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Christine  Christine is offline
Join Date: 30 Aug 2003
Location: Oregon USA
Posts: 80
Angel seals

Mary, not only is that seal on the Tavaglione 2 of Disks, but it's also on the Papus 2 of Disks.

That's the location which is important to this discussion. Why did Papus attribute these seals to Etteilla in his book on Etteilla's cards? This is the question we have to answer. I have already discussed with Mary in private the fact that the Elus Cohens and Martinists had associated this group of angels with the Pips, long before Levi, Papus, and the rest of the latecomers. So why is Papus bringing these up in context of Etteilla?

Mary has found one set of seals for these angels, though those are actually the "mirror image demons" with the same astrological degrees. Certainly, we don't find these seals on Etteilla's pack, or Papus' pack either. But the seals in question, the ones that ARE on the Papus pack, and tacitly attributed to Etteilla, and which we find being an item of focus among the Elus Cohens and Martinists (notice, I didn't say Masons!), these are the things we need to discover more about before we decide that Etteilla's 2 of coins isn't a reflection of this active tradition being practiced all around him.

Here's where you lose me, Mary: You say "The Papus-Goulinat 2 of Coins does seem to be the missing link between the Etteilla and Tavaglione, as it has the name Poiel on it in Hebrew, but it doesn't mean that Etteilla made the link to the Shem Angels." No, it means that Papus is directly saying that Etteilla made the link to the Shem Angels! Poiel is one of the Shem angels, you'll find him nowhere else!

Once you place a single Angel onto a single Pip, then you have the means to see how the whole sequence falls into the four suits. Are there any other Angel names on the Papus-Goulinat pips? To me, the question is -- Why did Papus do that? What was he trying to tell us? Etteilla himself names out the Intelligences, then Papus puts them on the Pips. Coincidence? You'll have to convince me further.

And by the way, what is the image on that 2 of Disks? It's the Vesica Pisces that is the defining identity of this image! It totally doesn't matter whether it's vertical or horizontal, the message is the same. That's the very mathe-magic that I was saying earlier links the Pythagorean and the Kabbalistic mathematical matrix. I'll try to scan those two pages from Fideler tomorrow for you.
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