Tarot: Does it work? How?

Another old AT'er commemorative bump for fun, eh, Gregory? Got nothing else to do ? I can't believe I missed this discussion. I had in my early days on AT (2002 or so) posed a similar question "do you have to believe in tarot for it to work" ? to which many people, delightfully, replied "no" -- which engendered a really fun flame war.

The original question is wonderful, (Question everything ! Subvert the dominant paradigm !) and brings up all sorts of basic philosophical and probably un-answerable questions about tarot.

How does Tarot work ?
Does tarot work ?
What does "tarot working" look like ?
What does tarot NOT working look like ?

I would like to say I think the tarot "does NOT work". But the tarot 'NOT working", looks just about the same as the tarot "working" ... sort of like how NOT believing in God amounts to pretty much the same thing as believing in God, if that God is un-nameable, invisible, everywhere, and hence ... alas, nowhere.

No, the tarot does not work, and no, there is no intelligent entity in a blue suit (with moon boots) sitting on a white cloud lining up the cards.

Yes, when I turn over a card in response to a question (ANY question : "how many fingers am I holding up ?" "Why is there air ?" "Does Johnny love me ?" "Who am I" "What's fer breakfast ?" ** see answers below) chances are --- the card I turn over will strike some incredible (to me) resonance with the question. But if not ? There is most usually at least SOME kind of meaning that can be teased out, if ever so tenuously.


________________
** Answers to above questions : (read upside down).

1) how many fingers am I holding up ? => XII -- "twelve" or, "I can't commit to that right now"

2) "Why is there air ? = Two of Wands : "to encircle the globe."

3) "Does Johnny love me ?" => Queen of Cups reversed : "He doesn't know you exist."

4) "Who am I ?" => five of wands Rx : "an iconoclast."

5) "What's fer breakfast ? => 9 of cups : "your heart's desire."

gregory said:

Well - we have loads of new people here since the last post. Any new views ? It still seems to work for me - but I have NO idea how.

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I think if you look too closely at *how* something works, it stops working. Scientists seem to think that observed scien tific phenomena work differently under observation to when they are not under observation. Someone concentrating on muscular movements at the gym or during dance who thinks about their body very often finds their skill deserting them until they forget about it and go back into automatic mode. And how many of us actually *think* about braking, accelerating, turning or changing gear in a car? - we don't, it's all automated through the limbic system, and when it isn't yet (as an inexperienced driver) and we are thinking about what we do, we are not so good at it.

So too, Tarot. If you just go and do it, it works, If you analyse it and try and form hypotheses about its mechanics, it becomes stilted and awkward if not downright inaccurate, like a learner's driving or a suddenly-selfconscious dancer's dancing.

Wow, how did this old thread resurrect? The good news is that it did resurface because it's interesting re-reading it. The bad news is that I know less about how it works now than what I thought I knew in 2005.

Humans have this bad habit of finding something new and beautiful and then tearing it apart to see how it works. Then they can't put it back together again so it doesn't work anymore.

I don't know how Tarot works and I don't really care how. I just know with even more certainty than I had in 2005 that it does work and that's good enough for me.

nisaba said:

I think if you look too closely at *how* something works, it stops working. Scientists seem to think that observed scien tific phenomena work differently under observation to when they are not under observation. Someone concentrating on muscular movements at the gym or during dance who thinks about their body very often finds their skill deserting them until they forget about it and go back into automatic mode. And how many of us actually *think* about braking, accelerating, turning or changing gear in a car? - we don't, it's all automated through the limbic system, and when it isn't yet (as an inexperienced driver) and we are thinking about what we do, we are not so good at it.

So too, Tarot. If you just go and do it, it works, If you analyse it and try and form hypotheses about its mechanics, it becomes stilted and awkward if not downright inaccurate, like a learner's driving or a suddenly-selfconscious dancer's dancing.

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This is a brilliant answer.

Grizabella said:

Humans have this bad habit of finding something new and beautiful and then tearing it apart to see how it works. Then they can't put it back together again so it doesn't work anymore.

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And Grizabella, that was a great point, as well!

I am also interested in how long this question floats around! I guess it will always be asked.

And anyways, I think it is personal - it either works to help you puzzle things out, or it doesn't. There are so many divinatory systems to choose from - if tarot does not work for one, why not use another? I really believe it is all down to how one's brain and intuition gets messages...tarot is just a key, and if you happen to have the corresponding lock, then it is unbeatable.

So - I've just cut and pasted my answer here, from the recent thread "Amazed at the effectiveness of Tarot - how does it work?"


Is it the subconscious mind in revelation? Is it messages from the angels? Is it your spirit guides whispering in your ear? Your "Higher Self" talking? Demons that have decided to "enable" you? Is it magick? Is it...The God/dess
???
When people ask - I tell them it's the subconscious - but in my opinion it's all of the above, depending on what one believes, and giving space for all things that as yet - we have no proof/explanation for.



Here's my round-up answer:
"Tarot is: A beautiful framework that facilitates the exploration of the subconscious mind. It draws into the conscious realm, insights, possibilities and avenues of action that can be useful, inspirational and fun for the querent. It adds greater colour and magic to life!"
- by Tanga Okondo.

We all seem to agree that "it works", yet as I asked above in a previous decade, -- what does it mean to you that the tarot "works"? What does the tarot "working" look like, as opposed to it "not working" ?

