-the lovers+the world-concerning a lover and a relationship

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Jun 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Al Si'ra	26 Jun 2005
Ok..The Lovers card keeps popping up (rider waite deck) whenever i ask this question "why are we meant to be together?" and i do not want to sound as a obssesed freak but this card seemed positive comparing to the situation so..in these 8 months i asked 5-6 times the same question and in ALL of them i pulled this card..So i quit..the message is lying within this card.. The answer may seem obvious. but i think there's more to it..I indeed love this person and have lots of passion for him just like the lovers card indicate..but it rather seems a bit one sided right now-i mean he's responding and he has passion for me too but not like i do,not like the card indicates... It's more like the mix of 6 of pents+6 of cups right now... In my latest reading...besides THE LOVERS card i also got THE WORLD If i were to take a positive approach i would easily say that it's a blessed total union of the opposites becoming one- marriage..lovers becoming one etc..of course i don't know what lies ahead but..i am more interested in the poss. meanings of the card. can the lovers card also mean one sided unconditional love- the person is so full of love and life as an individual (the world) that she can give this to anybody without any expectations..love within one's self?Does the lovers always have to point a union of couples when concerning a romantic relationship or a lover? What other things can be said about this card?I mean i know that it can also mean " a choice" but i don't think that this meaning applies here... Any ideas?

Thirteen	26 Jun 2005
In some decks the LOVERS card is Gemini--a card about perfect communication and finding your other half--that part of yourself that makes you both whole. So the answer to the question isn't that you're meant to be together because you "love" each other (though one assumes you do) or are even passionate about each other--but because you make each other WHOLE. Because your SPIRITS communicate with each other. You, however, are focused on the "passion" aspect. You keep asking this question because you're not getting equal passion in return. But the Lovers card is not about "passion." It's about the mind and the spirit--not the body. So there's two, possible interpetations to this card in answer to your question: 1) The card is trying to tell you that he's NOT your equal--that he doesn't make you whole and you need to make a new choice; need to find a Lover who will be your equal. OR-- 2) The card is telling you that he DOES make you whole--but you're not seeing it. He needs your abundant passion and you need his "coolness"--yin/yang--balancing each other out. My husband is very energetic--he doesn't NEED more energy from me--he needs my quietness. Likewise, I don't need a quiet person, I need an energetic person. See? balance. Wholeness. Yin/Yang Here's what you should do: Remove the Lovers card from the deck and set it down. Shuffle the cards. ASK: "What do I need to know about him that I don't know in order to understand the message of this (the Lovers) card?" Put that card to the left. Then ASK: "What do I need to know about myself in order to understand the message of this card?" Put that card to the Right. Then ASK: "What do I need to know about this relationship to understand the message of this card?" PUT that card above the Lover's card. These may help you to discover if the Lovers card is trying to tell you that your relationship is more balanced than you think--or if it's as unbalanced as you seem to feel it is. The WORLD card, likewise, is about balanced forces--mind, body, emotions, spirit--the four corners of the world card. It's about wisdom and learning and travel. It's about coming full circle.

Ace	26 Jun 2005
To me, the lovers-and the world- is asking you a question: what are your mutual goals? what do you both feel passionate about? What do you want to make together (besides babies, but maybe that is part of it, what kind of family would you be?) If you can answer that question, that you and he work together to build something, then go for it! Also: What deck are you using? If it is a RWS type, I wonder if it is replying that he is waiting for a signal from you? Anyway, think about it, if you DID get together, what would you become together, not just a couple but a .....? Ace

Al Si'ra	26 Jun 2005
Wonderful help thanx..."spirits communicating"...why didn't i think of that...could be both of the interpretations you've talked about... Although i feel that we are deeply connected in soul level; sometimes i doubt it and think of it as nonsense...If i were to meet a soulmate somebody told me that it would be like "hell" LOL because he would be just the opposite energy complementing and balancing my energies...wow i just remembered that sometime ago i kept getting THE TEMPERANCE ..i guess it's also related to the lovers...so it's all about the balance...and ying/yang...union of energies,the alchemy..it all makes sense now...the issue is about the ying/yang..but i still have to think if he is my equal or not. lol. In my first post i've also realized that i had an expectation of him returning feelings the way i do..but that would actually be against the nature of the cards..now i see the difference.. he's cold and i am hot...and that would make a full circle- a union- a true union as the card indicates...i am not saying that it is what we have-maybe we do-but it's the message of the lovers card and i see that now...and i've tried your spread to see what the message is and here are the results: Him: Queen of Wands- very strange 'cause that card is always me in readings lol Me: Moon Relationship..The World- again by the way i also pulled clarification cards for each position anyway.. they are: him: The strength me: Knight of wands the relationship: 2 of cups

Al Si'ra	26 Jun 2005
Hi Ace!! Ours is a very strange relationship indeed..That's why i am playing "the hermit" ..i believe that it's related to some spiritual issue in my life maybe a deep karmic issue..and i'd love to learn more about it..Btw i use the rider waite deck. I'd love to answer your questions...if i'd only know the answers myself :)..right now i am searching about the spiritual side rather than the earthly side.. I must admit that i practiced wicca before and i am a developed manifester...and all my life i wanted this specific "soulmate" to enter my life whenever i was ready spiritually..and when i met him in person i just knew that he was "it"..he was everything i wished and imagined including the flaws..I am a bit skeptic about these issues so i rather search it then accept what my heart's saying without questioning it.

