untrusworthy person?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Jun 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

martyn_uk	02 Jun 2005
apart from 7 of swords..what other card(s) could be a pointer for an untrustworthy person..the moon?

catti	02 Jun 2005
martyn_uk wrote: apart from 7 of swords..what other card(s) could be a pointer for an untrustworthy person..the moon? Sure a combination like Magician 7 swords Moon, especially if it were a small 3 cards reading about a relationship or business/career affair would indicate there was an untrustworthy influence. Or if the querent said "can i trust 'person x' " and using my Morgan Greer i pull 7 of swords...HMMM i dont think so...a Magician rx, a Fool , Chariot rx , 4 of pent , 10 of swords, Hanged Man, any of the court cards rx Could indicate les than trustworthy individual to me i probably wont be the only one to say this but ONE card rarely means just one thing for me, even though i do alot of unstructed 3-5 card readings ,even if i were just pulling one card , how i would interpret that 7 of swords could vary greatly. Another point is it depends on the deck. You are clearly refering to RWS and varients, but the 7 swords in the crystal tarot by Trevisan or the Tarot of Marseille or the Thoth tarot would not carry that intuition with it. hope this helps a bit Catti

Ace	02 Jun 2005
Knight of Swords Rx might be a promise breaker, or a flirt. Ace

Emeraldgirl	03 Jun 2005
Ace wrote: Knight of Swords Rx might be a promise breaker, or a flirt. Ace As could a Knight of Cups Rx who may indicate a heartbreaker type.

psychic sue	03 Jun 2005
Knight of Swords rx has a reputation for being a charmer and a con-man. If he showed up with the Magician (manipulation) I would be worried !

Scorpion	03 Jun 2005
In a health reading once I had the Bosch Devil representing a doctor who wasn't necessarily negligent but the implication was that s/he was more interested in taking sponsors' money for products than matching the right drug to the patient. But really, almost any of them in different circumstances - I often think of the King of Cups as a person who likes to keep their secrets very close to their chest (but probably wants to know everything about yours!).

Adjustment	03 Jun 2005
The page of swords, the 10 of wands reversed and the knight of wands reversed, magician reversed, chariot reversed and sometimes the hermit reversed and queen of wands upright and reversed.

Ace	04 Jun 2005
Emeraldgirl wrote: As could a Knight of Cups Rx who may indicate a heartbreaker type. I am GLAD you said that Emeraldgirl! I meant to write Kn of Cups Rx!! That is a flirt, not Kn of Swords (to me anyway). Ace

rcb30872	06 Jun 2005
catti wrote: Magician Definitely have to agree with this one. Afterall they may seem charming, but they may be deceiptful. Hello martyn_uk, we started on the same day, do you remember? Bec

Al Si'ra	06 Jun 2005
Let me tell you some of the experiences i've got from my readings so far I think 7 of Swords is taking the lead here ; 'cause afterall he's the one doing sth behind your back..apart from that a High Priestess or a Moon person MIGHT hide things from you; but it doesn't necessarly mean that they are lying.. Let me give examples: 7 of Swords person might tell you that he has no relation with that blond chick u've been seeing around A LOT;but in the end you will eventually catch the truth 'cause usually he's gonna do sth stupid and leave some proofs behind (2 swords out of 7) and he will deny it anyway and will seem even more stupid LOL.. a High Priestess or a Moon person does not have to tell anything because you are not even aware of the blond chick; she's hiding somewhere; probably in fantasies?(so that one is even dangerious; you might not even understand what's going on; the secret's lying deep within).So in theory; these ones do not lie; they just don't tell anything unless probably asked...But if you are lucky to sense that there's sth going on behind the veil; ask them and they will usually reveal it..They are not sneaky! The Magician..oww the poor magician! Everyone thinks he's the trickster.. I think with Magician...He is not a liar; i think he is the one that can be trusted 'cause he'll be telling EVERYTHING in between the lines; but he'll be telling in such a way that you will usually not care 'cause you'll be loving the way he talks and behaves...you'll be fascinated with his ways..But you see it's all about you...Who can blame the lovely Magician; afterall he showed you everything; he put it before you on the table but you were so busy with his power and words and probably with his/her physical traits so you did not take time to understand what he really meant..Magicians do tell you everything just pay attention and read between the lines..They do not need to sneak around they will get what they want anyway... An example (in real life):There's this guy who is very much interested in this girl..they've met eachother and the girl knows that this guy is pretty much interested; they have nice conversations(the Magician) and all; none of them mention anything about dating and etc..6 weeks pass yet the boy begins to back away a little and the girl thinks that everything's alright and deny that he's backing away after all he still does that pretty smile to her; he still makes her laugh when she approaches..who cares if he's not calling for a date(the Magician effect)..then one day she asks if everything's alright(FINALLY)? Then the guy says " Of course everthing's alright but i see that you expect sth more from me which i will not be able to give to you at this time" Then the girl goes crazy and tells him that he's such a liar that he stole her time and the boy says "Well i have never lied to you; and if you didn't realize i have never asked you out in 6 weeks(usually a guy interested asks a girl out in that timeframe); i've never approached you any closer than this and plus i do see someone right now- and that you've never asked about and our conversations have never been about relationships- but see- yes we are indeed friends and i like you anyway as a friend-" So you see he charmed her but she could've seen that coming, afterall he never ever offered her sth; but she denied it and twisted the truth, and she still thinks that Magicians are tricksters who can blame her.. LOL Just my experiences..But i do agree that those personalities can indeed harm people if not well prepared.. I think that it is the nature of the Magician(my soul card in Romani Deck); he likes attention; he likes getting what he wants; he's attractive;he's the manifester;he loves to communicate...he loves to have people around but he will never lie to you to get sth from you- but if you want to be the one to give it-then he will not say no-but then it's not him wanting it-it's you giving it and he will use that truth against you if needed and this can break your heart..Complicated..

