Pamela Colman Smith Commemorative Set--100 Years!

truelighth said:

That actually depends on which theory you believe in most. According to Frank Jensen's theory, the Roses&Lilies was the first edition and first printing. According to Pietro Alligo's theory, the Pam-B was the first printing, followed by the Roses&Lilies Pam-A and finally the crackled back Pam-A as third edition.

I still believe more in the theory that the Roses&Lilies was the first and the Pam B/C were made later by an inferior copyist.

And sorry to not combine all my posts into one. And to address some things that were already addressed later in the thread. I was writing my replies as I was catching up on the thread. But I hope I have still added some info on the wonderful info Mary already provided on the Roses&Lilies deck.

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So I wasn't just misremembering. Good to know. All the info you have posted is very helpful in clarifying the different hypotheses.

truelighth said:

Btw, if anyone is interested, I would love to share the scans of my Roses&Lilies and crackled versions of these cards. Also on the forum, but my membership prevents me from posting images. So if anyone would like to see them and have them posted, pm me, and I will pm the images so they can post them for me.

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pm sent.

truelighth said:

According to Frank Jensen's theory, the Roses&Lilies was the first edition and first printing. According to Pietro Alligo's theory, the Pam-B was the first printing, followed by the Roses&Lilies Pam-A and finally the crackled back Pam-A as third edition.

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Ok, I have to correct myself here, after reading Frank Jensen's response in another thread about the quirky thingie on the 3 of wands:

gregory said:

Frank Jensen responded:

Quote:
As someone else at Aeclectic said, these lines do not appear on Pam A (nor Pam D). Otherwise, they are present in all other WST editions including USGS's and including the first edition of Waite's 'Pictorial Key' (1911). It is right, that this support Piero Alligo's theory of the sequence of the early WST printings, (advocating that Pam-B/Pam C were the first versions printed). We are actually talking about two different sequences: the print sequence and the publication sequence. It is the latter, I describe in my book. There are no divergences between Piero and me: I fully accept Piero's 'printing sequence' as well as he does accept my 'sequence of publication'.

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So yes, there are two theories, but one deals with the sequence of publication and one with the sequence of printing. Still so many mysteries!


While talking about this subject of printing and all of that with my boyfriend, another thought occured to us. I wonder if anyone has ever looked into this? But since the line art is much more simple or inferior on the Pam B/C compares to the Pam-A, I was suddenly wondering if maybe the Pam B/C was actually a clone, that was later made. I know there are several packs in grey/green slipcases with the Pam B/C with US stamps on the box. Does anyone know if they were actually officially issued by Rider?

Antonius said:

pm sent.

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I'll send you the scans later today . Thanks!

Scans comparison

Here are the scans of decks owned by truelighth.
http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss69/Antonius2009/7pentacles.jpg
http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss69/Antonius2009/hermit.jpg
http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss69/Antonius2009/lovers.jpg

Hope the link works.

Thanks truelighth and Antonius for these scans

In order to compare a little more I add some scans of my Pam C and Pam D copy.
To make the comparison easier I choosed the same cards as truelighth.

I have also added the Empress and the Pentacles 9 as they both show quite well how different the flowers are on all these editions.
I once begun a thread about this but failed to make any conclusion.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=67990

At least comparing flowers or stains one can see if a deck is the photographic copy of another deck or not.

Best regards

I'm struck with how different the facial expressions are on the Pam C.
The 7 of coins has a little upward turn to the mouth that makes him look almost happy or at least peaceful and satisfied.
And the Empress in the Pam C has a very calm, serene look on her face.

lark said:

I'm struck with how different the facial expressions are on the Pam C.
The 7 of coins has a little upward turn to the mouth that makes him look almost happy or at least peaceful and satisfied.
And the Empress in the Pam C has a very calm, serene look on her face.

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This is what I meant with that there are really big differences between the line art on the Pam B/C and the Pam A/D. The faces are different. Not just on the 7 of pentacles and the Empress, on all of the cards.
Which is why it is very certain they were from a different copyist. Which is also why I think the Pam A was first, since that line art was published in the Key to the Tarot from Waite. But again, that is just my opinion.

Now my set arrived and I can join in the show.

The Hermit - -
The left is the Commemorative deck. The Right is the Original Rider Waite.

My understanding is that the Commemorative deck is the reproduction of "Pam-A Rose & Lily" with new back design. As to the touch and lamination, I can say Commemorative deck is less glaring compared to the ORW.

Wow - that's some difference. Is the lamination slick at all ?