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kwaw  kwaw is offline
Join Date: 29 Dec 2003
Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey
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Originally Posted by Ayumi
Your comments about Tarot being something for the 'common people' is very true, and very important, Rosanne.

Also let's not forget woodcuts like Erhard Schon's 1515 horoscope wheel shown on the cover of Paul Huson's Mystical Origins of the Tarot, as a great example of the kind of illustrations that would have been included in the Farmer's Calendar's and Almanacs of the period.
Yes, and Calendars and Almanacs from the very beginning of printing were common and popular. Astrological lore and numerological symbolism was ubiquitous in popular culture, exoteric not esoteric, it would be odd for such not to be in the tarot as a popular artifact and such does not necessarily imply that it was structured on the basis of such.

The horoscope engraved by Erhard Schoen, in the houses note:

the man at his counting table with purse in second house, (traditional cosignificators Taurus and Jupiter)

the old man with stick in the 4th house (traditional cosignificators Cancer and Sun of father by day, though here the image of old man with stick would be more congruent with Saturn, significator of the 'father' by night and also of the end of things as signified by 4th house)

the children in 5th house, (traditional cosignificators Leo and Venus)

the marriage in the seventh house, (traditional cosignificators Libra and Moon)

Skeleton with scythe in 8th house, (traditional cosignificators Scorpio and Saturn)

Pope in 9 (traditional cosignificators Sagitarrius and Jupiter)

Emperor in 10 (traditional cosignificators Capricorn and Mars)

Wheel in 11 (traditional cosignificators Aquarius and Sun)

(As a side note you can also see from the above the depiction of the sign Cancer is very much like that of the moon card, more crayfish than crablike)

Making well informed choices about any astrological associations really means seeing astrology as the people of the time would have. There is often a lot of confusion about the symbolism of the celestial houses (Leo, Virgo, etc.) and the mundane houses (3rd house=brothers, 9th house=journey's, etc). Things like Scorpio having ANYTHING to do with Death, was unknown in the 16th century.

8th house (Death) = Saturn, ruler of boundaries, beginnings and ends.

Yep, I agree, but I think you overstate the case a little to say that Scorpio does not having ANYTHING to do with Death, the sign is associated with the 8th as is the planet Saturn as a cosignificator; as I wrote in previous post about the list I gave the iconographic relationship is frequently a better fit to the house of which the sign is cosignificator:

And the cosignificator of the 8th house of Death is Scorpio under which I listed it:

The Eigth House

The Estate of Men deceased, Death, its qualitiy and nature; the Wills, Legacies and Testaments of Men deceased; Dowry of the Wife. Portion of the Maid, whether much or little, easie to be obtained or with difficulty. In duels it represents the Adversaries Second; in Lawsuits the Defendants friends. What kinds of Death a Man shall dye, it signifies fear and anguish of Minde. Who shall enjoy or be heir to the Deceased.

It rules the Privy-parts. Of colours, the Green and Black. Of Signes it has Scorpio for Cosignificator, and Saturn, the Hemoroids, the Stone, Strangury, Poysons, and Bladder are ruled.

William Lilly Christian Astrology: Book I An Introduction to Astrology

While it is fairly straightforward to find correlations with the iconography of the planets any such made with signs tends to be far more of a stretch and to incorporate anachronisms. Perhaps that is because as you rightly note, the planets were considered far more significant, the emphasis on signs is a product of modern astrology.

I think you give a very clear explanation of the relationship of the planetary cosignificators to the meaning of the houses BTW; though the cycle of the sun, annual and diurnal, is also relevant of course. And your example of an astrological spread is excellent, thank you.

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