I took apart my dishwasher and couldn't get it back together again. The tarot is 78 separate pieces, no assembly required.

Heya firemaiden!

According to moi:

Tarot "works" if it (a) describes what has happened or is happening now, (b) predicts the future, or (c) says pretty much exactly what the sitter hopes to hear.

To read properly, you can't get too fancy or imaginative--that's just make-believe and projection.

When you read properly, if the cards seem like nonsense, it isn't working.

By these standards, tarot almost always works for me.

I'd add (d) if it offers advice/suggestions which may seem odd or painful or whatever - but WTF you follow up on it - and things work out as a direct result.

(In the case of the dishwasher - "I can't see what that bit is for but since it WILL go back together if I screw it to this bit and it fits - I'll give it a shot - WOW - that did it !")

Lets draw a card!

Hi there!

I've never posted on this forum before but this has got to be the absolute best question ever asked, and one that I've asked myself a million times!

Here is my two cents:

We would all like to know how it "works", and we all seem to agree that it does indeed "work" to some degree, based on our individual point of view on life, the universe, ourselves, and the Tarot in general, etc...

But for me, part of the fun of wondering "how tarot works" is in the wondering itself. It's a bit like looking for the Holy Grail, or seeking to turn lead into gold. Knowing how Tarot works for an avid Tarot lover is the 50 million dollar question isn't it? And how delicious NOT knowing, and how wonderful to wonder! I seek a reply, yet I feel that no reply could truly satisfy me.

The other day I was reading Mary K Greers book on Tarot Reversals and I came across the definition of "Numinous". Numinous she says is "A term used to describe the quality of a thing or event that generates a deep emotional response of awe, fascination, and mystery in those who behold it". And THAT I realise, is what I'm truly looking for. And I find that the Tarot helps me access those fantastic moments more often than any other medium.

And just for the absolute FUN of it, and because the moment any question is taken too seriously, and we take ourselves too seriously, we lose all sense of perspective, I thought I'd ask my beloved "So Below" deck (the deck I am most connected to, and which is like a friend to me) "How does Tarot work?" and I got The Hermit, except it's THAT decks version of the Hermit: a woman enjoying a relaxing hot bath, surrounded by candles, and her hand hangs over the edge of her bath, with water dripping onto some journals/grimoires, and there are like sparkles around her head, and sparkles around her hand...
And what's funny about all this is that if I'm going to ask the Tarot for an answer that I don't have, I may as well ask it this! This is as fun as asking the Tarot "What is the meaning of life?" And THAT'S what I love about the Tarot.

Each one of us can draw a card for the answer to the question, and we'll all get something different, and if you don't believe that you can find some kind of answer by asking the cards (and also because I truly believe that THERE IS NO ONE SINGULAR ANSWER TO SUCH A DEEP QUESTION) then why ask the cards anything at all?

And yes, in some way, that card DID answer my question. Not "why Tarot works", but rather "Why Tarot works for ME". And nothing I could say about it would change anyone elses mind, and I respect that completely.

But what a great topic! Kudos for starting this thread in the first place!

Love to all!

I wrote the following before reading Soniadevi’s post. So please bear with me and also read my reply to her.

nisaba said:

So too, Tarot. If you just go and do it, it works, If you analyse it and try and form hypotheses about its mechanics, it becomes stilted and awkward if not downright inaccurate, like a learner's driving or a suddenly-selfconscious dancer's dancing.

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By applying that logic one would expect car engineers to be bad drivers. But there is no sign that they are. While driving a car they just drive and don’t think about the technical details of how the engine works exactly. Becoming awkwardly self-conscious is a beginner’s problem indeed that should disappear at some stage. The more practice we have using tarot the easier it should become not to think about our theories on how it works while using it.

Otherwise this would be a sign that tarot had nothing to offer but a placebo effect that vanishes once we know the reason for our subjective impression of accuracy.

Grizabella said:

Humans have this bad habit of finding something new and beautiful and then tearing it apart to see how it works. Then they can't put it back together again so it doesn't work anymore.

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Had someone torn apart their favorite deck last night to find the hidden mechanism that makes the right cards come up and then complained that they couldn’t read with the remaining cardboard shred anymore this answer would have been a good one.

But while there is no practical reason to worry why tarot works as long as it does, it does make much sense IMO to think about why it fails if it does. And it does fail sometimes. Well, maybe my real concern here is about being indirectly told to stay dumb in order to enjoy something. This is clearly not an option for me. Trying to find out how things work and getting a better understanding of our environment and/or the whole world is the main reason why we don’t live in the tree anymore. And I am quite happy about that.

Soniadevi said:

But for me, part of the fun of wondering "how tarot works" is in the wondering itself. It's a bit like looking for the Holy Grail, or seeking to turn lead into gold. Knowing how Tarot works for an avid Tarot lover is the 50 million dollar question isn't it? And how delicious NOT knowing, and how wonderful to wonder! I seek a reply, yet I feel that no reply could truly satisfy me.

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This makes perfect sense for me. And putting it this way many of the previous posts make more sense to me too.

The best thing that happens to me when reading tarot is the pleasantly tingling feeling of surprise when another story evolving from a spread appears consistent and meaningful although I don’t feel I contributed anything to it myself. Thinking that this may be just a delusion would indeed spoil the fun in that situation.

Next morning however I will want to know again and I won't be afraid anymore to consider self deception.