Colours of Paul Marteau's Tarot de Marseille deck

As you may know, Paul Marteau's version of the Conver Tarot de Marseille was first published by Grimaud in or around 1930. It contains a colour selection and card colour scheme that, as far as I know, is different from the colour selection and card colour scheme of any pre-1930 TdM deck, including

- the 1760-61 Conver decks (those reproduced in the Héron and LoScarabeo TdM decks), or

- the limited colour palette Conver decks (e.g., those reproduced in the Camoin Bicentennial edition), or

- the TdM deck used by Joseph Maxwell in writing his 19th century book from France on the tarot.

The Marteau deck can be seen today in the Tarot de Marseille deck published by Grimaud, the Tarot de Marseille deck published by Dusserre, and in the large colour plates of Paul Marteau's out-of-print book _Le Tarot de Marseille_. Marteau's book has appeared in various editions, the first one dating from the 1940s.

The mystery regarding Marteau's colour selection and card colour scheme is whether there is, in fact, any pre-1930 Tarot de Marseille deck whose colour selection and card colour scheme is the same or substantially the same as Marteau's.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I would have to check more carefully, but seem to recall that his principal colour scheme influence came from the Dodal, with some secondary influence from the Conver.

Thanks jm ... I hadn't heard of that.

If you manage to find out more, please keep me posted. Thanks.

Previously I had heard of a Dodal influence on Marteau, but as only regards patterns, rather than colours.

I will have to check later, but thought you may be interested in comparing online the Dodal colours at letarot.com...

These cards, by Flornoy, are true craftsmanship

In the web article RESTORING THE TAROT OF MARSEILLES by Alexander Jodorowsky I stumbled over this sentence:

Until now, the deck which came closest to this ideal was the Tarot of Paul Marteau. However, feature-wise, it is the exact copy of the Tarot of Besançon issued in the late 19th century, which in turn reproduced another Tarot of Besançon issued by Lequart and signed "Arnoult 1748", as computer superimposition shows.

However it is not quite clear to me if featurewise also refers to the color scheme. At least coloring is mentioned in the article, perhaps it helps.

results of checks with Besançon and Dodal decks

Eberhard said:

In the web article RESTORING THE TAROT OF MARSEILLES by Alexander Jodorowsky I stumbled over this sentence:

Until now, the deck which came closest to this ideal was the Tarot of Paul Marteau. However, feature-wise, it is the exact copy of the Tarot of Besançon issued in the late 19th century, which in turn reproduced another Tarot of Besançon issued by Lequart and signed "Arnoult 1748", as computer superimposition shows.

However it is not quite clear to me if featurewise also refers to the color scheme. At least coloring is mentioned in the article, perhaps it helps.

Click to expand...

I checked the Besançon/Arnoult 1748 card scans available on the Camoin site. The colour usage of the various Besançon cards isn't the same as, or even vaguely similar to, the corresponding Marteau 1930 card.

http://www.philippe-camoin.com/tarot_en/tarots_anciens/besancon/regarder_besancon.asp

As well, I checked against the Dodal deck (the three cards at http://letarot.com/pages/05tarot.html) and unfortunately there is no match with the Dodal deck either.

Therefore, the mystery remains. Is there any pre-1930 tarot deck whose colour selection and card colour scheme are the same or substantially the same as that in the Marteau 1930 deck?

I'm looking out of curiousity

Two Paul Marteaux examples

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...rot&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N

http://www.villarevak.org/resource_dis/tdm_gr.html

and there's a listing off of tarotgarden.com that mentions marteaux colors.
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I just deleted the Liguria Piedmont examples--too many differences in color and positioning, they are not relevant.

Mari H.

An odd commentary from a fan of Fournier decks...

http://translate.google.com/transla...arch?q=fournier+tarot&start=70&hl=en&lr=&sa=N

The pertinent portion is that supposedly the limited color illustrations are suggested to have been the prints used in Paul Marteaux's text. They look like the Grimaud Ancient Tarots scans on the website to me...I haven't seen any French Paul Marteaux texts, so cannot be certain they are the same tarots.

I just received from Tarotgarden.com, the Basque Country Tarot, which was issued in 1991 on the 75th anniversary of the Fournier anniversary. A pleasant surprise was that some of the instructions were attributed to Paul Marteaux and it was translated into English, among other languages. This was part of the Basque Country Tarot, which to me has lovely pips and courts, but much newer flavor in the style of the majors.

Maybe that's good news to those who just want a few Marseilles-style hints in English?

Regards,

Cerulean

Marteau rocks!

Cerulean said:

http://translate.google.com/transla...arch?q=fournier+tarot&start=70&hl=en&lr=&sa=N

The pertinent portion is that supposedly the limited color illustrations are suggested to have been the prints used in Paul Marteaux's text.

Click to expand...

All I can say is, if you go to that (translated) website and compare the simply colored Marteau VIII LaJustice with the multicolored one below it (Jadorowski?), one is caricature and one a true symbol. The multicolored ‘improvement’ seems gaudy nonsense to me (even though I love the color green): it looks more like a dandy than a judge. Its most destructive aspect is loss of the yellow chair-back and sword: this is the trump of the Corn Spirit, fer krise sake (as in the hot Japanese drink), F-the-alder, whose ‘head’ or detachable kernel so to speak is samekh. It is uprightness doing justice to each seed, not some dandy up there lording it over us. This is Bran the Blessed!

I am of the decided opinion Marteau comes closer to the (symbolically) correct, original coloration than any others before or after, hence I am deeply interested in the question posed at the start of this thread.

Is the limited color ones the Grimaud? That was my question

1. Sorry that I wasn't clear:

Here's the quote:
"This version with little variety of colors is the one that Paul Marteaux used to write his book "the Tarot of Marseilles":

and scans of what looks to be the Grimaud Marseilles follow, before the 'rectified' version.

I don't have the Paul Marteaux text, so I don't know if the Grimaud version is used as illustrations in any or all current books of Marteaux available. That's one question...I see Rusty Neon's first post that he does have the Grimaud and Paul Marteaux in his books/resources and it's in color plates of an out of print Marteaux text.

2. I do know my Basque Country Tarot has layout instructions for one spread that is attributed to Paul Marteaux and it is written in English. If you or anyone does have Paul Marteaux texts and meanings and illustrations, I'd be glad to type a sample of what I have...and someone can tell us if the Marseilles layout or meanings listed in my Fournier text are similar to your French texts. I'll be glad to do this in a separate thread.

That would be good news because it means some Marseilles fans might also obtain instructions with Marteaux instructions in translation.

Best regards,

Cerulean

P.S. My spelling of Marteaux probably needs to be corrected and I'll edit as I check through what I can find...I will also be obtaining a Fournier Museum catalog through abebooks soon--supposedly they have color plates-- so I'm checking to see if they have pre-1930 Grimaud Marseilles. The House of Grimaud bought the stock of the Lismon Etteilla II deck in 1890 and reissued designs with different colors throughout the 20th century, so yes, I'm also interested if something similar to their version of the Marseilles.