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Ronia  Ronia is offline
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Join Date: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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Ronia 

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
When we get to Stages 3 & 4 I'll only be using whole sign houses because that would have been what they used during most of the Hellenistic period.
OK, I got it now. 

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
This situation is something I need to research from the Hellenistic point of view. It would be very interesting to see how they resolved it.
Yes, I find it interesting too. Which would prevail according to them Ė the sign trine or the degree applying square but in another signÖ

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
It's not so much that they are shaky as that the planets are not'automatons ' They don't always behave in a completely consistent manner delivering a completly consistent 'product'. Their core might remain the same but their expression can and is modified by circumsances (as shown in the chart)
Agree. Just ancients sometimes sound a bit ultimative, thatís why Iím thinking it over.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Actually I'm a very giving and a very patient person (which is something we share so it must relate back to that Saturn in Leo placement) it's just that instinctively my first move is 'backwards' rather than 'forwards' - I think it's an instinctive reaction (Saturn is in close opposition to my Moon, which he rules.
Interesting that not only your Saturn is in Leo too but it also has a difficult relationship with your MoonÖ Iím starting to think if itís possible that this is the key to the door.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Don't be sorry, your helping - by making me answer these questions I'm forced to consider things from a Hellenisitic point of view - please carry on, I find your observations both interesting in their own right and helpful.
Iím glad my digging is helpful and thanks for all the explanations! 

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
I think that the analysis suggests that you need fortune to get through life without too many problems. Saturn is still trying to steer the ship but he's having to do it from a difficult position where he can't see clearly. He's doing his best but he needs some help to spot the opportunities or avoid the perils, and that's where Venus should assist.
WellÖ Is there a person out there who doesnít need fortune to do well in life? I donít think so. I think we all need some luck to really do well. If we want to, of course.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Well as a child you don't think of the future consequences of your actions as a regular part of your decisions' The hospital treatment is in a sense beside the point as the accident has already happened, fortune has struck
Yes, true.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
On your adult experience, I think we learn from our experiences, and your strategies are very much designed to minimize the need to depend on Fortune. I'm not sure Hellenistic Astrology allows for that adaption process, it seems to assume that you won't adapt your behaviour in the light of past experiences. Mind you I know some people who don't adapt.
Oddly enough, I started considering myself a lucky person only after I grew up and started planning more. LOL I have another guess here and itís related to Mercury conjunct the Lot. It has nothing to do with Hellenistic astrology but it has to do with the mind Ė when I started thinking of myself as a lucky person, things started to work out although sometimes take quite a bit of time. Coincidence or not, but itís a fact. Now, thatís more about modern psychology but exists in the chart.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
No we're just considering Venus as ruler of the Lot of Fortune' the planet that should help you devise strategies to maximise opportunity and avoid peril. She's not well placed for that role. Oddly Saturn does sextile the Lot of Fortune, and Saturn is very much the planet of ldiscipline, ong term planning, analysing and patience...all the qualities that you have cited. There's no link between Venus and Saturn by configuration which would be a good indicator of those qualities coming into play in the opportunities and perils anticipation. However some way or other that sextile with the Lot, seems to inject those qualities into your life.
These are also popular qualities for Scorpio Suns too. How do we know itís Saturn playing and not the Scorpio Sun? Iím not sure.




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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Mars is a masculine planet which is why I used the masculine pronoun but I also typed Mercury when I meant Mars as the Bound Lord, I admit that' was confusing So again for the record Mars is Domicile Lord of the Sun and therefore the Oikodespotes (Managing Director) and Mars is also the Bound Lord of the Sun. As to to many officers, yes I agree ....especially with a crew of 7 LOL
Ah, OK, I got the Mars part now. It does look like each crew member is an officer under cover. LOL

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
The Hellenistic view is that life is a struggle between fortune, what befalls you and your attempts to influence the world around you - Spirit. You've had two significant Mars periods in your life to date
In terms of your own attempts to influence the world around you (Spirit), you had a Mars period from birth through to August 1990.
In terms of things that befall you or health issues (fortune) you had a Mars period from September 1983 through to June 1998. There's an overlap of about 6 years there. What were the flavour those six years.?
Considering the fact that these were my child years, not very happy overall. There were, of course, happier times (especially the year of my first Jupiter return, this one was great!) but I didnít have a happy childhood as per the issues with close women I wrote about. On top of that in September 1989 I lost the person who was my only parent for real and that was devastating. I fell into depression for a long time, also I found myself penniless at a very early age. But health issues were earlier, prior to 1983, when I was a baby and a very small child. When this 1983 period started I was already involved in sports. My injuries didnít start immediately and werenít worse than other peopleís actually, they just became too many with the time (due to my own desire and ambition to push myself harder).

