
Attached is a picture of the Tudor Rose.
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The Death card and the rose thread was originally posted on 16 May 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.
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