View Single Post
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Ronia Livelihood - 1


For this issue of Livelihood I have used the second and tenth houses, any planets in them, and configurations to those planets and their rulers and configurations to them. Tenth House - contains Mercury and Lot of Fortune. (ruler Venus) and the Second contains no planets at all (ruler Saturn). I was going to discuss the Lots referred to but I will leave that to the next post with commentary.

I have organised the material by author but left there words largely unchanged. I have added some explanatory comments but have left issues of interpretation and especially possible actions to deal with the issues raised to a later post.. I must repeat the warning that the language used is such as would be considered inappropriate by a Modern Astrologer (with good reason) however given Ronia's comments on the previous quote I supplied I think it picked up something that no modern writer is likely to consider and that might mean that valuable information goes without any consideration at all or discussion with the person concerned.

I take most of these statements to be the extremes that could be expected and, where more than one thing is mentioned, a series of possible examples, rather than a list of things that will happen. It's also worth remembering that the people who likely consulted an Astrologer, were not living average lives but were in significant positions of power and/or that Astrologersalso used 'celebrity horoscopes' much like modern writers do.

Rhetorius (c 500-600 CE)

On the tenth house:

Mercury in the MC, matutine (Morning Star) will indicate admirable and splendid actions for it will be, when they are aspected by one of the stars of sect, great rulers, or those entrusted with the affairs of cities or kingdoms or great men, trustworth, good, discriminating. But opposed by Mars they will be unsuccessful in advancement and they will have their share of flights.

There is a sextile from one of the planets of sect, Saturn, but also there is a square from Mars. The obvious question being whether Mars here has the same effect as through opposition. Mars is the out of sect malefic, so there may be trouble there.

The Lot of Fortune in the tenth makes for very fortunate persons unless it or it's ruler are afflicted. The ruler of the ninth being in the MC makes for good fortune abroad. The Lot is squared by Mars. and sextiled by Saturn.

Mercury is the ruler of the ninth.

On the Second House

... if a malefic beholds it by opposition or square or conjunction it signifies the loss of livelihood of the native.

Now Saturn opposes the second House from the eighth. Modern writers don't use aspects to empty houses but the Hellenisitic Astroloers did. Saturn however is the malefic of sect and might be better behaved than this. He goes on to say that if the second is the domicile (sign) of Saturn that such loss of livelihood is due to old people, or for the sake of land or inheritance, or the affairs of the dead or worthless people.

Rhetorius makes reference to a Lot of Livelihiood (ASC+ Cusp of second - Lord 2)

This Lot actually falls in the middle of Cancer, the Seventh house of the chart - so is ruled by the Moon.

On Actions or Occupations.

The key planets are Mercury, Venus and Mars and the key places are the four angles, the succedent houses to them (2,11, 8, 5 and he also includes the sixth. plus the Lot of Fortune and the applicationof the Moon and the star making it's (helical?) rising seven days before or seven days after (Mercury for you). I take these to be in order of priority, so we look at the angles first. Mercury and Mars fall into the angles of the whole sign chart and thus indicate two possible careers, one in a Mercury occupation and one in a Mars.


Rhetorius makes reference to the Lot of Action - I can't find a definition in his work but the most likely one is that given by Dorotheus and cited by Paulus

ASC + Mars - Mercury

This Lot falls into early Libra and is ruled by Venus, it is in the tenth House.


Firmicus Maternus (c 330 CE)

Moon associated with a malefic indicates a mediocre or obscure chart

The Moon is in the same sign as Mars, I'm not sure what he means by 'obscure'

Jupiter and Mercury in opposition attacks those who have had training in learned speech. The native has bad relations with with kings and powerful men because of those that envy them. They either suffer from the death of brothers (and sisters?) are alienated from brotherly affection by quarrels (again I assume this includes sisters) or encounter homicidal hatred from blood kin.

The statements here seem to be quite extreme - but the issue of 'envy' arises again, as a possible reason for problems. I'd be interested in your take on the last part of this delineation - does it in any way reflect your life?

If Mars and Mercury are in square aspect and Mars holds the superior position (earlier in the zodiac) it weakens thenativewith constant pains, attacks all his occupations with reverses, makes him the victim of evil rumours.

The statement that you saw as being a reasonable reflection in the previous posts.

Jupiter and Mars in square aspect with Jupiter holding the superior position indicate great fame, good reputation and high position. But they are never able to preserve their paternal inheritance; they will have chlidren late and suffer constant grief from accidents to children.

Again this seems extreme but it does indicate both success and loss.

Saturn trine Jupiter will be very good if both in good places or their own signs. But less so in other places and even less so if Mars is in a threatening aspect.

Saturn rules your Ascendant and so has a role to play. It also is in aspect to Mercury in the tenth, confirming the role.


Saturn square Sun, with Saturn on the right - demotion and loss of position also contraction of the body from muscular deformity.

Saturn square Mercury with Saturn in the superior position indicates exile from the day of birth, they weaken all planning and thought processes, and hinder activities. The native will carry out adminstrative duties but in a position of subjection to another. They will suffer seriously from the attacks of the envious.

This also raises the issue of loss of position because of attacks from the envious. Exile was usually seen as being very negative, because you are no longer in your own city with your own relatives. You don't have any citizen rights abroad and you wont be supported if things go wrong. Foreign places were generally seen as bad and the home city was generally seen as good.


[b]Vettius Valens (c 175 CE)

If the stars are in opposition(Mercury and Venus), they bring even greater slander, and men are at cross purposes and suffer ups and downs. If the stars are in opposition in the Bad Daimon, men will be crushed by the supreme authority, they will feel the effects o f mass insurrections, and they will have few brothers, or will have quarrels with their brothers, children, or relatives

I've cited this because it contains an extra qualification, compared to Firmicus. The second sentence refers to the 'Bad Daimon' that is the House of the Bad Spirit - the twelfth. So he is seeing the problems with family as being activated if the opposition includes the twelfth house. Yours does not.


The 11th Place <Relative to the Lot of > Fortune and its Influence on Prosperity. We have found the 11th Place <relative to the Lot> of Fortune to be the Place of Accomplishment, the bestower of property and goods, especially if benefics are in this Place or in aspect. ........Saturn when configured in its proper places makes men rulers of estates and property; if out of place and in the wrong sect it brings disaster, ruin, shipwreck, poverty, and debt.


The eleventh place from Fortune is Leo and in Leo is Saturn. Saturn is not in a good place but is in sect, so I'd see this in a weaker form, simply impeding the good from Saturn's placement.

In the next post I'll look at the Lots and also make some general comments.
Top   #90