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
For the last 8 years of your Mars (fortune) period, you were in a Venus (spirit) period. Was that 8 years better than the preceding six years?
Thatís from 1990 to 1998? The beginning was bad, I was still experiencing depression. And the consequences of the death of this person left a mark for many years to come, so it wasnít a happy period. I was still going to school, doing sports thoughÖ Deepening problems with close women around and I started being rebellious which brought even bigger problems but made me happy actually. LOL I met my first boyfriend during this period too, I think it was 1991 or 1992. This was a very difficult but very meaningful relationship. Then in 1993 I finished school, failed to enroll in the university, started working instead and got enrolled next year, 1994. The rest is part of the employment history I sent you before. If these 8 years were better than the previous ones Ė yes, since the most important person fro me died in the previous period, obviously this one was better, despite all the problems. But overall my childhood and youth years were not happy times.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
From 1998 to 2008 you had a Jupiter period in terms of fortune, or what befell you.
Looks like this one has been much happier overall. Although it had its challenges (I guess sub periods were playing there, like a very tough break up in 2003, new problems with the well known to me women in 2003-2004), it still brought many happy events and my second Jupiter return and Saturn return were in this period and it was glorious time in all departments.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
From 2018 (5 years away) you will enter a 25 year Lunar period in terms of Spirit.
I hope itís good.

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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Hellenistic Astrology does the 'heavy' but through recurring time periods. Each of the periods I mentioned above will have sub periods where there may be shifts of emphasis, and periods where Mars is actually to the fore, or for that matter Venus or Jupiter - they might not always show up as transits but they set the tone. Or so those Astrologers believed.
Thatís interestingÖ So, they didnít pay much attention to the transits? HmÖ
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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
I must admit I rushed that part, taking the list from Delphic Oracle, The crux of the matter is that the 'ruler of the chart' doesn't have to be the 'ruler of the Ascendant' and indeed right the way through the traditional period there were attempts to identify the 'Almuten of the Chart' or the ' Lord of the Geniture' - the planet that will be the most powerful or influential. The ruler of the Ascendant is not debarred from being the strongest planet but it's by no means guaranteed.
Iíve been told Mars is the Almuten of my chart. But because I mainly look at transits, progressions and directions, I havenít been able to put him even close to Saturn and even Jupiter in terms of effect on my life. Even now heís been doing many aspects by transit and heís making aspects by progressions and directions, weíll see what heíll produce this time.
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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Now I put a question mark after the Mars/Moon pairing because I wanted your view on that pairing.
OK, but I donít understand how I should see them? I got a bit lost in all these captains and officers. What are Moon and Mars supposed to do? Steer the ship? I donít think Mars is so powerful, I donít know. As about the MoonÖ I do feel her, of course, Iíve always thought sheís one of the strongest planets in my chart. I actually think sheís only competing with the Sun (I put aside Saturn for the moment as heís strongly felt by transits but heís never been in conflict with my Sun, with my core desires, despite their square). I know the Sun is not strong based on these analyses but thatís how Iíve felt it. If Mars injects power in the Sun through the trineÖ may be. May be Mars is not playing with the Moon so much as with the Sun while the Sun and the Moon share the same values but have a bit of an uneasy relationshipÖ A bit like a square in synastry where there is attraction but there is also friction. Canít live with or without you, kind ofÖ
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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Mars/Saturn might have been a possible pairing too. especially as you are now in a Saturn 'fortune' period through to 2027.
Iím too emotional and too much depending on intuition and feelings for this pair to be my captains, IMHO. There must be a strong female planet somewhere in the steering team.
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