mythos	10 Jun 2005
Thank you for that explanation of the Magician. It is my soul card and explains so much to me about myself, and why I get misunderstood. Very helpful ... and particularly apt at this present time. In fact ... a ...er ... soul-saver moment! mythos

Al Si'ra	12 Jun 2005
No problem :)! I was actually waiting for this moment myself..LOL..The Magician is also my soulcard and i can really understand what the other magicians out there are trying to do..and most of the time they are misunderstood; i talk too much; i usually i guess attract my male friends or they get it wrong;and then they think that i'm a series of lies when they cannot get the responses they wish to hear; it's not only about romantic relationships; my family's the same i keep hearing the same sentence all the time " you've become such a trickster; you keep getting what you want;till you get it it's all butterflies and everything's pink-you are such a fun person to be around-and after you get it you are the ice queen." One of my boyfriends in the past was the magician + the moon+ 7 of swords all three together..Can you just believe that; how three can come up side by side in one reading...BUT he is still a person to be trusted; he had some things he tried to hide; but all are revealed in the end..and he hates lying(he does try to lie from time to time but his face tells it all "i really do not like lying but see i couldn't find a wiser way i'm stupid so i hope you'll forgive me some time..") but he loves hiding..and that's another issue. I believe that no-one can really trick anybody; in the end somehow i just believe that the truth comes out and finds you..(i'm naive yes :P) So even when such 3 cards define a person i wouldn't worry much (i told u i was naive LOL)

mythos	12 Jun 2005
Al Si'ra wrote: No problem :)! I believe that no-one can really trick anybody; in the end somehow i just believe that the truth comes out and finds you..(i'm naive yes :P) So even when such 3 cards define a person i wouldn't worry much (i told u i was naive LOL) Even though I know better, naivete is my middle name (first and last too LOL) ... I wonder whether it is being so close to the Fool ... still carrying that belief in the innate goodness of all, because we are prepared to put our cards on the table (cup, wand, sword, pentacle), we assume that, at the core, so too is everone else? I wonder too how one's own capacity to self-deceive shows in the cards? mythos

Alissa	13 Jun 2005
The 2 of swords reversed has come up in several readings where there was a female figure who was lying - either to herself, to another, and/or a lie of omission, instead of a spoken lie. The Devil card I have always seen as the Great Liar... but indicates the Lies we tell ourselves and bind ourselves to. (Addiction, depression, eating disorders, sexual obsession, etc). The 7 of swords I don't see as untrustworthy. I do see him as out for himself, and not giving a sh*t about what others' may think. That makes him a self-serving rogue, but not inherently deceitful.

mythos	13 Jun 2005
Alissa wrote: The 7 of swords I don't see as untrustworthy. I do see him as out for himself, and not giving a sh*t about what others' may think. That makes him a self-serving rogue, but not inherently deceitful. I see a fair amount of ego at work with the guy in the RWS 7 of Swords. He 'thinks' he knows what is best for everyone, and so he takes most of what maintains the situation , leaving enough behind for others to save their necks and get out of a situation, but not enough to continue it - the fight. He has decided that it is 'no win' and has thus decided to control the situation. An ego-driven figure playing god ... not necessarily without good intentions ... but as the old saying goes 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Is he a liar? Well, by taking action without the agreement of others, and probably without consulting them, I suppose, that he is....but he certainly would be offended by the label, convinced as he is, that he is 'saving' the world.

The untrusworthy person? thread was originally posted on 02 Jun 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.