Thirteen	27 Jun 2005
Al Si'ra wrote: Him: Queen of Wands- very strange 'cause that card is always me in readings lol Me: Moon Relationship..The World- again I think, given the Queen/Wands and Strength, that he may be more passionate, more energetic than you're giving him credit for. As you identify with this card, it may be telling you that he's more like you than you think. The Queen of Wands is often Leo the Lion--and the Strength card may either be telling you that he, unlike you, keeps the lion within quiet and restrained--and/or that he has the inner strength to make good use of your energy, your passion. Either way, he clearly has more in reserve, more inside than you're seeing. He may feel as much as you do--but he doesn't show it as you do. He keeps things under control. You, in the meantime, are the wild Moon. This card may well be reminding you that you act on impluse, and make powerful demands and change moods; that for all your "passion" you can be cool and remote. A reminder, perhaps, that while you make life very exciting and romantic and magical for the other person--you may not always be easy to satisfy? Knight of Wands is that contrasting "hot" passion of yours. It's more impulsive than his Queen/Wands passion. I find the Knight/Wands and World card interesting because both suggest travel to me--as does the Moon. You seem to be a restless soul, wanting to go places, see things, avoid routine. Is this right? Both the World card and the 2/Cups seem to suggest that the relationship is more balanced than you think. The world suggests that there's wisdom here, that you can both learn a lot from each other--that you are each other's "home". The 2/Cups also suggests that however long you've been together, the relationship still feels new and, perhaps, is still on the surface. You clearly need to look beneath the surface, delve deeper into this man's soul, to discover how much he is your equal. I'd add, by the way, that people often expect magic from that word, "soulmate." They want to feel everything all at once--romance, passion, perfect understanding, joined-at-the-hip one-ness. If they're not feeling all that instantly, on a first date or after a few months, they begin to doubt. But it isn't like that. We are not perfect beings, so it can't be like that. "Soulmate" is a gradual process of finding out that there are connections between you and the person you like on the most important levels--even if others remain forever unconnected. So, on the one hand, you may like loud music and he hates it and he'll never go to a concert with you. And that's sad--but what matters is that you both love Chinese food and you'd both rather hike across Europe than be on a tour bus, and you both agree that cats are better than dogs. The parts that really matter are the ones that fit. And the parts that don't fit you can either live with (he never picks up his socks!), learn to love (he's always grumpy before that first cup of coffee, it's so cute!) or change (he no longer leaves dirty dishes in the sink). A soulmate won't connect on all levels--but he/she will connect on the ones that matter most. All the rest is gravy.

Al Si'ra	28 Jun 2005
Hi thanx a lot for the interpretation...made me think a lot :)Really useful info. Quote: As you identify with this card, it may be telling you that he's more like you than you think. The Queen of Wands is often Leo the Lion--and the Strength card may either be telling you that he, unlike you, keeps the lion within quiet and restrained--and/or that he has the inner strength to make good use of your energy, your passion. Either way, he clearly has more in reserve, more inside than you're seeing. He may feel as much as you do--but he doesn't show it as you do. He keeps things under control. Him being the queen of wands; i never thought that it could indicate a message him being like me-but when i think back now-yes we do have a lot in common esp. when living our individual lives i see that he's very energetic-in our relationship he is not- so i believe it's again because he wants things under control.. Quote: You, in the meantime, are the wild Moon. This card may well be reminding you that you act on impluse, and make powerful demands and change moods; that for all your "passion" you can be cool and remote. I change moods a lot..a lot..and i do act on impulse and i rely on my instincts a lot..i follow my heart almost always..and i am interested in magic :)And interestingly in some situations i can stay unbelievably cool and remote- for ex: right now my bf seems to run away from me i don't know what he's doing but i am ok with it and there's nothing to worry about..but i still wonder what he is up to anyway lol... but i don't think i am hard to satisfy- but maybe i am seen like that..as some people just call me " spoiled " lol..but i can be happy even from the smallest things in life. Quote: Knight of Wands is that contrasting "hot" passion of yours. It's more impulsive than his Queen/Wands passion. I find the Knight/Wands and World card interesting because both suggest travel to me--as does the Moon. You seem to be a restless soul, wanting to go places, see things, avoid routine. Is this right? Yes certainly; my greatest wish to travel the world-visit mystical places- i want to see everywhere..this is also his greatest wish and as far as i know he's already been to many places just like me. Quote: Both the World card and the 2/Cups seem to suggest that the relationship is more balanced than you think. The world suggests that there's wisdom here, that you can both learn a lot from each other--that you are each other's "home". The 2/Cups also suggests that however long you've been together, the relationship still feels new and, perhaps, is still on the surface. You clearly need to look beneath the surface, delve deeper into this man's soul, to discover how much he is your equal. I really feel "home" whenever i am with him; and as you said the relationship proceeds very slowly so although we've known eachother for like 6 months we just couldn't start sth really- so the relationship is not deep but on the surface as you suggest..It's also my wish to look beneath the surface actually i do- lol that's why i also consult my cards and intuition-but right now he's as far as i feel scared a bit-maybe scared of all this potential between us so right on everything is the "Hanged Man + Hermit"..But these things happen- sometimes i believe that it may be just a little bit "too hot" to handle all the intense feelings at the same time... Thanx; you've really helped a lot.

The -the lovers+the world-concerning a lover and a relationship thread was originally posted on 26 Jun 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.