Tarot de Paris (17th Century)

Le Fanu

Bernice said:
Could this mean that the artist/cardmaker had never actually seen the Pope (in his chair)? The pope being in Italy, the card-maker presumably in France..... were (are) his images second-hand knowledge of the then current conditions in Italy?
Ahhh, but weren't the Popes in Avignon, Provence? I've been to the Papal Palace in Avignon and I don't know what year they left...
 

Bernice

Le Fanu: Ahhh, but weren't the Popes in Avignon, Provence? I've been to the Papal Palace in Avignon and I don't know what year they left...
There you have me Le Fanu :)
The Pope in this deck is so different - stigmata instead of crosses on his hands..... and a sphinx. What sort of person would portray a Pope in this way. It seems to be more of a 'meaningful representation' than a visual/factual one.

Bee :)
 

Moonbow

Andy's Playing Cards is a great site for this deck:

http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards59.htm

Firemaiden has the links in the first post. I need to re-read the site and also Kwaw's wonderful post. What strikes me, especially with the statue of the Madonna is that perhaps the sphinx was more to ward off the Devil, rather like gargoyles scared off evil spirits.
 

kwaw

The Geoffroy pope also has the double ring (doughnut like pattern) on the the back of the popes hand/glove - possibly also in reference to stigmata though without the red 'blood' like stencilling of the Paris. Possibly the 'stigmata' associate him with the first Pope St. Peter who was also crucified. (The double ring also was used to identify figures in Christian art as Jewish, not necessarily a contradition here if the figure is symbolic of the first Pope, St Peter, who was of course Jewish).

Decorative figures or holy names may also be found in round medalion shapes embroidered on the back of the Pope's glove, for example see photos here:

http://dappledphotos.blogspot.com/2006/04/episcopal-gloves.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cQ2xhpZfenk/STvHXQSi2RI/AAAAAAAADzY/N1LrHR5R8bE/s400/gloves+i.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cQ2xhpZfenk/STxVrE9ZuyI/AAAAAAAADzw/rfVt5kUdsfQ/s400/white+glove.JPG
 

Bernice

Kwaw: The Geoffroy pope also has the double ring (doughnut like pattern) on the the back of the popes hand/glove - possibly also in reference to stigmata though without the red 'blood' like stencilling of the Paris. Possibly the 'stigmata' associate him with the first Pope St. Peter who was also crucified. (The double ring also was used to identify figures in Christian art as Jewish, not necessarily a contradition here if the figure is symbolic of the first Pope, St Peter, who was of course Jewish).

Decorative figures or holy names may also be found in round medalion shapes embroidered on the back of the Pope's glove,...
....."possibly associated with St Peter, first Pope". That would also be one explanation for him not sitting on the Pope-Chair. And I never knew about the circular embroidery on the gloves kwaw. I just saw the red blobs and thought of stigmata. .... sounds like it could very well be Peter (With a sphinx).

Kwaw, do you have a personal idea for the way this image is depicted?

Bee :)
 

Bernice

Bernice said:
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P.S. I'm quite taken with temperance - putting out a fire!

Bee :)
Is this the only deck with Temperance having only one container/jug, and putting out a fire?

Well, I suppose that water 'tempers' fire - in the physical world. Isn't that graphic!

Bee :)
 

kwaw

I love all the little faces the artist includes, the way the fools hat forms the shape of another face at his back for example; the figures on the popesses chair and on the chair of the serenader in the moon card. And the hell's mouth head of card XVI is fantastic...
 

Bernice

A Paris desk restoration....?

Ladies and gentlemen,

There is now a thread about the possible restoration of this intriguing deck in the Tarot Deck Creation forum, please post any comments and enquires about it in that thread:

Restoring the Tarot de Paris (17th century) ?

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=126746



Bernice.
____________________________
Moderator:- Historical Research, Marseilles & Other Early Decks.
 

Bernice

Kwaw: ......the way the fools hat forms the shape of another face at his back for example....
I also saw that and wondered about it - looks a bit oriental doesn't it.
And what on earth is that at his left shoulder/chest? I've sharpened that area and enlarged it, could be a cat perched there? (Looks a bit fluffy...).

Bee :)
 

Moonbow

Justice with two faces is unusual. I've seen Prudence depicted in this way on occasions but not Justice before. I wonder how that came about, and whether any other decks of a similar time have the same image. Certainly the Veiville and Noblet don't. Does anyone know of other images where Justice has two faces? I read that the two faces of Prudence represents looking into the past and the future, but what is the meaning for Justice?