X La Rove de Fortvne

For me it isn t a sphinx but a Gryphon (Griffin).
I see it as a Gryphon specially on Conver and Chosson deck.
At Medieval times it s was a symbol of Jesus Christ.
So I could see it ruling the wheel.

Eugim

kwaw said:

Strange how it has come to mean logic and cleverness; it was a symbol of stupidity and folly, which if it is a sphynx on the TdM wheel would place it in the same sort of iconography context of donkeys and ass eared beings that you find on wheels.

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Cleverness is probably a better word.

I thought the sphinx was often a symbol of the guardian of mysteries; of tombs; the riddle of the Sphinx and Oedipus. At any rate, it's clear that Camoin is taking it as such.

Paul said:

At any rate, it's clear that Camoin is taking it as such.

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Maybe so, but if it is a sphinx, then I think linked with the wheel of fortune its significance lies in its relation to ignorance, folly and vanity (corresponding to other emblems of folly associated with the wheel such as fools, asses, ass eared kings and monkeys).

In his lecture on psalm 119:144 (The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.) 1513/14 Martin Luther interpreted the Sphinx as "murderous ignorance" that kills those who do not understand the testimonies of God, i.e., divine scripture.

The Sphinx is also taken as an emblem of ignorance by Alciato:

http://www.mun.ca/alciato/e188.html

The Sphinx is also compared with Satan:

“Satan is the true Sphinx, who hath the face of a woman to entice and deceive, the claws of a Lion to tear us, and the wings of a bird to show how nimble he is to assault us; he lives upon the spoil of souls, as sphinx did upon the bodies; he did for many ages abuse and delude the Gentiles by his Priests and Wizards, with riddles and ambiguous oracles: there is no way to overcome him, but by hearkening to the counsel of Minerva, as Oedipus did; that is, by following the counsel of Christ, who is the wisdom of the Father; by this he shall be destroyed, and we undeceived.”

Alexander Ross Mystagogus Poeticus or the Muses Interpreter (London, 1648), p.393.

The use of the sphinx therefore could be linked to post-reformation polemics.

X

O Lady Luck
You don't give a f**k
Just keep on turning the screw.
Why must you chuck
Me down in the muck
And be such a traitorous shrew?

I have no writing on the wall
Or a fortune-tellers call
To guide me in this affliction.
You roll the ball
And watch me fall
Into the vice of my addiction.

Again today, I lost a score,
Was left with nothing at the door:
Must you always take a measure?
Share your charms with me once more,
Be my winner’s lucky whore
In the palaces of pleasure.

With a turning of the dice
You could rid me of this strife
And bitter resentment;
Roll for me some highs
And I'll praise you all my life
And have contentment.

But if you persist
And refuse to desist
From pursuing my descent;
Then keep taking the piss
While I have it to give
That too will soon be spent.

I just read through some of the various takes on this card. Obviously, The Wheel has a depth of meaning which lends itself to a wide range of interpretation. Sacred numerology was often blended into the arts in the medieval period. Here's another insight I've found in the card:

As The Wheel has been placed in a pivotal position in the middle of the deck, we might see some of the cards "transmigrated" through the deck by combining their numbers. Let me explain. If we take The Magician (I), for example, and send him through a migration around the Wheel (X), he ends up at Force, numbered XI (I + X = XI). The associations between the two may be open to interpretation. Perhaps The Magician has to learn the lessons of Force, or personal power, in order to progress further on his quest. In another turn of the Wheel, we find him at a spiritual place at The World (XI + X = XXI). Here, personal fortitude has surrendered to the spritual laws of the universe, where one finds enlightenment and peace.

I have found interesting connections with other cards by using the same process. For example, The Pope (V) becomes The Devil, XV (V + X = XV). This might make sense in a culture where the pope, as the representative of the orthodox church, was seen by many people as oppressive. The Beguins of the late 13th and early 14th century actually referred to the pope as the anti-christ. This attitude was carried on by others. Renaisannce and Protestant movements questioned papal authority, both spiritually and politically.

Other cards could have interesting associations within this "transmigration" theme. The Lovers (VI) are found falling from the Tower (X+VI). Is this a dissolusion of their marriage? The Emperor (IIII) must find Temperance (X+IIII) in order to rule properly. The Popess (II), as a heretic of the church, is hung upside down in The Hangman (X + II). The Hermit (VIII) is enlightened in The Sun (X + XIIII).

