View Single Post
kwaw's Avatar
kwaw  kwaw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
Posts: 5,400
kwaw 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross G Caldwell

All of those orders are different - there's even another one (not to confuse you further) - the days of the week! Sun-Moon-Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Venus-Saturn.

Ross
Which is derived from the Chaldean order as rulers of the planetary hours. And that seems to be at the root of the confusion. In the early manuscripts of the SY the chaldean order is associated with the days, instead of the planetary hours which result in the planetary order of days as above, and it is this apparent inconsistency with the accepted theory of the planetary week which seems to be at the root of all the confusion.

In the earliest extent manuscripts of both the short and long version [manuscripts K and A in prior post] we find:

para 42 and 43a:

Short version [K] And with them were carved out seven firmaments, seven earths, seven hours and seven times. Therefore he loved the seventh under heaven.

These are the seven planets in the universe: Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars. And the days in the years: the seven days of creation. And the seven apertures in mankind: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, and the mouth.

Long version [A] And with them were carved out seven firmaments, seven earths, seven hours and seven days. Therefore he loved the seventh above everything under heaven.

These are the seven planets in the universe: Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars. And the seven days: the seven days of creation. And the seven apertures in mankind: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, and the mouth.

Hayman writes [p.143]:

Quote:
"Despite the fact that he was working with a defective printed text of SY...Soloman Ganz has correctly observed that the author of SY in pp 41 and 44 has "connected the seven planets in the natural order Saturn Jupiter Mars Sun Venus Mercury Moon with the first seven days instead of the first hours of creation." Consequently, 42 and 43a with their reference to the "seven hours" and the order Sun Venus Mercury Moon Saturn Jupiter Mars must be "the gloss of an editor who wished to reconsile the theory of the Book of Creation with the accepted theory of the planetary week". So the later editor "mentions the seven hours and changes the sequence Saturn Jupiter Mars Sun Venus Mercury Moon into the sequence Sun Venus Mercury
Moon Saturn Jupiter Mars to correspond with the first seven hours of the first day of the week".
However, as pointed out by Kaplan, in biblical reckoning evening precedes day; a day thus runs from evening to evening in Jewish tradition, not morning to morning. The first 7 hours of the first day in biblical reckoning and Jewish tradition would thus be Mercury Moon Saturn Jupiter Mars Sun Venus.

Judah Ha-Levi retains the Chaldean order commencing with Saturn but gives days to correspond with accepted planetary week: 'In the year: Sabbath, Thursday, Tuesday, Sunday, Friday, Wednesday, Monday" (Kuzari 4:25, row F in table 33 on p.179 of Kaplan). As pointed out by Ross Sheirat Yosef 10a gives planetary order according to the planetary week (saturday, saturn; sunday, sun; monday, moon; tuesday, mars; wednesday, mercury; thursday, jupiter; friday, venus - row G, table 33 on p.179 Kaplan).

For anyone unfamiliar with the planetary hours and the relatioship of such to the names of the days in the planetary week Kaplan explains:

Quote:
According to the Bible, the Stars and Planets were made on the fourth day of creation... The planets were placed in their positions on the eve of the fourth day, that is, on Tuesday night. They were placed one at time, an hour apart, in order of their distance from earth. Thus in the

first hour (6 p.m.), Saturn was placed in its position...
second hour Jupiter...
third hour Mars...
fourth hour Sun...
fifth hour Venus...
sixth hour Mercury...
seventh hour Moon...

After the first seven hours, their dominance began a new cycle, with the planets in the same order. This seven hour cycle continues throughout the week, and it is the same every week...

The first hour of each evening [after sunset] is dominated by a different planet...

Sun. Mercury
Mon. Jupiter
Tues. Venus
Wed. Saturn
Thurs. Sun
Fri. Moon
Sat. Mars

The first hour of each morning [from sunrise]

Sun. Sun
Mon. Moon
Tues. Mars
Wed. Mercury
Thurs. Jupiter
Fri. Venus
Sat. Sat

Note that the name of each day is associated witht he planet that dominates its first hour in the morning [sun - sunday, moon-monday, etc].
For further explanation of planetary hours with tables, diagrams see for example:
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/...rsarticle.html

Shabbetai Donnolo in one of the earliest of the commentaries on the SY is aware of the discrepancies and "expressed the necessity of correcting the aberrant contents of SY at this point" [Hayman].

So while it is true there is confusion in the very earliest manuscripts of the SY, it is also clear that the basis is the chaldean order with confusion specifically related to the relationship between the planetary hours and days of the week.

Kwaw
Sefer Yetzira Aryeh Kaplan (Weiser Books 1997)
Sefer Yesira A. Peter Hayman (Mohr Siebeck 2004)

Online planetary hour calculator for your location:

http://novachart.com/cgi-bin/chart/I...ORM=hours.html
Top   #28