I haven't figured out how all the cards are necessarily associated this way, but I thought it was an interesting expression of numerology chosen for the cards.

foolish: ...Perhaps The Magician has to learn the lessons of Force, or personal power, in order to progress further on his quest. In another turn of the Wheel, we find him at a spiritual place at The World (XI + X = XXI). Here, personal fortitude has surrendered to the spritual laws of the universe, where one finds enlightenment and peace.

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But the Bateleur isn't on a journey in the marseille decks.....?


Bee.

Bernice said:

But the Bateleur isn't on a journey in the marseille decks.....?


Bee.

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That's right - he's stood behind his bench selling whatever it is he's selling...

If there is a journeyman it is the fool - who is walking, or the charioteer?
Not sure if the hermit is walking or standing, holding up a lamp to... ?

Actually, my take on The Bateleur is that he is a representative of the Church - possibly a priest (see my thread on "Who is The Bateleur" http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152530 in this section). In this sense, he also represents someone involved in a spiritual quest. In the context of those on the fringes of orthodoxy, it is perhaps suggestive of the fact that the Church took a "forceful" approach to bringing its flock back into the fold - i.e the Inquisition, but in the end, it (and its clergy) will have to take a more spiritual path to reach its goal.

foolish said:

Actually, my take on The Bateleur is that he is a representative of the Church - possibly a priest (see my thread on "Who is The Bateleur" http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152530 in this section).

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I see him more as Adam, fallen, a man of vice (below the devil in 3x7 layout) and the Charioteer as man taken on the clothes of the second Adam, christ, a man of virtue and perfect love (of God and Man), from which virtue arises (the middle rank of 3x7, defined beginning, middle and end by the virtue cards - from perfect love comes perfect virtue, as St. Augustine said, that allow us sustain the viscitudes of life).

He may be seen, I think, as a parody of a priest:

quote:
About whom we complain and on what evidence. Who invented the game? I answer upon the origins of three kinds of games of chance, dice, cards and triumphs. All these St. Thomas and many others agree were invented by the devil and explain it in this manner. For in the early church the Bishop of a community formed parish churches and chapels, so that each community had its bishop and parish priests and chaplains and collected holy relics of the Saints and consecrated the altars and the chalices and the hosts. And all the faithful congregated together at the churches in large numbers to celebrated Christ’s birth. And of such magnitude was their divine praise, that by their songs and organs the air and the whole universe was filled with praises. And from thence the spirits fled to the lower regions where the great Lucifer asked them why so many had fled the light. Thereupon a demon named Azarus arose and explained why they had fled. “But”, he added, “if you have the strength to obey me, I shall overturn them to forswear God and love yourself.” “And what will you do?' Lucifer asked. “I shall set up”, Azarus replied, “in the towns and the encampments and the villages the bishopric of the gambling house, and for bishop a true cheat. On the night of the Nativity more people will come to our church than to God’s. Our parishes will be the tavern, the tavern keeper our priests, the wine cellar our chapel, the cellarman our chaplain. Our sacristy will be the house bank, dice made of animal bones our holy relics, the cards our images, the bench our altar, the playing table our holy paten, the goblet of wine our chalice, a gold coin our host, the dice will be the Missal, whose pages are the cards and triumphs.”
end quote

see translation of Steele Sermon here:
http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Sermones_de_Ludo_Cum_Aliis

Priest, parody or otherwise the bateleur - relying on illustration rather than the vagaries of interpretation - is portrayed as standing, the fool and charioteer are journeying.

Plus - don't characters on the wheel wear asses ears, like the fool? Why do we connect them with the bateleur?

I see the sequence as a Mirror of Love - of Cupidatas in the first rank (the lover), virtue as the perfection of love in the second rank and caritas, the love of G-d in the last (last judgment - defined as the exemplar of caritas, G-ds love, in Augustin theology). The theme of love is introduced by fool and magician as in Plato:

quote
"And as his parentage is, so also are his fortunes. In the first place he is always poor, and anything but tender and fair, as the many imagine him; and he is rough and squalid, and has no shoes, nor a house to dwell in; on the bare earth exposed he lies under the open heaven, in-the streets, or at the doors of houses, taking his rest; and like his mother he is always in distress.

"Like his father too, whom he also partly resembles, he is always plotting against the fair and good; he is bold, enterprising, strong, a mighty hunter, always weaving some intrigue or other, keen in the pursuit of wisdom, fertile in resources; a philosopher at all times, terrible as an magician, wizard, sophist. He is by nature neither mortal nor immortal, but alive and flourishing at one moment when he is in plenty, and dead at another moment, and again alive by reason of his father's nature. But that which is always flowing in is always flowing out, and so he is never in want and never in wealth; and, further, he is in a mean between ignorance and knowledge."

end quote from The Symposium by Plato.